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Update 1.182.1 - Beta Improvements

Discussion in 'Change Log' started by flexx, Jul 27, 2017.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. GrindyGears

    GrindyGears Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,787
    Psst, one of the best solutions to this problem is a variety of piston lengths in Vanilla, less stacking, less clang.

    Also that rotor issue with small heads on large bases is annoying and has broken a good portion of my stuff, if it's intentional please tell me so I can despair appropriately
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Snail Farmer

    Snail Farmer Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    7
    Found another bug. I'm not sure if it's the "aiming" problem or something else, but it's almost impossible for me to weld sensors now.
     
  3. Stardriver907

    Stardriver907 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,368
    A common misconception about how drills work is that you can push them as hard as you can and drill faster. Many people that build drill ships try to push their ship into the ore using maximum thrust. Unfortunately, drills only work at one speed. They will not move forward (or inward) until all of the material within their sphere of influence has been removed. Drills don't deform, so you won't see any damage until they're completely useless, and that's when they explode.

    Pistons, unlike thrusters, have unlimited strength. Once activated they will relentlessly extend and break anything that gets in their way, except for rock. I'm not surprised you've... experienced some setbacks. The real problem is that some of these things you mad did work, or at least worked enough to encourage you to continue along this path. I'm fairly certain that the game is working just fine and if you stack pistons they will sway and the amount and intensity of the sway is compounded every time you add another piston to the stack. It's just physics. Unless there is a way to exempt pistons from physics, which would undoubtedly cause other problem, the sway is just something you have to deal with. Stacking pistons is not how it's handled in real life and I, for one, want pistons to remain realistic.

    I beg to differ:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    This machine moves while drilling at .2 m/x. It has 135 drills, 45 if them are attached to pistons that reach 35 meters. I am currently sending this through a mountain.

    No. The problem is that the obvious solution to pistons not reaching far enough is, more pistons. The solution should be as stated below:

    Couldn't have said it better myself ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
    • Like Like x 1
  4. captainbladej52

    captainbladej52 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    462
    You can still keep pistons realistic without having them sway nearly as much as they can now. As I've said in some of our previous banters, things don't need to be 100% realistic to be fun or to work. I can see them having a little bit of sway because of what they are, but swaying upwards of 45 degrees or more without a rotor turning them is a bit ridiculous. This is one reason I don't actively use pistons and rotors in my builds is because of how unstable they can be. A little sway is one thing, but swaying like a pissed off caveman swinging a club everywhere is a bit ridiculous. I would love to be able to make better use of them without them exploding in my face or being as wildly unstable as they can be.

    Far as the multiple length of pistons idea, that would be cool and a great possibility. As a hypothetical, have a small piston that extends out 3 blocks, the medium that goes to 7, the large that goes to 14, and a mega piston that goes to 20. Obviously those numbers are not exact nor are the sizes anything other than me spit balling but a variety like that wouldn't be too bad. The multiple piston lengths would go a long way to eliminate the extreme swaying, though you're never going to completely get rid of piston stacking unless you made a universal piston that could be extended to virtually any length or block of that nature.
     
  5. krypt-lynx

    krypt-lynx Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    175
  6. FlakMagnet

    FlakMagnet Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,551
    @Stardriver907
    Ignoring the first pic as it's small grid :) .... and the mods in the other builds ( I am trying to achieve what can be achieved using only vanilla blocks ) can your design go beyond 35m ?? When I talk about 'deep drilling' I am talking about being able to drill from a surface location down to the 100-120m depth that the deepest ores are on vanilla planets. A feat I had managed multiple times on previous builds without needing any mods. I also want to make the design portable enough to operate anywhere. Either making it flyable or compact enough for a wheeled vehicle that can handle travelling over most terrain the wheels can cope with. Whilst I love your Behemoth....I would question it's off-road credentials :)

    Speed: My pistons are extending at the slowest possible speed ( 0.1 ) and this has always worked fine and put no stress on the rig. I check this by making test drills with no locked gear, and seeing how fast I can extend the drill head without lifting the craft...then use 0.1 less. I can actually drill at 0.2m/s extension and have it work, but I use 0.1 for safety. That matches what you are finding in terms of drill speed. My problems have remained.

    1) Pistons sway far too much, resulting in snapped off piston heads, or more commonly, failure of any blocks the piston is attached to. In the case of this being a drill....it is blowing the bottom off the rig.

    2) Drill heads are exploding and I suspect this could be linked to contact with the side of the hole, as I reduced it by having additional lateral drills. I still get failures...and they are still massively explosive. Far too explosive to allow me to properly diagnose the fault!

    None of the drills show damage, component loss or any other physical sign. Hold a welder up and the drills all show 100%. A few seconds later, lots of explosions. This was tested with me standing the player model ON the drill array with a welder, running around spot checking.
     
  7. I23I7

    I23I7 ME Tester

    Messages:
    3,827
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Stardriver907

    Stardriver907 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,368
    Well, it doesn't have to.

    Since ore on planets tends to be in layers instead of clumps, I've found vertical mining to be too time consuming. I have other machines that either roll on wheels or walk that can get to the layer and mine it out horizontally. The big machine (Terrestrial Mining Facility, or TMF) is more for terrestrial modification and not so much for ore extraction. Any ore I get from it is a bonus.

    However, be it mining or something else, I have never in over 5000 hours of building stuff found it necessary (or wise ;)) to stack pistons. At least not directly. This mod (originally from nila and updated by SEModder4) has a good variety of pistons and Keen should take note. When Havok get's ahold of all those short pistons connected to each other it just does what it's supposed to do.

    You can also build more interesting solutions that are a lot more stable using Mech's Gears & Things. There's more than one way to skin a cat.






    Um, I own two cats and I love them very much. It's just an old mining expression.
     
  9. FlakMagnet

    FlakMagnet Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,551
    Fear not...I do not approve of catskin clothing :)

    I guess that mile long monster would make an excellent grader!

    With a load more testing and messing....I have designed a rig that virtually eliminates piston wobble. Using a series of square frames and suspension wheels, I have got a rig that will extend safely to the lengths I need. Trouble is.....the drills are still exploding. Allowing for an extension rate of 0.1m/s, I get to around 40m down, and the things detonate. Putting side facing drills seemed to allow me to go deeper, but I still get random detonations of the drill array.

    Now...I am trying to pin down whether it is wobble causing piston destruction, or weak drills. I think I had both issues but have managed to design out one issue....but still have another.

    I understand about mods.....but that is not the right long term solution. It's like having your car break down and just taking a taxi. Sorts the immediate problem.....but does not resolve the deeper issue.

    I ha e put in a load of time and tried loads of solutions allowing me to virtually eliminate one obvious concern. That is the sandbox engineering way to sort the problem. Trouble is...I am left with another issue that has no logical cause and which forces me to stop what I want to do. Small grid drills have an AOE, which means they have a drill area larger than their body. Large grid ones do not. To make matters worse....when they fail...they are exploding with enough force to leave a large crater....which makes it impossible to salvage, repair or reuse a failed drill rig. There isn't enough remaining! That cannot be right in any sane universe.
     
  10. I23I7

    I23I7 ME Tester

    Messages:
    3,827
    As soon as you are done with your analsysis and have it simplified go ahead and PM the thing ill get a programmer to look at it IF the issue really is that Drills for some reason go BANG
     
  11. DeathOnAStick

    DeathOnAStick Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    22
    I haven't done a lot of mining with stacked pistons but I do agree that large drills seem weak and they do explode as if filled with explosives
     
  12. HeikoH1255

    HeikoH1255 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    25
    Hello evreyone so i got this game since 2014 and in this game there are so many things you can do a lot of creativity and alot of stup stuff so after many many hours of playing i saw many things happening new netcode textures from DX9 to DX11 new sounds ect.... lot of things happend yes all in all the game went more complex and things god fixed but now it starts to get anoying game crashes for no reason couse i run out of memory (by the way i got 24 GB DDR3) Cpu AMD FX 8120 3.8Ghz per core and a gtx 960 with 4 gb evrey other game like Star Citizen runs perfectly but not with space eng. this game needs like 32 Gb of DDR4 or idk how many so the point is even with a high end pc or with Win 7 or Win 8 or With Win 10 you CANT play this game without any problems. Its not working i saw so many people went away of Space eng couse this game is not playibel anymore me includet i dont have the time to play a game thats not working i play a other game like Elite Deng. So in my eyes you guys should fix the game finaly couse this is really getting anoying and peolpe are getting mad. Yeah i know its a Beta but comon focus on make the game GREAT again :D nah really do it pleas couse it could be so cool so many things can made with it but when there are so many laggs bugs issues with MP. Even with Sp. Dont talk about majo improvments couse there is no major improvment done. I know it sounds hard but you guys/girls did a great job with the game so make it pleas playibel again couse in this state i dont see any point of playing this game right now when i cant even move my ship with 30ms per Sec. and the whole System with stuck for like 5 mins.... just as an example how worst it is. i cant even record it couse my system is frozen at that moment and this is happening since beginning 2017 since you implementet the new textures. Oke enough sayd i hope you people dont get me wrong i just wantet to say that. Peace out
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  13. Cetric

    Cetric Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    814
    If Trump beyond being a catastrophy will be remembered for anything, it will be for making popular this phrase "make XXX great again" in any variation.
    --
    Back to the game:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Ricky

    Ricky Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    1
    Your latest update has completely broken the game for me.
    im playing on an Alienware Alpha i5, and I get a error whenever I launch the game "the game requires a Dx11 card" which I have and I can run Dx11 on the previous update. please fix this, I have to play on the update before using the beta option in steam sadly.
     
  15. I23I7

    I23I7 ME Tester

    Messages:
    3,827
    Hey,

    Yes we know about that issue. The render team is looking into it since its related to the game detecting your GPU and opting for your integrated card.
     
  16. Syncaidius

    Syncaidius Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    824
    Don't worry, you're not the only one with this opinion. Many have been waiting for the game to actually be playable (as in, playable without stuff blowing itself up, lagging out, desyncing, disappearing, crashing, freezing, etc every few minutes) for a long time.

    Personally, I'm close to giving up all hope with this game. I check back now in hope of some major bugs being fixed, but I'm still waiting a month later on 1 bug that prevents my friends and I from continuing our save because we cannot undock any of our ships without them blowing themselves in half.

    For those wondering what bug I'm talking about: https://forum.keenswh.com/threads/1-182-0-doors-lethal-or-just-do-not-exist.7396153/


    EDIT: Today's update appears to have fixed it. Haven't had time to play/test yet, but I really hope its true!
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
  17. Ghostickles

    Ghostickles Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,077
    So many pictures and stuffs this time, I shall join you.
    Multiple pistons are terrifying, but I made a rig that goes 100m without exploding. The Drills are not equipped in this picture.
    [​IMG]
    Here is some video from a friend watching while I hosted the game. On my end it held together fine.
    REMEMBER this is 100m of piston drilling in OLD netcode.

    You can see the drill holds, but the network didnt understand what was happening :)
    Fancy I should fire this up again soon.
    Thanks KEEN!!
    (Edit: F5)
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
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