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*Official Poll* Balancing Survival - Your thoughts and suggestions

Discussion in 'Survival' started by CommanderHerpDerp, Jul 2, 2014.

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  1. CommanderHerpDerp

    CommanderHerpDerp Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    98
    So I've been tasked with re-balancing most elements of survival, from material costs of blocks, the refining speeds the speeds of certain tools, and am in need of a little community help.

    I have made plans for adjusting most of the material costs of blocks, to make it more realistic and in keeping with the aesthetic of certain blocks (eg. Passage no longer costs x3 an interior wall, because its hollow)

    For the grinder and welder speed, I need the communities thoughts and feelings on how things are currently... And this is the point of this thread, So you guys can leave me your thoughts and suggestions so i have something to base the balancing process on, and know that it will benefit the community and the game as a whole.

    The speeds in question will be changed in the '''Realistic'' setting of the game, and the x3 and x10 options will change accordingly.

    Please vote in the attached poll, and leave your comments below regarding anything particular you'd like to see balancing, or just your opinion on the poll itself.

    Thank you for your cooperation and support in the development of our game :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Dekarian

    Dekarian Trainee Engineer

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    90
    The only balance issue I have right now is the number of thruster components required for large ship thrusters plus the refining speed of platinum. Either the refining speed of platinum needs to be faster or the number of thruster components for large ship thrusters needs to be lower. Building one large ship large thruster in 1/1/1 takes a very long time. Hell, it takes a long time in 1/10/10 for that matter.
     
  3. CommanderHerpDerp

    CommanderHerpDerp Trainee Engineer

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    98
    The thruster components for large ship thrusters have been edited to something more reasonable for those exact reasons :)

    It was pretty impossible to make them without salvaging 'ai' cargo ships.
     
  4. Danzarlo

    Danzarlo Apprentice Engineer

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    182
    Id say the components and weight of lots of blocks needs to be looked into last time i checked an interior block weighed more than a hull block last time i checked correct me if im wrong
     
  5. MrSandman70

    MrSandman70 Trainee Engineer

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    7
    only gripe i have is with the solar panels. takes a rediculous amount of time and resources for a barely usable amount of power. I think build/destruct times on that alone would help balance them out. other than that as tedious as it is i think other times are fine, doesnt make things too easy, but still doable within reason
     
  6. Saint

    Saint Trainee Engineer

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    4
    Faster welders/grinders or perhaps allow ship based welders to work through more layers? Perhaps have a setting and ramp up the energy usage depending on if your doing 1,2,3,4 layers deep.

    As for resources, that Large generator is taking its time to make on my new mother ship, needing 2000 reactor components and its the only item to use Silver so i cant even salvage it from parts I've already hijacked from AI ships
     
  7. YtramX

    YtramX Apprentice Engineer

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    238
    I said yes, but I want to say it should only be for certain items. All times should probably be shaved down slightly, but the excessively long ones are the ones that need a closer shave. I'm looking at you, beacons, solar panels and heavy armor.
     
  8. ApSciLiara

    ApSciLiara Trainee Engineer

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    1
    At the moment, grinding/welding is kiiinda painfully slow, and some of the component sizes are frankly ridiculous. You can carry about 250-odd reactor components in ideal conditions, 10x inventory size with nothing else in your inventory, which makes about 8 trips for reactor components alone. That, to me, is in serious need of a balance pass.
     
  9. Strangelegend

    Strangelegend Trainee Engineer

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    12
    I think they should be made to be upgrade-able at least to be able to weld / grinder at a quicker pace.
     
  10. Poomanchu

    Poomanchu Trainee Engineer

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    53
    Medical components use silver, too, but that's not much help given how rarely they appear.
     
  11. Zak Doyle

    Zak Doyle Trainee Engineer

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    1
    the game is great i think and anyone complaining doesnt have ti play it ill still be playing no matter what im just hoping that there will be planets and, or enemies added in such as life forms ^^
     
  12. Saint

    Saint Trainee Engineer

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    4
    Ah good point solar panels do indeed take way too long, I set a small welding ship to auto weld them and go off to do something else now adays
     
  13. ozarkamax

    ozarkamax Junior Engineer

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    542
    I think welding and grinding needs it's own setting
     
  14. Callum Grant

    Callum Grant Trainee Engineer

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    1
    I think the long welding times on the more advanced things such as solar panels makes perfect sense. HOWEVER, this should be compensated for by having much more powerful ship welders and grinders. Thus when you spend the resources building a ship welder, it actually pays off.

    I also love the idea of being able to ramp up the power on a welder to give it more reach. Currently there is an issue when using a ship welder to build large complex ships, that it often doesn't reach the heart of the ship.

    As an extra thing, it would be awesome if large ship welders had the ability to request components from an assembler (have them built), so then a fully auto assembly line could be made. Just construct the skeleton of the ship and feed through your nice big welder rig.
     
  15. Super86

    Super86 Trainee Engineer

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    1
    I voted "yes", but I think only the ship variants should be faster; the hand-held one is realistically slow. If you want fast building, build yourself a specialized ship!

    Also, completely agree with the comment about the large ship thrusters and the platinum. I don't understand why there is so much difference in refining times for different ores; some of them are desperately slow. Currently, construction of my survival ship is halted precisely as I simply wait to refine enough platinum to build the components for a large thruster, and that's even with 2 refineries! ( https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=267972715 )

    I would give higher priority, however, to general consistency of building materials/block. For example, I can't understand how a simple catwalk has such a high building cost when compared to other components. Also, weight values of blocks seem to be somewhat random.

    Another thing that needs to be looked at are the cargo containers. They should never work in such a way that piling up 27 small cargo containers gives you MORE cargo capacity than a single large one, with the additional advantage of the extra flexibility when building them.

    I'm against increasing the power output of solar panels. If you want to get all your power from them, build large arrays of them; otherwise make a nuclear reactor. They are designed for civilian ships and stations or for backup power, so I don't see the problem of them generating realistically little power.

    And while slighty off-topic, since this poll is related to survival, I'll mention this. I think the number one thing that would add to the survival experience is atmosphere and pressurized ships. For us the fans of realism and engineering, it adds very important considerations and decisions to make when designing our ships, and would add a new and very important dimension to the game.

    Hope to have been constructive with this post!
     
  16. Keith Grimmer

    Keith Grimmer Trainee Engineer

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    1
    Interior walls really need a drastic change in the amount of materials needed to construct, and if they not already, can they be made thruster resistant, cos. Imo, they look perfect for landing platforms in hangers etc.
     
  17. Jas

    Jas Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    443
    what about a multiple options checker? like x1 x3 x10 globally stucked (server side mp, client side ONLY in sp) :)
     
  18. xwhitemousex

    xwhitemousex Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    197
    Solar Panels definitely needs a revisit in terms of (de)-construct times as well as the power benefit. It's been a subject in many threads and the time/resource cost of building them makes them completely inefficient to build. They have only one purpose, and that is acting as a last resort power supply connected to a medlab in case you, for some unexplainable reason given the availability of uranium, should run out of power in your base.

    Besides that they are 100% useless and I get frustrated and annoyed when I have to deconstruct solar panels from AI ships because I know that a) it takes forever and b) the majority of the salvage, ie. panels, are useless and won't be reinstalled anyhow.

    Also, as someone has suggested, the grinder and welders should have their own 1/3/10 settings.
     
  19. cherv-saper

    cherv-saper Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    132
    I think, volume of some components in inventory/storage must be changed - radio-comm components in first place. As it is in reality, range of communication depends of size of antenna, which is a dumb metal, and power - not size - of transmitter...
    But about medical components i cannot comply - sometime on my work i have to move medical analysers - it's really heavy! :)
    And about thruster components - i'm not sure, what they mean and do physically/chemically, but may be better, if required number of them to build thruster should be less, but volume of them - bigger. I can not tell, why exactly i think so, may be only to feel importance and weight (psychologic, i mean) of such a component...
     
  20. G3orge26

    G3orge26 Trainee Engineer

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    14
    You should make this an option in world settings ... that way everyone will be happy
     
  21. Paulo Campos

    Paulo Campos Trainee Engineer

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    2
    i think ammo needs rebalancing. The same amount of missiles and bullets for big ships and small ones is not right , and neither are the resources for big and small ship ammo. it shouldnt be the same amount for both.

    Also saving in MP should be a choice to disable, seing that a lot of ppl save the game , then go use toolbox to find bases, go back online and raid /wreck everything
     
  22. ZioMatrix

    ZioMatrix Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    48
    The server I play on, honestly, relies so heavily on just ganking parts from other ships that I couldn't really begin to suggest if refinery/assembly speed needs to be touched.
    I think we can all agree that multiple refineries connected to a conveyor network should share ores, however, instead of one refinery just eating everything, leaving us to manually redistribute it. Perhaps add control panel options to filter what a refinery can and can't refine?
     
  23. Fidel Battista

    Fidel Battista Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    256
    +1 on that, was thinking the same thing

    and welding and grinding should have adjustable x,1 x3 and x10 speed per world

    (and just a brainfart: what if welding/grinding speed varied in different parts of world like because of gas or something?)
     
  24. Davindos

    Davindos Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    1
    If I have many assemblers and they all are producing for eg. steel plates, then only one of them gains all the iron, the rest gets nothing. It's little waste of time to manually divide minerals between assemblers and it would be cool if conveyors could do it automatically. :)
     
  25. Bagpuss

    Bagpuss Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    47
    I really don't get the complaints about inventory size, or grinding (except small gyros, are they made off adamantium?) or welding. If you have trouble carrying everything, you should be building a small welding ship with cargo containers so you don't have to. With all the patches to conveyors, connectors an the like there is really no need for an Engineer to be carrying more than steel plates, interior plates and constructions components needs to put the frame of most things together.

    Grinding and welding again a small or large ship with multiple tools really speeds this up, don't be using hand tools on a large ship.

    Refining speed is really an issue between the solo game (where refineries only run when you are playing) compared to persistent servers (where they run all the time). On a persistent server the current speeds aren't much of an issue you load up a refinery one day and collect from it the next. In solo play please USE THE MULTIPLIER it isn't cheating, it is just compensating for the fact the game isn't running while you are at work, or asleep.

    Assembly speed is a bit of an issue because at the moment you can't request say 1000 thruster components from your assemble on a persistent server and then go to sleep expecting to find them the next day as it will grab all the iron it needs, and then run out of volume for other ores it needs. They aren't intelligent enough to keep feeding themselves in the right ratios from your stores. But assembly seems pretty rapid compared to refining so it isn't that much of an issue (although I guess Construction Components are make of interlocking 8 dimensional Rubik's cubes, as it seems to take an age with them).
     
  26. TiberiusGV

    TiberiusGV Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    2
    Honestly I don't think the welding/grinding times are all that bad and only needs a slight speed up. Also, while a little re-balancing of materials needed would be good (like corridor vs interior wall) I think the stupid large amount of resources for things like large reactors and large thrusters makes sense for what they are.

    I think it all depends on how creative you get with your mining and welding tools.

    On our server it was awefull getting our mining ship up and running, but once it was operational our resource needs are a total thing of the past. Its all about economies of scale. We have more resources than we will need for a while now with one large cargo container in our station that is filled to the brim with only iron ingots[​IMG]
    There are 195 drill heads on the other end of that, backed up by 24 refineries. Takes about 30 minutes to cut through this asteroid and another hour to refine everything with proper load balancing
    if the refineries.
    [​IMG]
    As for welding I have a small ship that has 14 welders and a cockpit on the front. All I have to do it keep tapping in one direction to weld up heavy armor and the way that flys together you would think that big fire crackers were going off. Yeah it can be annoying when I had to weld up 12 gyros on the inside where I couldn't get a welding ship, but that's part of the game.


    If anything all I would want to see with welding and grinding tools for 1 ship version go faster than 1 hand version. I don't know if I have something buggy going on but when having to get detailed with welding up small ships with our small construction ship (2 welders and 2 grinders on different sides) I swear it takes longer per block than doing it by hand. Is the power of the welding distributed amongst what is being welded up?

    I keep hearing about think MakerBot that's going to be done in game to I think that will help a lot with building.

    Things I really want to see.
    1. Bug fixes (keep up the good work) [haven't heard of anyone else having this problem but after about 30 minutes of play I loose the ability to type in game. No chat. No naming command groups. No typing inventory quantities to be moved. Restarting the game is my only fix]
    2. A way to save favorite servers
    3. rails
    4. customizable inventory list. I never need to look at drills, grinders, or collectors that force inventory into the system unless something is going wrong.
    5. Merge blocks that don't share electricity and command capability. Landing Gear and connectors don't seam to be strong enough to hold that mining ship inside a mother ship. I keep hearing about concrete so a merge block surrounded by concrete would have the same effect but it seams that you could do it as an option on the merge block easily enough.
    6. Better management of the control panel like collapsible groups. I never need to look at 195 drills individually. This would also be a way to alleviate 5 if 4 was done as well and command groups stopped disappearing. For big ships especially when merged to other big ships or stations the command groups and inventory list are out of control.
    7. A way to upgrade light armor to heavy armor without cutting out the light armor and replacing it from scratch. (Right click while hand welding maybe?)
     
  27. Sovereign

    Sovereign Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    1
    I am just waiting for better optimized multiplayer and better physics. That is all
     
    • Like Like x 1
  28. ChrissWalters

    ChrissWalters Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    96
    @Poll:
    I voted Yes, but I think only ship-based welder and grinder should work faster.
     
  29. Mansen

    Mansen Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    481
    Goodness me, yes. The hours I spent legitimately hand welding the heavy armour surface deck of my asteroid base alone has been more than I ever want to spend on something as tedious as that ever again (only followed by outfitting said base with solar panels)
     
  30. Scorpion00021

    Scorpion00021 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,411
    I like them being as slow as they are. It keeps death stars from appearing overnight.
     
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