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1.108 Hydrogen burns very quickly on planet

Discussion in 'Bug Reports' started by Seilore, Nov 13, 2015.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Seilore Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    46
    Walking out of my lander for the first time, jetpack auto engaged, no big deal, move no more than 2 seconds my 100% hydrogen now 0%, can't jetpack back to my lander as all hydrogen gone. Now what, guess I have to tear apart lander no other option...
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  2. Kielm Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    507
    Minor changes
    <snip>
    - jetpack's power is based on the environment and the G strength (1G = 7 seconds of fuel). They can't be used the same way as they are in space

    It says seven, but I've noticed it does seem closer to about three seconds.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Kittani Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    68
    7 is definately not the norm. maybe with no tools and a completely empty inventory... if you're full up it's worse.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. PUMMA Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    30
    +1 same issue on my ded server. running on EarthEasyStart. hydrogen runs out with in 5 seconds of jetpack use. when i get in miner it fills back up to 100% and i have an hydro bottle in my inventory

    **when i run of hydrogen in suit and turn off and on jet packs it refills from bottles but that still only last a few seconds**
     
  5. rexxar Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,530
    They said this is how it will be in the patch notes. This is intended behavior.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  6. Kane Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    570
    Design Flaws are considered bugs.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
  7. ancienthighway Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    56
    Martin Jetpack:
    Performance:

    Range 30km-50km
    Endurance (flight time) 30 minutes + Reserves
    Maximum airspeed 40kts (74km/h)
    Cruise speed 30kts (56km/h)
    Ceiling 3,000 ft AMSL
    Recommended cruise height 500ft and above per aviation authority regulations
    Take-off wind limit 15kts gusting +/- 5kts (28km/h +/- 9km/h)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Kane Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    570
    For people who don't know that is actually a real thing.
     
  9. infiltr8 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    54
    Kane ... does this real Thing (jetpack) use hydrogen as fuel?
     
  10. Kane Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    570
    I can one up that. If they were going make it a 100% useless why did they not introduce another Jetpack to the game for Planets :p
     
  11. ancienthighway Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    56
    45 gallon fuel tank (gasoline). It doesn't actually use jets, but a pair of fans that provides lift. No reason something like that couldn't be powered by an electric engine powered with batteries, perhaps even a small solar panel to charge as you go (probably not enough for infinite flying though) and emergency recharge when landed with additional solar panels.

    Hydrogen as a fuel for flight on a planet is extremely unsafe. Think the Hindenberg, although the use there was for lighter than air buoyancy.
     
  12. Harrekin Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,077
    It's to encourage working with ships.
     
  13. Kane Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    570
    I can even agree with that but 7 seconds is too short. If it was 60 seconds or even 30 seconds. But 7 Seconds is just silly. You need enough to get out of a cave or onto a ship sort of stick in the air. For an Alpha game the last thing we need is not to be able to get to our UNLIMITED atmospheric hover ships...

    Reference to: http://forum.keenswh.com/threads/01...t-to-nothing-in-energy-in-hover-mode.7372955/

    There is too many bugs and too many issues to let something like that go. It's a tool to make up with so many engine issues.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Harrekin Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,077
    Build scaffolding?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. k0rd Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    85
    jetpack works a little better with your helmet on, for some reason.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. Kane Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    570
    fluke or multiple times?
     
  17. k0rd Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    85
    constantly. not *much* better, but definitely a couple of seconds.
     
  18. Cthulhu616 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    72
    i think, making the thrusters burn the hydrogen faster is the wrong way (maybe the only way in game?)...

    a more realistic approach would be lowering the thrusters force output, because the atmospheric pressure effects the thrusters exhaust gasses, hence lowering the efficiency

    i don't get why maximunm fuelflow changes only because of the presence of an atmosphere
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Phand Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,650
    Hi,

    we will check it out. Thank you for feedback.
     
  20. Lukas Designer

    Messages:
    443
    Hello guys,

    thank you for your feedback. This is not a bug, the jetpack on planets will work for jumps not for flight. Otherwise you could leave atmosphere in jetpack alone. Put one hydrogen bottle in your inventory and it will last for 9 jumps. (one jump should last around 7 seconds, depending on what you do. If you fly forward, jetpack engages 2 thrusters, one forward and one downward to negate gravity pull.. so it will run out faster.)

    Take into consideration that the game is alpha and this hasn't changed with release of planets. We might have some plans regarding different jetpacks ;-). For now you are using jetpack that is intended for space.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  21. willem.huiskamp Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    87
    Ok, I do understand the thoughts behind this design-decision.

    But, that makes welding any sort of vehicle, base or ship by hand, while in natural gravity, nearly impossible. I had a look at the Scuttler and the first block I have to weld is way above my reach.
    Ofcourse I could use the welding ship provided, but IMO that should be an option, not a must.

    And I do like to build just by hand. That gives me more of a feeling of accomplishment.

    As for the argument of being able to leave the planet just by jetpack: in the stream as well as in other places you have been stating, that the distance and time to leave a planet are 'immense'. So leaving just by jetpack would be difficult anyhow.

    Perhaps some setting for burn-duration somewhere in between, like not as long as in space, but long enough to build by hand on a planet surface.
     
  22. k0rd Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    85
    I think if they disabled the ability to refill (hydrogen) from bottles unless you were standing on solid ground, it would eliminate this concern entirely without needing to artificially increase the consumption rate of suit hydrogen.

    (edit) but make this restriction only when affected by natural gravity, of course
     
  23. mikeloeven Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,162
    Ill post what i always post CONFIGURATION !!!!! why listen to your users bitch and moan when you can make the jetpack fuel consumption a SERVER VARIABLE !!!!!

    if you want to leave the atmosphere on a jetpack (your kinda dumb) but hey its your server and you have a right to configure the behavior however you want

    Though the best solution would be making the jet pack a equip-able item not only does this allow for modifiable jet packs with different functionalities properties and fuel usage but it would also allow for atmosphere only flight packs like so

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2015
  24. Kane Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    570
    I think what we would like is slightly longer bursts for my argument sake it's not for leaving or welding but actually how space engineers can be buggy at times <3 and it's a really good tool to get out of a sticky situation. Maybe 30 Seconds if that would last enough without being able to leave. If not 7 Seconds with a bottle might not be so bad but we should consider adding this info to the landers and the starting base that the bottles last 9 or 8 refills. I had no clue on this myself.
     
  25. mikeloeven Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,162
    the bug is that the jetpack is too janky on the planet

    First of all it functions like it does in space when jump packs need to function in a different manner.

    Jetpacks are 6DOF devices that only work in space

    Jump Packs have the issue of not having any safety mechanisms that you would need in atmosphere. first of all you have IDS on or IDS Off with ids on you jump up but dont come down until you run out of fuel and die unless you hold C which will make you accelerate too quickly to controll.

    When the jump pack is enabled you cannot walk so there is now a time lag between hitting the jetpack and jumping .

    another issue is the fact that the fuel has to be refilled too frequently it would be far better to use normal fuel consumption but enforce the jump pack behavior using a AI

    Essentially proper behavior for a jump pack would be holding space would trigger the jump pack releasing space would decent at a safe speed. Instead of increased hydrogen consumpetion and needing to refill after each jump lets assume that jump height controlled by AI and pack will maintain fuel reserves by making the jumps Timed. After the 7 Seconds the pack will enter descent mode instead of allowing fuel to depelte and the character to fall to his death

    But as i posted before the jetpack should be a equipment slot that can support multiple types of jetpacks
    such as ION (Space Flight)
    Hydrogen (Jump Pack)
    Ducted Fan (Prolonged Atmospheric Flight)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  26. Kane Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    570
    I would love new Jetpacks myself that are required to use the suit changer to equip them.
     
  27. lyle sonders Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    342
    I saw an article on the internet that some guys invented a new jet pack that actually uses jets, flight time of the new jet pack is 10 minutes. http://jetpackaviation.com/ Maybe Keen could create something based on this.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2015
  28. Neeneko Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    63
    Scaffolding would indeed help if it were implemented. As would ladders or some other 'climb' mechanic. As it stands, short falls off a platform or vehicle can really get you stuck, and we have less a 'jetpack' and more 'one shot barely controllable no air resistance super jump'
     
  29. Tyrantissar Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    86
    My Jet pack hydrogen also burns 7 seconds fast, and I thought that was the norm... until I read this thread.
     
  30. druppi Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    178
    no bug
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.