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"A New Era..."

Discussion in 'General' started by Thrak, Jan 2, 2019.

  1. Thrak Apprentice Engineer

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    433
    Well, from Marek's latest blog post, discussing accomplishments in 2018 and vision for 2019:

    "Space Engineers and Medieval Engineers will enter a new era. The first phase was about building a strong basis for sandbox: large-scale modifiable environment with many physical and mechanical entities. This phase is done. The upcoming phase will be about steering the games into particular directions. They will become less sandbox, more games. There are multiple directions we want to take both games: economy, warfare, stories … I can go on, so let’s keep some surprises :)"

    (EDIT: Adding... emphasis is original)
     
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  2. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    I dunno. I really like the game as a sandbox.
     
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  3. J-Cataclism Trainee Engineer

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    I haven´t even yet realized there was such a dev-blog. Thank you for bringing it here!
     
  4. Morloc Apprentice Engineer

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    <rolls up newspaper> Bad Stardriver! Bad!!

    Seriously though, I'm guessing the odds of a toggle for whatever's coming is very close to 100%. Hopefully there's more pirates and smarter spider type fauna, and less ...err.....exploding cyberdogs. :\


    -Morloc
     
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  5. Thrak Apprentice Engineer

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    433
    Agreed. I think more "game" can be added to SE without sacrificing the option to enjoy its inherent, sandbox nature.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
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  6. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    You guys are WRONG!

    Actually, what I'm concerned about is the mention of economy. There's a lot that can go wrong when a game imposes a monetary system and currency. At the very least it implies everyone accepts the same rule. It's more realistic to leave that in the hands of players.
     
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  7. mojomann71 Junior Engineer

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    Maybe in ME an Economy would work out better than for SE. If that is implemented though can already see money hacks / mods all over the place. :)
     
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  8. WraithLeader1 Apprentice Engineer

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    I'd like to see an Economy, with goods, money, trade, etc.. But they'd have to hard code it so that you can't mod or hack it with double and triple checks..... mojomann71 is correct that there'd be people trying to take advantage of it.... But a properly implemented economy would be great. It'd add more goals and MP imersivenes
     
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  9. zachusaman Trainee Engineer

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    48
    I think adding NPCs would be a huge HUGE step in the right direction for this game, and the ability to make "quests" as well. Scenarios are nice and all but I'd really like to have more within my game, and I can imagine all the devious/awesome things the modding community can come up with.

    Imagine NPCs on your ship that could do basic repairs/defense. Wouldn't need a sophisticated AI for this, just basic pathfinding to damaged blocks (and the cargo container with supplies) or intruders.

    The pathfinding part has been demoed successfully in 2014 here:


    Imagine a mod that adds trading outposts with quests to deliver supplies between the two, with plenty of "fun" encounters in between, or quests to retrieve items from pirates or deep within a planet. Doesn't seem too hard (I took intro to programming guis!) to implement the basics for this and let the community do what it does best. Heck, if nothing else this could provide another opportunity for a certain GoodAI to get some playtime.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
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  10. Calaban Junior Engineer

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    603
    A foresight into the "game" aspect Space Engineers, that you can try right this minute!

    Load a world, Lone survivor map. Spawnship and spawn with tools: off. max saves:1. Turn weather to "really awful" Cargo ships and drones of course on. Then load in the Corruption mod. Start it in creative mode just to paste in an Earthlike world say 1500 km distant [barely visible]. Then reset world to survival.
    The Game: Get through the drone infested chaos of interplanetary space, and get to Earth. Build a Medbay there. Maybe a space log cabin with an infinity pool patio.

    If you die more than 20 times (wait- Corruption mod with no mats start) -make that 200 times, then Game over.

    Thats the "game" mode you can play right now:

    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1615760295
    [ im playing The Game right now, looping Gorillaz- Dare over and over as I play- can I get a mod for that?]

    ..but how to "develop it"?

    With just a little developer developing, or maybe just some mod maker tweaking of existing mods, such a clear and difficult objective would make for a fine "game" mode, and would appear to be a fleshed out procedural (read: always uniquely different) space system with little actual work.. that hasnt been modded worked out already.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
  11. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    4,477
    Less of a sandbox... so um... it's going to become MinerWars 3? Do not want.

    I want a sandbox that can be configured nicely into a game world through a series of setting and if needed or desired mods. I don't want Keen to implement what they think is a great system of rules. I want a system that is terrific at creating rules. The only part of the game that even feels engineery is the programmable block.
     
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  12. Roxette Senior Engineer

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    1,098
    I live in North-West England, that's the default setting here.
     
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  13. FoolishOwl Apprentice Engineer

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    Honestly, can we look at the gameplay features Keen's implemented before, and feel any confidence in what they'd add?

    C'mon. It's a halfway decent sandbox. Just flesh it out a bit more with some more sandbox features.
     
  14. WraithLeader1 Apprentice Engineer

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    408
    I'd like to see some of the decorative blocks(Like beds, etc..), the new crawler cockpit, and some of the other mods added to the game....
     
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  15. doncdxx Apprentice Engineer

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    361
    My hope is that the keep the current survival sandbox mode and just add other game modes. PvP modes, story modes, and other structured coop and competitive modes.
     
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  16. Thrak Apprentice Engineer

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    433
    Indeed, I hope whatever comes is able to be selected, like many of the other functions currently in the game (airtightness, drones, cargo ships, unknown signals, etc.). I like the idea of having the option. I also recognize that, if Keen is going to grow the user base of this game, it needs to have some of these more "adventuresome" features when it goes gold.
     
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  17. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    2,420
    Everyone agrees that an economic model would be a nice addition to the game, and the reasons are mostly obvious. I don't disagree that the game could use one. I worry that an economic model imposed by the developer will have... unintended consequences.

    Some will hail the system as the Thing That Made Me and My Friends Kill to Own a Copy of Space Engineers.
    Some will call it the Thing Thing That Ruined What Was Until This Moment the Greatest Game in Video Game History.
    Some will see it as a challenge to their hacking skills.

    All of this is based on the premise that it's hard-coded into the game and the fate of the game is tied to it's success as a viable system. From what I have seen already in the industry, success is not likely. No matter the level of skill of Keen's staff, people will make it their lifetime ambition to have us all believe it was done wrong and therefore all support for KSH must cease.

    (Search your feelings, Luke. You know it to be true.)

    A player-made economic system, however, can be flawed beyond human comprehension and not affect the popularity of the game in general. It could also be much more sophisticated than anything from the developer. In the real world we live amonst several economic and monetary systems that don't all necessarily work well together. This is the aspect of real life that SE can model to a fine degree of precision. Developer input in this instance is not necessary for this game. Paying attention in Economics class will yield much better results ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
  18. mojomann71 Junior Engineer

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    750
    For there to be a really good economy in the game there would need to be a bigger better "story" and NPC system. As the game currently stands and the method of modding for the game, this would be an aspect to easily exploited. I am down with having an economy, would be great to go sell ore that I mined or parts that I crafted etc. I just do not see a viable way for it to be pulled off at this stage of the game. I could be wrong and maybe I just can't see the "Big picture". :)
     
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  19. FoolishOwl Apprentice Engineer

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    429
    For one thing, most game developers who go on about implementing economic systems have fundamental misunderstandings about economics; typically, they assume a system should be simple, stable, and self-regulating, and then don't understand why it immediately goes off the rails.

    In the case of SE, as I've said before, the simplest way to set up a market would be to use commodity currency. There are several reasons why this doesn't happen. The most important are: there's no scarce resource except time, economic specialization would be tedious, and there are too few players on a server for there to be a market.

    The only way I can see a market making any sense at all is if you had to learn how to construct blocks by paying NPC vendors for the knowledge.
     
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  20. mojomann71 Junior Engineer

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    750
    Or like anything else just have a simple market system that players who want the "immersion" of there being an economy can turn that on, those who don't turn it off. Like I said earlier though I think it is too late in development to start this system.
     
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  21. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,082
    I interpreted this as "what will happen after gold release". They'll surprise me greatly otherwise.
     
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  22. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    4,477
    Some day... I will be able to use a landing connected to a piston and a rotor to land on a planet. Or maybe a nice new shiny windmill.
     
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  23. doncdxx Apprentice Engineer

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    361
    There's one serious problem with adding an economy to the game. A prerequisite for an economy is scarcity. Everything is everywhere, there is no real scarcity.

    The best way to overcome this would be the inclusion of NPC space stations and trade goods. (Andorian ale anyone?) There would need to be multiple stations so that there could be different levels of supply and demand allowing for trade routes...

    How to make a functional economic system is an intense topic and should probably be it's own thread.
     
  24. Sarekh Senior Engineer

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    1,043
    And as you know it has already been discussed multiple times to no end. There are game economy designers in the industry, it's actually a specialized branch of game design. I shudder at the the idea that KSH would try to do something like that to Space Engineers - it would warrant scarce resources, exchange rate functionalities, quest / tasks with their own motivation - and limitations to the building freedom, such as blueprint / tech progression or materials that do not come by without trade. All this would either have to be made optional (like the career mode in KSP) or be included in such a fashion that it can be easily overcome by those of us who reaaaally don't want to pay some NPC in order to just build their stuff. I cannot imagine that a project of this scale would be approached this late in game development.
     
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  25. FoolishOwl Apprentice Engineer

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    429
    That's the thing. What worries me more about SE than its apparent stagnation, are the hints of wildly unrealistic goals that KSH might take up.

    If they want to add more gameplay, focus on the "engineer" in "Space Engineers", and add engineering puzzles: the player has to fix or build something, under certain constraints. Have a few that function as tutorials, and a few more "advanced" puzzles. That seems to me like a natural extension of what they've already done and what people actually do with Space Engineers.
     
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  26. May Rears Apprentice Engineer

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    334
    so a new era (new game?), just one question...

    Has Keen ever actually finished a game to the point it has "gone gold" or been actually released or are they always in permanent beta?
     
  27. FoolishOwl Apprentice Engineer

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    429
    Let's just say it's more likely they'll complete Space Engineers then that GoodAI will produce human-like general AI.
     
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  28. Spaceman Spiff Junior Engineer

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  29. boromir Apprentice Engineer

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    173
    I could see all this coming in as paid DLC after release.
     
  30. Havick30 Trainee Engineer

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    Hay does anybody know if u can disable blocks, my server wants to disable reactors an only use solor pannels an batterys.
    It brings a fun challenge that way