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An Impassioned plea to the developers.

Discussion in 'General' started by RayvenQ, Apr 20, 2016.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Ed Frost Senior Engineer

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    yes. and the way they are handling it now is causing it drifting away from the original goal, better said "they are not doing any more what they advertised with"
     
  2. Speshal_Snowman Apprentice Engineer

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    From Marek's Blog Post ,"The original vision for Medieval Engineers was solid (medieval technology, sandbox, physical interaction, realism, survival, intuitive and easy manipulation of volumetric environment, etc.) but during the past year we diverged from these core principles. I’m not satisfied with the current state of the game, and it’s time for us to refocus and consolidate.

    It’s time to make Medieval Engineers more exciting, fun, and streamlined."
     
  3. Ed Frost Senior Engineer

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    its sad i cant put more than 1 line undereneath a word....
     
  4. dudeburga Trainee Engineer

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    just made an account to say I totally agree with the sentiments of the original post, most of the fun of an engineering game is the details in realizing a project

    I like having to set up infrastructure to facilitate for greater construction projects, IE building welder/grinder/miner drones and a conveyor system for them to dock with

    in short, most of the fun of a game like this is in facilitating for your own convenience to overcome physical limitations

    edit: whoops, wrong game
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2016
  5. ZoqFot Trainee Engineer

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    The thing is though that before the updates that kicked this whole thing off, most people were happy with the direction, just a bit frustrated at the slow pace. We could see where it was heading, just wanted it to give a bit more along the way. Now we're not sure even what direction it is heading in and the updates are becoming somewhat baffling. We no longer know where we are going, how we are going to get there or even what will be at the end. The roadmap was just cryptic with "streamlined" thrown around a lot. It was not the encouragment it was intended to be. I'll keep an eye on the updates but frankly all the blueprint and workbench and slots changes have made it an even harder game to play than it was before.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. RayvenQ Moderator

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    I was worried about the last handful of updates, but now that all the blocks of that specific set are out, it makes more snese, and it's done in a good way as these blocks are an option, not a total replacement, to things you could actually do.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. waterlimon Senior Engineer

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    As long as theyre an option, there is zero incentive for the devs to make the alternative work properly.

    Gate block? Add nice health bar, cool effects, let only people you want operate it, ensure it lasts exactly as many seconds as designer intended.
    Custom gate? Whatever, let it glitch out of existence when hit and take the castle with it, let anyone disassemble it from outside in 2 seconds, we got a nice polished built in alternative (if you just make your entrance this specific size, exactly this long and wide and thick, operated exactly like this, and dont care about that custom wooden faction symbol you built on it).

    Thats pretty much how its going to go.

    Every time they add a built in replacement for some small-block construction, thats admitting that "we couldnt figure out how to make it enjoyable and practical to build one yourself". Which might be true for some of these things and rightly so, but thats why it doesnt make me happy when it happens.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  8. RayvenQ Moderator

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    Maybe the incentive is that they actually want to make the alternative work properly? Just because these blocks are added, doesn't mean them working on the alternative isn't ever going to happen or is somehow mutually exclusive.

    These aren't replacements, they're options, nothing has been removed, nothing except yourself is stopping you from making it the old way. While bieng able to open a portcullis that is custom made way too easily, I'd expect that'd be something they'll look at in the future.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Ed Frost Senior Engineer

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    seems we kinda have a victory....
     
  10. RayvenQ Moderator

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    Yeah, we did, I know it seems a bit of a bittersweet update, since while we're getting back stuff that got removed, and some improvements to it, the fact we're going on a stable release with no more weekly updates, the game is in good hands, I've been talking a lot to Deepflame, and I think it's a really good thing that he's in a leadership role now. We'll have to see how the whole stable update goes. But I think it may be for the best, which I know isn't what a lot of people want to hear given the whole lack of content history with this game, we'll just have to wait and see, it also makes sense since SE will be shifting to a similar thing too. With restructuring, there's always going to be a period of adjustment.

    But I encourage you all to start playing it again, even with things in a bit of a hiatus, to show them that this is what we wanted, to keep their spirits up and see people enjoying the game.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  11. fourthquantum Senior Engineer

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    I may give this a bit more of a try after that. I bought the game a few months ago and its not really sparked my interest because the medieval era isn't my 'thing', it doesn't interest me. For this game to 'stand out' the idea of farming sparked my interest a little.
     
  12. RayvenQ Moderator

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    With that being the case, for you, I'd probably suggest holding off until the game has a few more features and/or Farming (which, as far as I'm aware is sitll planned, been no statements that its not) before playing, or it might cause you to get frustrated with the game.
     
  13. Ed Frost Senior Engineer

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    id indeed love to see farming as well.... or at least some sort of extra ways to attain food.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Donut64 Trainee Engineer

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    volume inventory. farming. flesh out the Barbarian attacking mechanic. Go fantasy. Add werewolf packs and other light-fearing beasties and friendlies, like dwarves and kobolds

    yes I know the game is about engineering, but with the volume inventory we have a challenge. then we need something to drive that challenge.
     
  15. RayvenQ Moderator

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    Going fantasy would do pretty much nothing for the game except turn people away from the game.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. Ed Frost Senior Engineer

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    yup
     
  17. ZoqFot Trainee Engineer

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    Yeah, keep fantasy as a mod. There's already plenty of games that cater to the fantasy area. Stick to the engineering side. Less competition in that area.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Ed Frost Senior Engineer

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    indeed.
     
  19. RkyMtnDude Apprentice Engineer

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    For me, I purchased it with the bundle. Thought it would be cool but just felt like a slightly more advanced minecraft with a huge limit on map size. I have tried to start but I just can't find anything exciting to me. Where my eyebrow perks up is when I start thinking about SE and Planets, thinking it would be so very cool to this be a tech level on a planet with the planet ultimately being a link to ME server. Then, come out with other "Engineers" as tech cultures in SE. What a hoot to land on one planet with ME players, and then another planet with "Caveman" engineers. I think that if it could be done and you had maybe three tech cultures other than modern SE and incorporated it within the game somehow.. especially MP, that it would round out both games. I just have this nagging feeling that ME will never really have a fan base worthy of extensive development. But what do I know? I could kot have predicted that Axis and Allies board game would end up as a community developed open source project better than the board game. Carry on.
     
  20. ZoqFot Trainee Engineer

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    There have been a few steps back but they seem to be heading in the right direction again. To really take off this game will need quite a few more things to separate it from the minecraft mindset. Minerals, ores etc add flavour but don't change all that much gameplaywise. Farming, flowing water and actual functional AI will be the milestones I think that will take this game where it needs to go. Planets are great but it's not going to change the basic function of the game in any meaningful way. I doubt we'll see a major influx of new players untile these particular milestones are reached. The AI in particular. The ability to have a fully functioning village with workers will make all the difference to this game. Hopefully we'll see the fruits of GoodAI's labour in the future.
     
  21. Ed Frost Senior Engineer

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    i partially agree with this.
    indeed farming and better ai would be milestones, but ores, smithing and the like are also milestones. About water, it would be a technological milestone, but gameplay wise it would make an impact true, but its overrated
     
  22. Tenzo Apprentice Engineer

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    Regardless of what direction they decide to go with in regards to survival and castle sieges, and how you work with inventory around you and how you don't...

    Please bring back the old compound block system to CREATIVE MODE. If only in creative mode and nowhere else. That's all I want from the game, to build things in an unobstructed manner. The rest is just gravy. I don't see anything in Marek's blog that gives me hope that bringing back the old building system without "Big Brother" watching your block combinations is ever going to be brought back.

    This makes me very disappointed and sad because I can't finish my creations.

    It has really painted Keen in a negative light for me and nothing in Marek's blog has renewed my interest in ME. It sounds like they're going to "do more of the same", but behind the scenes, so that the community doesn't get as much of a chance to whine each and every update about how there is no new content and not have to basically hand out premade blocks that we should be tasked to build ourselves in game, as a rite of passage: for example, gates and doors to our castles and houses, drawbridges to our walls. Instead of fixing the wonky system of building mechanical things, the unintuitive way of placing them as functioning pieces in your buildings, and in general, expanding on the system in order to create a true "engineering" title.

    I was so excited when Last Stand Gamers were making mining carts and cable cars that worked on ropes and pulleys. Six months later I still can't fit a working siege resistant gate inside my walls. there is a "Big Brother" construction mode that has eliminated freeform block placement from the game, there is not even a mention of water anymore, not even those "water bottles", a redundant barbarian AI that breaks through stone walls with wooden clubs, no real attempt at introducing more real engineering physics like gear acceleration or even something as simple as wind.

    The game is dumbed down and "streamlined" into something that it didn't start out as.

    No mention of bringing compound blocks to SE either. Wasn't that the point of working on ME at the same time in the first place? Or did I hallucinate reading the original announcement blogs about ME?

    Just very disappointing. The original version of ME was more of a game than the butchered and maimed version that is currently up on Steam. And working on planets?... Really? This is MEDIEVAL ENGINEERS. How exactly are we going to travel between planets in a Medieval iron age? Build a wooden portal that transports us magically from one planet to another? Oh, I got it. We are going to catapult ourselves from one planet to the other. That's brilliant!

    Have you guys lost your minds? Whatever happened to WATER? The original ambitious plan on bringing volumetric water, so we can build aqueducts and such? That "complex algorithm" you guys were working on? Oh, that's right, you're just porting over code from Space Engineers whether or not a feature that makes any sense at all, in the game.

    It is so laughable. People are sensibly suggesting things like, agriculture and simple medieval things, basic quality of life features, and you are talking about planets. PLANETS. In MEDIEVAL ENGINEERS. I don't even have words. This title has completely lost its original proof of concept and inception. Complete 180.

    Personally, I think you have run out of money. You started too many projects at once, and didn't finish either of them, and when the funds are starting to get low, you are rushing out reused code and crippling these titles that many people have enjoyed even in the basic state that they were in prior. You have wasted both time and money to continue to push and innovate them in the right direction. All I can ask is that you stop butchering them, if you will not continue to innovate them further. And please give us back the old freeform building system, even as an unsupported "legacy feature" that we can use in creative mode just for old times sake.

    This applies to both the old inventory system and the new one. Why not have both? Give the player an option which one they want to use. SE has a ton of options like that, old building system, new building system, etc. It wasn't butchered in the way ME is getting maimed in features.

    Then you can continue adding space planets and maybe strange, alien pirates raining down lasers on poor medieval castles, and a new castle gate 6 months from now, while you wait on the modders to finish your games. I don't care. But I want that stuff back because it was a lot more fun with it in the game.
     
  23. Ed Frost Senior Engineer

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    i agree with the compound things.... there are some combinations i need in my designs... but cant do them anylonger.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  24. Sofa Apprentice Engineer

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    Like just about everyone else, I've been a little bummed about Medieval Engineers' recent developments. However, I maintained hope that it would come back around, maybe not as we originally knew it, but nevertheless as something that stood out. After finally getting around to watching the Dev Vlogs, though, it looks pretty clear that's not going to happen. The small planets they're working with as new maps look cartoonish, and they seem dead-set on centering the game around engineering, despite the major downgrades they've made to the building system lately - Originally, I could forgive the "streamlining" as long as there was a greater emphasis on other mechanics (such as survival, combat, strategy/kingdom management).

    I imagine I'll keep checking in when content updates start up again, but at this point, I can't see myself playing it regularly anymore.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  25. Harrekin Master Engineer

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    Dude... they specifically said they havent even settled on the scale of the planets yet let alone the details to make them more life like.
     
  26. RayvenQ Moderator

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    I'd say give them a fair chance to turn things around, it's going to take a while for the whole turning around to take shape and actually happen, slowed somewhat by them bringing in planets.

    Yeah I don't like the downgrades to the building either, but having talked with Deepflame, it was done for a variety of reasons, not just to dumb it down, besides I'm sure we'll see more blocks added in the future that'll allow more combinations and fill in some of the gaps.

    As for the other things, again, as much as it pains me to say, we have to wait for things to turn around and get better, not only because of the reorganisiation and re-evaluating things that comes with it, but because it takes time for what they're working on to come to fruition. I'm sure the features that you mentioned will be added to in the future.
     
  27. Tenzo Apprentice Engineer

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    For me, it doesn't matter how many more "block combinations" they add, because it will never be like it was before: placing stone blocks like they were clay - plopping them down next to one another or intersecting while naturally creating new blocks or "patterns" in the stone just by interacting with this concept alone. Yes, even with a limited amount of blocks, I was able to create the illusion of additional blocks by creating variations that fundamentally altered the perception of what was placed in said square. It reminded me of my childhood love of Origami. It was glorious.

    An amazing move forward for voxel based, creative titles.

    Whatever their reasons for doing away with it, they are wrong, wrong, wrong to have even thought of removing the original proof of concept of compound blocks. It is an absolute travesty.

    Z fighting? Then project your textures after you have a set grid, don't set them in stone, so to speak, (in the original block model), along with destruction physics, if they are meant to work like clay. Is anyone on your team familiar with Zbrush? Their entire premise is based on 2d/2.5d projection into creating true 3d art. You are a voxel based title, and you couldn't figure out how to take a base fluctuating 3d grid and project a stone texture on it properly? It's not like you even had multiple textures to worry about, you had ONE TEXTURE. Stone. It's not even an organic grid, so the "fluctuations" of compound building should not have been so difficult for your team if they thought in a correct manner about the problem and came up with an elegant solution. An innovative solution.

    Instead, you came up with nothing and butchered the title. An "iter" function's programming worth that basically iterates to the user, what block combinations they are allowed to create. And your solution to the problem you have created, is to expand the iter() function. Marek, I really thought you were a clever person, but now I am just disappointed and disillusioned. I thought you were a better team leader than this. If you are reading this post personally, I hope these words can instill some of that old brazen and overly ambitious determination to create not just games but true ground breaking titles that crossed the borders of real world application and the way we thought about gaming with voxels.

    Make us all believe again! :(

    Until you can return to the "old Marek".... well,

    I hope a clever modder out there is able to create a mod that turns "Big Brother" off, and compound blocks return to the glory they used to be. Give me back my Origami blocks!
     
  28. Scorpion00021 Senior Engineer

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    I did like the old compound blocks. A lot. It was something that set ME aside from other block building games. It was a bit clunky at times, but it worked pretty well overall. While I'm sure they removed it for some technical reason or complication, I wish they would release their reasoning for doing so.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
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