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[1.186] Welder keep welding after finishing the block

Discussion in 'Bug Reports' started by Spets, Feb 4, 2018.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Spets Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,214
    the welder tool keep doing the welding particles and sound effects after finishing constructing the block.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  2. The_Cryptkeeper Trainee Engineer

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    14
    I have a feeling this is an intentional feature. You can activate the welder before touching it to a block, and you will see the flame. Get it close enough to a block and it will weld, as well as produce effects (and continue doing so even once the block is fully constructed). More realistic I guess.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. suicideneil Apprentice Engineer

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    227
    By that logic the block should get damaged & then destroyed once it is fully welded if you keep holding the torch to it...

    Some things are nice when they are more realistic or believable, but not being able to tell when a block is damaged or fully constructed any more simply by waving a Welder past it doesn't help, is counter intuitive compared to what we've learnt over the last 4+ years, and is one piece of realism you don't need in a crafting game.
     
    • Agree Agree x 8
  4. Spets Master Engineer

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    3,214
    I like that you can activate it in the air without welding anything, but I want it to stop doing the sparkles so I know the construction is finished immediately instead of checking the popup window progress bar
     
    • Agree Agree x 10
  5. Ondřej Nahálka QA Lead Staff

    Messages:
    88
    Works as intended.

    Not a bug.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 16
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  6. suicideneil Apprentice Engineer

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    227
    It never worked like that before the patch, not in 4+ years. Do not want, put it back the way it was please- the people have spoken...
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  7. Spets Master Engineer

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    3,214
    [​IMG]
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. CaD Apprentice Engineer

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    113
    Yep I agree please put it back the way it was.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Arcturus Senior Engineer

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    1,649
    There used to be, and should be, a visual cue that the block is fully built/repaired. The only way to tell now is that the progress bar on the right side of the HUD reaches 100%.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. ChronosTaldeer Trainee Engineer

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    4
    i don't like this "feature" too. please put it back!
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  11. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    1,608
    It’s interesting that Keen has chosen to depict the hand welder as an oxy-acetylene rig whereas the ship welders are depicted as arc welders. From a reality standpoint, welding with oxy-acetylene in space would be difficult, if not impossible, not to mention hauling around the necessary tanks. And if our hand welder is oxy-acetylene, why does suit power drop so quickly when it’s being used?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  12. OMGvert Trainee Engineer

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    4
    I agree that the old way is better. So much of building relied on the audio and visual queues to work efficiantly.
     
  13. Myrkur Trainee Engineer

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    58
    With the community on this
     
  14. darth_crunchus Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    239
    Not really...if anything, you could weld more efficiently in space, as there's no atmosphere to wick heat away from the joint, and since the torch carries its own fuel and oxidizer (the oxygen), you'd have no problem lighting it. The real trick would be dexterity in the suit.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    1,608
    I should have also mentioned that the ship welders still show the old way, i.e., they stop welding when the component reaches 100%. I also agree that the new way is confusing.
    --- Automerge ---
    I found this quote in a NASA forum when searching for welding in outer space: "A hot gas welding apparatus used in space will have a micro-nozzle, facing the exact opposite direction of the arch vector, which will provide a constant counter thrust. Otherwise, the welder and the gun will simply fly away from the work area into space." Oops.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
  16. FoolishOwl Junior Engineer

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    522
    Sometimes I wonder if the SE devs actually use SE for extended periods of time, the way users do. It's a UI shortcoming to lack positive feedback that a particular block is finished. Building a ship from scratch means welding hundreds or thousands of blocks. Repairing damaged blocks often means, in practice, running a welder over blocks you're not even sure are damaged.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  17. elm Trainee Engineer

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    3
    +1
    old way was much better for providing good gameplay
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. NoThanks Apprentice Engineer

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    458
    Backlash against this change was instant and overwhelming. I wonder if they will reverse this questionable, arbitrary decision?
     
  19. Arcturus Senior Engineer

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    1,649
    They have heavily invested in replay automation systems, such as the recent one used to make the update video or the Testing Tool (which you can find on your own computer at C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\SpaceEngineers\Tools\TestingTool or similar). The testing tool replays a series of actions in-game and compares pixels in a final screenshot to a stored version from an earlier run. A lot of update QA/QC could be automated down to "did the change we made prevent successful completion of the obstacle course?".
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  20. FoolishOwl Junior Engineer

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    522
    That's interesting.

    I work in QA testing for hardware drivers. We have a large array of servers that run automated tests, over and over. And then, we've got a large team of people running tests manually. Most of the bugs we find, we find in the course of testing manually, and mostly, it's because a tester noticed something weird happening that wasn't directly tested for.

    Obviously, there are only minor aspects of UI testing that you could automate -- almost by definition, since a UI is an interface between an application and a human being. So if you're making major changes to a game's visual experience, you really need to have people spend a lot of hours using it and get their feedback.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  21. suicideneil Apprentice Engineer

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    227
    Bump- you gonna leave us hanging? Do we need to start a thread on the feedback forum?
     
  22. NoThanks Apprentice Engineer

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    458
    @FoolishOwl I also work in quality assurance, though for manufacturing. The principles are the same across the board however and I feel that KSH's QA is either routinely ignored, completely uninformed, or functionally incompetent. There are always escapes in QA. I get that... It's impossible to catch everything. But SO many bugs that have afflicted this game have been so incredibly pervasive and obvious that it's extremely hard to believe they even fire the game up once before rolling patches out. Just sort of slap new code in and ship it out to the masses without a second thought.

    Automated tests would only catch so much, I had assumed something like that had to be in play but seems to me that's the only thing that's done here, and if it weren't for the community pointing out some extremely obvious bugs to these people... the game would be a steaming pile of nonfunctional flotsam floating through the ether.

    And as for the actual change... I Don't see a point. It worked fine before and allowed for contextual feedback from the game that you didn't even really have to be watching. As many here have noted it was fairly intuitive as is and easy to get a hold of. Now people have to sit and watch a progress bar.... like a hawk if you're making repairs... instead of just cruising along the surface of damaged blocks until the welder stops reacting (thus signaling your repair job is complete).

    It's not a bug though... this is an intended (if not counter-intuitive) feature... No more quintessential KSH response than that one to this sort of blowback.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  23. darth_crunchus Apprentice Engineer

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    239
    Well, granted, but to be fair, Space Engineers is a game, after all. They're not gonna get everything 100%, you know? lol Would definitely be nice to see Keen add that in for the sake of realism, but I think that for the most part, I can overlook that kind of oversight due to the nature of what it is in the end.
     
  24. sadpickle Trainee Engineer

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    55
    REALLY HOPING this has been addressed internally. It's such a small thing, to revert to the old behavior; "realism" be damned, there is nothing realistic about this game. It is and has always been faintly ridiculous. If I'm going to slap together ships with a hand torch, that hand torch needs to work well as a tool, or I don't want to play.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  25. Oskar1101 Apprentice Engineer

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    232
    I wonder why welder is not hurting another players like it did some time ago.
     
  26. kittle Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,086
    This is going to have lousy unintended consequences when welding large projections.

    before this patch, i could project a big ship against a welding wall, let the welders weld, wait for the sparks to stop -- then I know that layer of blocks is done, advance 1 block, wait for the sparks to stop.. and so on.

    now... there is no way to know if the welding is done since the welding sounds and sparks will never stop as long as the welding wall is turned on. What did you intend players to do in that situation?

    Also consider welding a block and running out of components (ex large reactor) - since the welding sparks keep going there is no visual indicator that something changed, other than the BRIEFLY displayed message saying you need xyz number of components to finish the block. hopefully something didnt distract the player from the screen in the short time the red message was displayed. What did you intend players to do in this situation?

    Lastly - for blocks that take a long time to weld on 1x settings (solar panel, assembler) -- how is the player to know that something changed (out of comps,or done) vs the weld is just taking a while since the welding sparks never stop. What did you intend players to do in this situation?


    please revert this change
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  27. darth_crunchus Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    239
    Visual confirmation is inconclusive?
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  28. Tamagotchii Trainee Engineer

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    75
    I'm with the community on this one change it back or this is gonna get old quick. starting to feel more like a job than a game.
     
  29. LvlLord Trainee Engineer

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    16
    This new "feature" is like fueling a car. You can pump fuel in but you need to sit on the drivers seat, to see if it is full.
    Unfortunately it is getting more an more into work than fun. Other games have a vanilla repair station which automatically repairs damaged blocks. Here you need to check every block manually to see what needs to be repaired.
    And now you need to read the stats.
    One reason more for the "build and repair system" mod. Vanilla the game gets more and more not enjoyable :(
     
  30. suicideneil Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    227
    No, it isn't- not when you don't have enough components to complete the item 100%, but the welding animation continues regardless, as though pretending to be still welding. I would have thought that much was obvious.

    HELLO? ANYONE THERE PLEASE? When are you gonna address this with something other than a dismissive 'tough sh*t' reply?
     
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.