A Difference between a Block and a Line

Prelude:
With the new update with the Glorious Glass, it has become all to apparent to me that the "Single Item Per Block" Methodology is flawed.


The Problem:



The Red Blocks are the blocks that are totally taken up by the objects, regardless of the object's "Actual" size.




In order to encase One block in Cover Walls, you need to occupy Four blocks.



Glass cannot connect to each other at all if they are the same block, and they take up a Whole Block just to exist on the fine edge, making ship decorations needlessly space consuming. And what is the currect solution to this problem?



A massive, overly complicated, and ridiculous object list, taking up literally double the amount of objects in the game's inventory, and forcing the player to learn this unintuitive list of arbitrarily 'different' objects and craft The SAME panel of glass as if it were two different objects.


In every sense, this is a total waste of space.


Some Solutions:

A revamp of the way Blocks are handled by adding two new classifications of objects. Line-Objects, And Free-Objects.

Line-Objects: These blocks will be your Cover Walls, Railings, Glass Panels, and other objects that Only Exist on the Lines between the blocks, No Two Line-Objects can exist on the same line, but Block-Objects can occupy the Block Space directly adjacent to the Line-Object. These Line-Objects must be connected to one of the two blocks on either side of it, HOWEVER, they will not have a Bias toward either block, so if one is destroyed or removed, it will still be attached via the other block. This will cut the Glass Panel List by half, and allow you to simply Rotate the glass panel to have Shaded or Clear side. This will also make those annoying Catwalks obsolete, and replace them with Catwalk Panel (Block-Object) and Railings (Line-Object)

Free-Objects: These will be your Lights, Switches, Buttons, Paintings, Beds, Passenger Chairs, anything in the "other" category of your items. These Items have two modes, "Snap Mode" and "Free Mode".

In Snap Mode, they will snap to one of Nine Locations on the block. Only one Free-Object can occupy a Snapped Location at a time while in this Mode, totaling in Nine Items that can take up one face.

| |
Here | Here | Here
| |
____________________
| |
Here | Here | Here
| |
____________________
| |
Here | Here | Here
| |

In "Free Mode" the objects can be placed literally Anywhere on the block's face except for within a few inches of the edges of the block, so as to not interfere with any future Line-Object neighbors it might have.

Other Ideas:

Subdivide each Large Ship Block into a 3x3x3 grid Like shown below:
| |
Here | Here | Here
| |
____________________
| |
Here | Here | Here
| |
____________________
| |
Here | Here | Here
| |

Questions, Comments, and Ideas!

Leave a comment if you like this idea, or if you have any that would improve or expand on it. If I like it I'll throw it up here in the OP with your name on it =^_^=

 

Good gravy yes! I love your idea of making a distinction between line and whole blocks. Would open up a lot more options to ship building.

 

This is glorious. I love it.

 

Make it so!

 

DEFINITELY a good suggestion! And very well laid out too!

 

HOLY CRAP O_O

Leonhardt actually LIKES an idea.... and its Mine?

creepy ._.

thank you

 

While I'd love to see this, it'd be pretty hard to put in at a code level; the best compromise we can get is allowing certain block types to be placed overlapping inside a block space.

 

Humbug! This Dev team is Amazing!

DON'T LISTEN TO THE DOUBTERS DEVS!
DON'T BELIEVE IN YOURSELF!
BELIEVE IN THE ME THAT BELIEVES IN YOU!!!!!!!

 

↓

 

Yes, for the love of Satan yes!

 

Bring us to victory, Kamina! Bring us intuitive parts lists!

 

This is pretty reminiscent of the way the game Wurm Online uses to manage building & fence placement. In it, each block section on the the ground has a border which you can select and build things on, in addition to the normal per-block construction. They also implemented the ability to place items anywhere in a block square, move them around where you want them, and the game remembers this placement indefinitely.

However, that game does not operate using a 3-dimensional block grid, like Minecraft and Space Engineers do. It uses a "corner height" system, that calculates each squares form and height by looking at how high each of its 4 corners are from the server zero-plane, then stretches the texture out inbetween them. It's kind of like having a hammock attached to 4 poles, and the height of the poles decides how the hammock will hang.
The system is powerful in that it allows terraforming, but limited in that it does not work very well in the Z axis, only X and Y, which made extensive modifications needed to enable multi-floored buildings, for example.


I'm not saying the idea is impossible to implement in SE by any means, but I believe some core engine changes would need to be made to do it. And these changes would likely take quite a lot of time. Time, that they they might want to spend on other areas right now.

 

+1, I was thinking about this the other night.

 

+1 Too! The new glass panels got me to want metal panels, too... But playing around with the space-eating configuration and the "absurd" flipped independent pieces (no wonder one was forgotten and some transparencies off) It got me almost not want them... But with this! There is a bit of it when playing with symmetry-planes... It's used for deciding odd or paired symmetry, as you know... But wouldn't it be good? Solar panels could also better their placement from this... And believe bigger parts, like big-thrusters and refineries, could also solve the incorrect mirroring by implementing this.

Kept thinking... Not for us to decide viability, but not to hype either: I think this just miiiight go against the boxel-grid engine-principle this hold thing is built upon.

 

Sure hope this is possible.

 

This would be awesome. Plus, the catwalk panel could be used to hide machinery like grav generators or the pipes when they are introduced.

 

The possibilities are truly boundless with this system. Even if all we get are the Line-Objects and the Free-Objects aren't used, I would still be VERY happy.

Because the "one item per block" methodology is truly flawed, and nothing demonstrates that fact better than our (REALLY COOL) glass blocks.

I'm just wanting this game to be better ^_^

 

If you look at your save files, they all are made up with XML.
All blocks of a ship is related to an initial point (maybe the first block placed, I still don't know) and then all blocks are placed in a 3D grid using coordinates.
So they would be running into the same problem as in Minecraft where you can't put two torches in a same corner block.
The Minecraft modding community made some tools to go around that (ForgeMultiparts) but this won't be easy. What will you weld/grind/hit ? This complexity may come, but I would not expect that soon.

 

+1 ... no +100

I NEED THIS! This would add so much flexibility. Now they only need half-blocks too (these damm fences are not 1 block in height!!) and I'm truly happy with block placement.

 

I more believe in few blocks in one "point" in grid, then in using something between actually int coordinates (like between x,y 1,2 and 2,2 if coordinates can't be float)... devs know better, but back to original post: I HATE THESE 3x3x3 METERS LAMPS! Khm. Yes, we need this some way.

P.S.: To "How they must know, which block you actually weld" post. Try paint block, placed BEHIND metal window. If you not point aim at metal parts, but in empty between them - you easily can paint block behind it. So they ALREADY knows, what block you aim at by model shape. Also, there is definition for unattachable sides for blocks, so why not definition for "unused"?

 

My Rebuttal

 

Word cannot explain how much this thing is needed, it simply can't.

So, without further ado:

 

+ all my monies

This would take the game from alpha to release in my book. Ok, maybe not quite.

Even the complex sub part type system (forge multipart) would work fine in this scenario. The grid system could simply add interior sub divisions for each part placed.

Honestly, i think they should just merge small block and large block definitions, as small is already 1/5th scale of large blocks (unless you tweak the scale size in block definitions)

 

Dawwww, Tardar Sause =^_^=

 

er-mer-gerd YES!
+everything.

..achem.. I mean I totaly and completely agree with the OPs idea, and would very much like to see this implemented in game.


Im throwin' mah monies at the screen, but nothin' be happ'nin'!

 

This Would simplify the builds For SO many ship designs. and Imagine the Space Compression. You use full blocks to layer the outer hull and single Line Fill blocks to denote internals without having to have a large ship with each room having walls about three meters thick.

 

Ooooo I like this idea, I have no idea what it means, but it sounds awesome!

While I like your idea, i think the textures would get really weird REALLY fast!