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AAM - Ariel Aerospace Manufacturing | Taipan Fighter & Tujiu Dropship Released

Discussion in 'Community Creations' started by Dwarf-Lord Pangolin, May 21, 2014.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,597
    Whiplash, that is ... disturbing. Definitely want to see more of that.

    3eepoint, I love how that dock looks! I'm impressed at the wheels, which I assume are for the "printer head"; I gave up on trying to build a system like that a while ago, and I wish you luck pulling it off!

    Not working on anything that requires thrusters until the "spastic hummingbird" problem is fixed; however, out of curiosity I checked to see if the PMWs I'm working on can straight-up overwhelm point defense. Dropped two at a target with what I feel is a fairly hefty number of turrets for the amount of space the target presents.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The first one had virtually no effect due to the turrets, but the second was ... well, effective. I'm very encouraged by this, and I'm going to pursue my plan of designing the Appalachian Mk. II with the ability to dumb-fire three PMWs simultaneously; the first a decoy pod, the second and third ingot-loaded weapons. Ideally, you'll have three people on board remotely controlling all the missiles, which would allow for one or two to pilot the decoy(s) to distract the turrets, while the remaining missiles deliver damage. All three launch cells on the App will be able to construct either decoys or missiles, and the missiles will be loaded via conveyors and an appropriate script.

    Throwing this out just because it looks purdy.
    [​IMG]
     
  2. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,863
    Haha, you liked my description of large grid FACs eh?

    That's not quite an Ifrit level of PD defense though, I think you need more than 3 ;)

    Is that the final version of your ingot bomb? It's it just ballast based or frag based?
     
  3. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,597
    It was a very apt description. ;)

    And yeah, this won't get through Ifrit level PD, at least not without dedicated decoy pods ... not that anyone's designing those, of course :p. However, the Appalachian is only 3,600 tonnes, so if she can't scratch something the size of the Ifrit I'm not too worried. This is more meant to take out lighter ships that threaten vessels being escorted; the missiles were significantly faster than most large-grid vessels, even fast ones like corvettes, but with the current "balance" the concept is shot. Waiting to see how things turn out. Barring yet more sea changes, that's the final version (the ones launching in the pic are an earlier version of the decoys). Purely ballast based, though if the ballast gets stuck inside the enemy ship it can do some damage there too. Two medium containers full of iron ingots; you get worse penetration with gravel, but it's rather cheaper.
     
  4. 3eepoint Junior Engineer

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    926
    Thanks for the prise on the dock ! The Wheelconstruct shown is for wielding bot-arms at the side, a bit like your dock, the moveable gate will be placed at the bottom of the cradle.

    Why did you give up on that system ?
     
  5. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

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    2,597
    The mechanisms involved were so large that it became prohibitively expensive, not to mention a nightmare to manage. I had a giant, two-tracked crane-thing for movement one direction, which had another crane running along a track set in its topside for movement 90 degrees from that. It was good in theory, terrifying in practice. :eek:

    Decided to redo my anti-ship missile from scratch; it's just too big, nearly 4 large blocks in length, and penetration has been a little iffy since the last couple patches. I want this to be a PMW that's useful to smaller large-grid ships, and the current one is just too chunky.

    I started with a single medium cargo container filled with iron ingots and two batteries, and tested the penetration of that. This time, I put the cargo container aft of the batteries, on the basis that it contains the bulk of the projectile's mass. The batteries can soak up damage while the container remains intact; that's the theory at least. Penetration of that is very good, an easy 10 heavy.

    Then I started adding the necessary items; a connector so the medium container can be loaded after it's constructed, and a merge block so it can detach from the launcher. This time I put the merge block opposite the connector to minimize length; as a fortunate side effect, when missiles are loaded while traveling, they can be secured on two sides, one with the rotor and one with the connector lock, so that helps.

    What I've got so far is this:
    [​IMG]

    It's about 36 tonnes, hits max speed in ~12.5 seconds; slower than I would like, honestly. It's also not as small as I'd hoped; 15 small blocks long. I think this is about as small as you can make them; might be able to lose one of the batteries and replace the large thrusters with more small ones, but the majority of the mass would still be there, so it would end up being slower. It has 4 artificial mass blocks, so you can launch it out a gravity gun if you want; it's meant to have a gravity assisted launch so the thrusters don't mess up the launch tube. Penetration is reliably ten blocks deep, and 2-3 blocks wide.

    Edit: early version at the moment of contact.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2015
  6. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,863
    Cargo mass + small grid thruster power reqs really hurt the min size of PMWs. Most of my designs used a two cargo container system, but now that thing flies like an absolute slug. I also like to have a lot of lateral thrust on my torps so that they have a chance of intercepting FACs and death cubes.

    I also have a pointy nose cone...but if you're getting 10 layers with a battery I'm just going to delete all of that extra mass.

    Have you tried using a large stack of small grid containers instead of med ones?
     
  7. iN5URG3NT Senior Engineer

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    1,132
    Sorry to hijack, but I'm looking for a sound small grid Grav projectile design for a destroyer and you guys seem to have been doing some good research. I would have gone for a classic blast door variant, but it seems that may not be the best option now. I want to avoid warheads, but can an inert small grid torpedo actually do any damage these days? Also, I've never done much with Ore Bombs, are they worth the extra complication in survival?
     
  8. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

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    2,597
    I dunno, compared to what the Gladius is hauling around these are downright petite; they'll fit in a large grid space that's 1x1x3.

    Not yet; the conveyors needed to load them after welding would eat up a lot of the volume, though.

    Very much so, though fine tuning the physics is a pain sometimes. I had to strip much of the light armor detailing from what I posted above because it magically stopped working halfway though testing. But once they're working, they can do a lot of damage.

    I've actually never made an ore bomb, so I'm not sure.
    What I'm using is really a derivative of Whiplash's KAPUT weapon, but with full cargo containers in place of spaceballs. It's not a true ore bomb because the ingots aren't released to cause damage; they just hang out and lend mass. I really don't know how effective ingots alone are at causing damage right now.
     
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  9. iN5URG3NT Senior Engineer

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    1,132
    Thanks, I see you are using a battery as the "nose". Is this because penetration is better with non deformable blocks? Are blast doors no longer any good?
     
  10. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,863
    I've never had much luck with blast doors increasing damage for small grids.

    Is ore still doing damage in .096? If so ore bombs are still the most devastating option providing you don't have many of them operating simultaneously (it seems to cause massive amounts of phasing). You can check out my design, which is a reverse engineer of @Howitz's torp. I think it's on my workshop.

    I haven't tested much, but I fired a couple post .096 and they were doing a lot of bouncing, I think the deformation threshold is causing serious problems for floater damage as a weapon.

    They are honestly really easy to built, easier than a kinetic torp which seems very sensitive to particular block placement these days.
     
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  11. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,597
    Can you get a good spread with ore bombs? Wondering if I should design one to put out a cloud of debris to target fast movers.
     
  12. Agnar Apprentice Engineer

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    431
    Large grid blast doors may be somewhat less reliable damage wise right now, but their possible damage output has also gone up significantly since the update. They are also cheap, easy weapon systems to install and work around, and more reliable concerning projector and merge block bugs, so for a dumb fire main weapon system on a destroyer, I feel they are still the way to go.
     
  13. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,863
    You can with gravity generators on large grid ore bombs since you can fuse far away from the target and then push the floaters outwards, but for small grids they preserve the velocity vector of the block they were in and mostly travel in a clump at first but then spread out as they deflect through the target innards. It seems like floaters phase one hell of a lot though and aren't dealing the damage they should, but at least they don't entirely phase like kinetics can sometimes or randomly just bounce/glance off paper thin armor cuz "physics".
     
  14. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

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    2,597
    Pity. I was hoping you could get a cone effect when the missile exploded to increase the chances of hitting.

    Good to know about the damage changes! Haven't really fiddled with the Gladius since release. So for a battleship I'm thinking of doing eventually, it sounds like an effective loadout would be:

    • one or two dumb-fire spinal mounts for long-range bombardment/targets that get caught in front of you up close
    • Multiple launchers for guided missiles for targets that are likely to dodge the main gun
    • Fixed rocket launchers for when range is closed, possibly turreted.
    • Turrets for close defense.
     
  15. Howitz Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    591
    BOOOOOHHH! COMPLETELY USELESS AND CAP LOCKED POST FOR MY BUDDY DWARF
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,597
    This is the moneymaker of the new, small-grid PMWs. You need more stuff to delivery it to the target obviously, but this is what does the actual damage. Instant death; just add iron!

    And this is what it does at max speed, after clipping through the outer layer of the Gladius' superstructure.

    In summary:
     
  17. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,597
    On the downside, the jumbo, 200,000 kilogram projectile I was testing for a battleship does exactly the same amount of damage to a large target as the medium cargo container. Plus, slamming the Overkill into the nose of the Gladius just made a little "dink" noise and dented some of the blocks. Collisions are very weird right now.

    I think I might have taken out a camera, though.
     
  18. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,597
    Today I learned: STOVL craft will actually work. Tested the Petrel with the Enhanced Gravity Generators mod (which is awesome, BTW) to see how it handles without slapping AM blocks on it.

    The results were interesting. The Petrel doesn't have enough ventral thrusters to boost itself into the air on them alone (though it can drift straight down at a leisurely 6 m/sec); however, if you can get the nose into the air, the aft thrusters + the ventral ones acting on dampeners are enough to take off much like a conventional aircraft. Technically, it doesn't need to be moving forward when you get the nose up; it has enough gyros to bounce the nose up into the air at a standstill, and then you can just gun it. For some reason though, this feels a little harder to do than raising the nose while moving. I've been testing it at 1.2 gravities, both because I believe that's the max planets will have based on what folks are saying, and because ICly that's Ardentrall's gravity. ;)

    This is all good news for me, because true VTOL craft seem to require a very large number of thrusters on small grids; with this, you basically design as normal, with a few extra thrusters on the bottom. The wheels are a bonus, since they're very good for absorbing the landing. I don't know how accurate that mod is to the real thing, but it's encouraging. It's also a good thing that it can land at full speed still; I prefer precision landings, but as noted above, it takes a lot of thrust to keep airborne in this gravity, and that is best done with a combination of ventral and aft thrusters ... which means forward movement much of the time. It's fascinating how similar (in some ways) it is to aerodynamics; I actually put the Petrel in a stall earlier, by lifting the nose so much the ventral thrusters weren't providing enough lift. You can also perform this stall maneuver, which is rather fun. Pics below.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Made a few adjustments to the Petrel, mainly removing the retractable landing gear. They were cute, but troublesome, and the rotors kept nearly buckling under the weight. The new wheels are mounted to the fuselage, and have been working smoothly thus far, plus I freed up space for two ventral large thrusters. I've also been working on another planet related project.

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. iN5URG3NT Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,132
    That's encouraging, I wondered if that would work.

    That is one sexy Space Plane BTW.
     
  20. Whiplash141 Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    958
    Welcome to the club! :D
    [​IMG]
    Can't tell from the pics, but is the nose angled upward? The Shortbow may look a bit silly but she can get off the ground at only 30 m/s. With the Shortbow's acceleration, that gives it a takeoff distance of 31.65m! :D I'd love to see the Petrel, can't wait!!!

    Edit: I just tested the suspension wheels on the Shortbow under hard landings, they survived 30 m/s downward velocity before explosions occurred :)
     
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  21. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,597
    Dude! Sweet! I haven't had any luck making a strike craft planet-worthy yet, but that looks fantastic! And you've got room to wheel ordnance under the merge blocks on the wings! I foresee this becoming my go-to vehicle for ground attack missions; kinda like an A-10, honestly.
    Thank you! She's coming right along, should be good for release soon. The nose is not angled up; all the wheels are on the same level. And I've found that it is easiest to get "airborne" while moving forward at about 25 m/s, which is pretty close to what you found with the Shortbow. Seems to be some physics-y reason behind it.

    Straight down at 30 m/s? That's a very robust system.


    So, as you can tell from the pics, I've been working on planetary stuff lately, but most of it's been non-combat (for a change), and it's all been going surprisingly quickly. I've finally got a ground-based mule that I'm happy with, and it's versatile enough that I can use it for a bunch of things. Folks, meet the Ranger:

    The Ranger is meant to be the kind of vehicle you really want to have with you if you get stranded somewhere, or decide to go roughing in the outback for a while. The solar panel on the top means you can get energy almost anywhere that isn't underground, and it has 4 small reactors if you happen to have any uranium to spare; it can store power in two batteries, so you shouldn't have to waste any, and if solar's all you've got, you can keep working at night. It has an oxygen generator if you're on a planet with a hostile atmosphere, and two oxygen tanks. I would recommend tanking up fully before leaving. It has two medium cargo containers, and a connector that will hook up to a large grid one mounted on the surface it's riding on if you drop the suspension fully. I might add a couple small containers as tool lockers as well. Antenna and beacon, probably going to give it a backup antenna, and it has a remote control if you happen to need that for ... some reason. Needs a couple cameras. You can raise the suspension if the going gets rough, and setting the wheels' power to max lets it hit a surprisingly high speed (though if you try to turn at those speeds, it'll flip). All-heavy construction for durability.

    But wait! There's more!

    The Ranger also has a flatbed variant, which can be converted into a bunch of different things (the one with the turret was begun about 5 minutes after I saw the Sabiroid pictures). So far, we've got passengers, laser comms, defense (there's a rocket version of that turret; turns out balancing turrets in gravity so they aren't stuck pointing down is dashed tricky), and recovery. The idea is that you can build one vehicle in survival, and refit it with very little work as the situation demands.

    Now, the recovery one spawned its own, new vehicle line. I started the recovery variant first, after flipping the base model (oops) and realizing that in survival I would need something that was able to right things like that. This cannot do that as I'm still struggling with cranes, but it can at least tow a decent load back to base so you can fix things there. But when I tested it, I tested it by trying to tow a crashed Petrel ... on the basis that I'll probably end up crashing that a lot.

    And it couldn't cut it. The Petrel's too heavy, and those little wheels Keen gave us aren't up to the task. So after sitting there flailing at it for a while, I found myself feeling morose and wishing I had something bigger, something stronger, something designed to haul really heavy loads.

    Oh, wait. I do.

    I have a friggin' tank.

    I popped the turret off a Grendel, slapped a few landing gears on the back, and it started hauling that thing around without batting an eye. It has 10 wheel sets, all rotor-based, and the torque at the time wasn't even maxed. So that got me thinking: the Grendel is much slower than the Ranger, but can haul heavier loads, and performs much better in really rough terrain (it made it half-way around one of DuneD's Saturn moons despite losing a wheel along the way). Sooo ... what if I take its drive system, and mount a Ranger's body on top of that?

    This is the Warden, the Ranger's bigger brother. The fittings are pretty much the same and it has the same variants -- it's just slower, a bit heavier, more powerful, and much better at off-roading. TBH, this is the one you want if stranded on an alien world; the Ranger's good, but it's better for more settled areas, or at least flatter ones. I'm not sure what the upper limit on the Warden's towing abilities are, but after failing to tow a Shinano (I got ambitious, OK?), I cut the front end of the corvette off, and it did manage to make it twitch around a little.

    So I took my tank, and turned it into a hauler. But what if you want to haul the tank?

    By air?


    This brute is the Ajax. And yes: it can carry tanks, albeit only in a terrifyingly unstable manner which demonstrates just how desperately we need joystick support in this game ... but it can carry them. I tested it by cruising around with a Grendel for about a kilometer. Unlike those ground vehicles, it has only one job, and that is to carry big things. I was hoping to be able to haul around one hundred metric tons, but it can't quite manage that. It handles the Warden without batting an eye though, and since it's mostly meant to be support for an industrial colony, I'm content with that.
    The Ajax is pure VTOL; it has 12 large ventral thrusters, and without a load it climbs very quickly. The pistons can be lowered to grab what you need, and together they can lift it clear of the ground. The Ajax has a couple cameras on the bottom to help lining up over what you're carrying if it isn't running on its own power. There are buttons on the sides of the engine pods so you can control the "winch" manually if that works better for you. Unlike these other industrial vehicles, this is all light armor, so despite the chunky look it's going to need some babying. However, because it's light, it can do its job better. Building one of these is going to be a priority for me when making planetfall, because I know I'm going to flip something. I also suspect I'll end up using it a lot to carry cargo, which is the other function it has beside transporting or recovering vehicles. If you have a friend mining ore and loading it into containers on site, you can bring them a fresh container and take the old one away for refining.

    Anyway, that's it for the industrial set for now. My next goal, after getting a grader variant built for the Ranger/Warden, is to revisit my modular station stuff and make sure it will work on the ground as well as in space, and built the necessary modules (ones with some stairs). If it does, and if I don't need to restandardize it again, then I can get that, the big cranes, and the shipyard trundled out with these vehicles (and that hangar, which has been working for me. Needs a crane in the ceiling, though).
     
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  22. Whiplash141 Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    958
    *Blush* Why thank you! :) Looks like I need to get my weapon sequencing script and my CAS package out for her :D



    Wow. I might need to retire from SE for a while as I recover my oxygen.

    Oh and regarding the Warden's drive system, does it use the same drive programs as the Grendel? If so I could possibly streamline them into one program. Also, a "full stop" button would work wonders as I could never bring the MBT to a halt without frantically resetting the rotor velocities to zero before I went off a ledge to my doom :p

    Edit: on second thought, combining it into one script would mean that ppl would need to know which button does what in advance as arguments aren't displayed on the toolbar (and no one ever reads instructions lol) so that might be an issue; still working on the script for fun tho :p
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2015
    • Like Like x 1
  23. Whiplash141 Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    958
    Ok I combined the scripts and simplified the code for ya :) Tested it on the Grendel and it works fine for me; I even added a full stop function :pbjt: Using this code, axles only need the name "Rotor - Left Axle" or "Rotor - Right Axle"; the numbers are optional but the script will sort them regardless if their presence. :)

    I have some ideas for improvement that I shall implement tomorrow:
    • Triggering "Forward" or "Backward" will equalize rotor velocities I dun did it :D
    • Add precise input for rotor velocities
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2015
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  24. iN5URG3NT Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,132
    Wow! The Ajax is a stunner! Nice one DLP!
     
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  25. Whiplash141 Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    958
    Ok Dwarfy, I updated the script! It now does the following: When you hit "reverse" or "advance" it equalizes the rotor velocities (and rounds the velocities down to multiples of 5 as the "Increase Velocity" function operates on 5's) so that you go in a straight line with no hassle! :D

    Edit: Nevermind, the increase velocity function works with multiples of 12 o_O Will change accordingly.
    Edit 2: Revision 8 is published, now operates on multiples of 12 so that speed stays consistent :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2015
  26. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,597
    I'm glad you guys like. :) The Ajax started out based off of this, and then ended up going someplace a bit more like this once I realized how tall it would have to be. It ended up looking much better than I thought it would -- and, amazingly, you can reach the cockpit without a ladder. Or jet boots. But you do have to jump. I also improved its lifting ability a fair bit by shifting the winch arrangement further forward; the center of gravity had drifted away from the winch, so it was wasting a lot of lift. It's much easier to fly than it looks like it should be, though it handles more like some of the craft in Planetside 2 than anything else I can think of. A joystick would still be handy, though, as you have to constantly drift the nose down gently. Might set up a gyro override for that in the meantime.
    [​IMG]

    Aaah, yes. Yeah, when I drive the Grendel, my keyboard tends to suffer mightily. And it does use the same program, but I'm going to give your awesome new one a try tomorrow; thank you so much for setting that up!

    Today was "make the Ranger actually useful off-road" day, because it wasn't really. I moved the wheels down one block and moved the front ones forward so it didn't have that massive overhang that prevented it from climbing even a 1/2 slope. On @tankmayvin's advice, I added a gyro to improve stability, and after gawping at @Ravric's new Dawnstar vehicle, I also added a recovery system, so it doesn't need a crane to right itself anymore ... though mine is a bit less elegant than his. Tested it out in the awesome Bloodgulch map, with the gravity turned up to 1.2 as usual for testing. Works fine, apart from occasionally just flipping it over the other way. So, now it's a real off-road vehicle.
    [​IMG]

    I'm in the process of fitting the Warden with the same system. While working on that, I decided to see just how much it can pull. It occurred to me that the test with the Shinano wasn't fair, due to the friction of the hull on the runway, and, well:

    [​IMG]
    Yeah ... only about 1.4 m/s or so, but pretty decent, considering that's a corvette it's hauling.
     
  27. Tyriosh Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    478
    [​IMG]

    I might need to copy this :p
     
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  28. iN5URG3NT Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,132
    Get in line! :D
     
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  29. Tateo13TTV Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    524
    --- Hijacks half of the first production run---
    -Tateo-
     
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  30. Dwarf-Lord Pangolin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,597
    Break from ground vehicles since the PMWs are working once more.


    ~adds missile artillery launcher to his to-do list~
     
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