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And once again....

Discussion in 'Survival' started by Aven Valkyr, Mar 17, 2014.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Aven Valkyr Trainee Engineer

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    69
    this game lags to a grinding halt. Take your "its alpha" and shove that argument up your *** if you are about to use it. Also "buy a better computer".. to which I make the same statement. People in my world who have 32 gigs of ram with an 8 gig video card and a 16 core processor are lagging so bad they can't play any more. I don't have much, just a ship with 4 refineries and a couple reactors, a few lights, maybe 4 small utility ships, 1 small cruiser and the framework of a station which is set inside an asteroid.

    I suggested a few things in the suggestions forum about the survival, such as public spawn points so people don't enter the world with a new starter ship every time. I suggested this to REDUCE LAG. Please devs, give us SOME reassurance that you are going to take measures to either optimize this game or do things to reduce lag, for example public spawn points in survival. there are also some things in creative that could be done as well.

    I will state again the things that can reduce lag that should be easy enough for you to look at. these are:

    Global changes:
    -Optimize RAM usage. Stop allowing the game to write unnecessary files to the GPU, CPU or RAM that the hard drive could be handling instead (read: page files).
    -Make gryo's do a much better job, so we don't need as many of them. Gryo's are causing the CPU to over-exhert itself and do a crapload of math. This is slowing the game down.
    -Lighting vectors.. the lighting in this game goes a LONG way to cause lag. Something must be done about this. Perhaps going back to the page file suggestion (use that hard drive)
    -Make objects disappear from the game after they reach 25,000 meters from any beacon. Not sure if this is already implemented but if it's not, implement it.
    -Damage: Anything with a slight amount of damage is causing huge amounts of processing to render. Any time something gets even slightly damaged the game stalls big time.

    Survival changes:
    -Public spawn point. Every time someone enters a world they spawn a new starter ship. This is EXTREMELY annoying as they cause immense amounts of lag within a short time if you have several ppl coming to your server. Medbays that actually do their job in spawning the person that placed it would work towards this goal.

    I'm not trying to rant here and I'm sorry if that's what this is sounding like. But if like last time your comment is nothing more than "stop whining" or "get a better computer" then you are the idiot with nothing but empty words to spout here.

    After 3 days of playing survival, this game is going back on the shelf. I was content to never play it again. It was fun, and I gave my suggestions about it, now the lag has totally killed it for me, again. So that is both creative AND survival that the lag has killed it for. How many little tiny ships can I make before the game gets insanely boring. I'm so super bored already now that I know I can't go any further with this game. Alpha or not, adding more features to the game and ignoring the #1 problem is only going to get you nowhere in the end. I'm sorry... but it's the truth. 90% of your market has older computers that will never run this game if you release it like this and how quickly will word get out that you need a gold plated computer to play it. Pretty quick. You will loose most of your market just from that alone. Otherwise, if it wasn't for the lag, I would love this game and do nothing but play it. I put over 5000 hours into minecraft and could have spent more .. easily. I've put 50 hours into this game and it drives me friggin nuts. So please fix it. Thanks..
     
  2. Valdemar |FIN| Junior Engineer

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    631
    This game is still in alpha! That's the only reasonable argument to your rage post, despite that you seemingly know this. Optimizations will be OBVIOUSLY implemented, there is no denying that. Other than that KeenSW has done excellent job developing the game so far. This is, or rather this will be one of the best games in Steam. Also your computer has to meet the system requirements, or it's no hope to get even sub-optimal experience out of this.
     
  3. Jikanta Apprentice Engineer

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    418
    64 Bit Operating System, Win7. Dual Core Pentium 3.2GHz ,RAM of 6GB, 1 gig video card. Yes I run on the lowest setting. But the game is hardly impossible for me to play. Actually I can even run the biggest map without too much drop in frame rate. Don't get me started on debri from collisions. I've gutted many a ship in the workshop with my ram frigates.

    My point? I don't have a gaming rig. I don't spend that kind of money. But I play this just fine. Maybe it's something with your PC? I'm no expert though.

    Hint on price? I bought this PC at Walmart =p
     
  4. Aven Valkyr Trainee Engineer

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    69
    it's not that. I guess what I'm saying is a game like this should be able to handle hundreds of builds, with up to 50 players working in the same world, everyone building ships, and working from stations, so on and so forth. This game is about building stuff.. you know.. it's the primary function of the game. But when the lag gets so bad eventually that you can't build stuff after a short while, it totally defeats the purpose of this game. I know I don't have the best computer out there, but it's not the worst either. I'm a computer tech (seriously) I've repaired laptops for a living for a while and so I know how to run a clean and well maintained computer. I know what I'm saying when this game is too laggy. More functions and more fluff isn't going to change anything in the end if things get so laggy people quit playing due to it. How many times can you start a new world and work on a new build before it gets totally redundant. The fun of the game is taken out when you realize that you can never have a small certain amount of blocks placed in the game and only a handful of math crunching elements such as lighting, thrusters and gryo's. I'm more than happy to upload my survival world just to prove to you that it doesn't take hardly anything at all to make this game insanely laggy. It shouldn't be like this. Alpha or not. There's enough features and functions in this game to allow for some very creative stuff, both in creative and survival mode. The lag kills it so badly it makes playing this game a chore.

    We should be able to have hundreds of LARGE builds, stations, and all kinds of shizz in one single world, WITH NO LAG. period. You can do it in minecraft but you can't do it here. And why is that? Because minecraft uses page files. The hard drive stores a lot of the non-essential information in each world. The worlds in this game load up with barely a scrap of information and it's up to the computer to process the rest. It shouldn't be that way. It shouldn't take an 8 gig video card with 16 gigs of ram and an 8 core processor to run a 1mb world. The game, at this point, needs to be optimized before any further work is done on it. Adding more features like functional conveyors isn't going to break the game at all if it gets optimized now. The game is damn near beta. Adding more stuff like working large ship turrets isn't going to break the optimization if the devs decide to persue that next. This game needs tweaking very badly. It would make playing it worthwhile.. it would make trying to achieve something big in this game viable and give most people something to DO while they wait for the smaller changes like assault rifles and many other suggestions that have been made. But at least the #1 function will be workable.. the ability to work as a community, or if not a community, at least the ability to run a large world and have several large projects on the go in one single world. I don't want to have to spend $5000 on a computer that can kinda sorta do that. I don't have that kind of money to spend on a gaming rig that can barely handle this game. It's just not right. I have 2 worlds, both extremely laggy, that I can upload to workshop, just to prove exactly what I'm saying.

    Edit: I realize the dev's were busy with creative mode and I can appreciate that. Creative was fun while it lasted. But here it is 3 days later and it just feels totally broken. It's not the little things such as conveyors that don't work.. no.. it's the lag. Same thing that happened with my creative experience. It was fun to work on my project while things were smooth but I can't believe how in such a short time with such a small build it lagged down to a halt. In this game you can only realize .0001% of the games potential because you can't build anything big. This needs to change... pronto.
     
  5. Valdemar |FIN| Junior Engineer

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    631
    Well, there is a developers vs moderators stream going to be today, you should check that out to see how serious issues they have with lag.
     
  6. Valdemar |FIN| Junior Engineer

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    631
    And to add to my previous posts; no one said that Space Engineers is one of those small, low-performance requiring games and I am sorry for you if you thought so.
    This is full-blooded physics game, and it requires a computer that can run games with bigger titles such as GTA V, CoD Ghosts or BF4.

    It is wrong to assume that games with big titles are only ones that require serious hardware. Just in case you thought like that.
     
  7. radam Senior Engineer

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    1,207
    11mb world in multiplayer: ram usage 2.5gb just SE, gpu memory load: 400mb, cpu load: about 60%, gpu load about 99%, framerate about 15 to 20 in a crowded area. I should however get some more ram in my build.
     
  8. ChaosUnlimited Trainee Engineer

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    97
    ... my system does not lag in this game at all unless i build a stupidly large ship that has 248,198,432 kg as mass and thas just armour blocks...
     
  9. ChaosUnlimited Trainee Engineer

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    97
    16 cores and what cpu is this person using?
     
  10. TheLightLOD Trainee Engineer

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    74
    It's your 3+ghz cpu probably, my laptops cpu can overclock to 3.4 Ghz but when i disable that so it stops at 2.4 Ghz the games runs significantly slower (3rd gen i7 quad btw).

    @ChaosUnlimited that 16core cpu is a double AMD Bulldozer series CPU i believe, it lags so much because the game mostly runs singlethreaded and you need a cpu with high clockspeeds... NOT a 16 core low speed bulldozer.

    Main things that make the game lag: number of objects, complex objects(lighting/interfaced stuf) number of asteroids(videocard lagger mainly).
     
  11. radam Senior Engineer

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    1,207
    Basically yeah the game doesnt seem to support multiple cores of CPU or GPU at this moment.
     
  12. marek_rosa Developer Staff

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    115
    I am throwing here the "performance advices" in case you haven't seen them:
    http://www.spaceengineersgame.com/performance-advices.html
     
  13. Ash87 Senior Engineer

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    1,977
    How many people do you have in your world?

    I have a great computer, so I host. Hosting doesn't depend only on computers, it depends on internet connections, where the person hosting Is relative to the people who are playing, and the internet connects of the people who are playing

    I play with people who have great connections, none of them had problems when I hosted, but another guy we play with tried to host... and it didn't work at All.

    Regardless of All of that though, I can only put about 7-8 people in my world before lag starts to become an issue.
     
  14. Aven Valkyr Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    69
    well great for all you who have high end computers. that's just great. hooray. and what I'm reading here is.. "my game doesn't lag unless I build something stupidly massive". And that's exactly my point.. it's what I'm getting at. Your "stupidly massive build" is absolutely friggin TINY compared to what you *should* be able to build in this game. I'm going to upload my worlds and you tell me that you don't lag in either of them and I will eat my own words.

    Edit: Although I will agree that I need a new and more updated computer. What I'm saying is that it doesn't take very long to worlds to stump even the best of computers. It needs to be dealt with. Uploads are on their way..
     
  15. Dcjxd Trainee Engineer

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    55
    What I'm reading here is: This sucks, this isn't what i want it to be when i want it to be. Everyone else can go f**k themselves if they don't agree with me. Dont tell me that this is still an alpha, i don't want to hear it because i know everything better because I know tech.
    Thats just great. hooray.
    Seriously, relax. You said it yourself: survival is 3 days out. For testing purposes.
    3!
    Days!
    Alpha!

    And cornening the lacking polish: I wouldn't temper a knife before it has its final shape. And exactly thats what the devs say on multiple platforms but try to fix some smaller bugs along the way that won't take too much time fixing. It helps us early access idiots with the actual playtests of the game. So just give it some time before complaining.
    After all, you brought the BEST example why you should wait. MINECRAFT.
    I was among those first 5000 who bought it, way before the hype. It was instable, buggy und amazingly feature free. I gave it time and it became a solid game. I installed some mods and it became a magnificent masterpiece forged in blocks. That took me about 2 years and a load of alpha und beta versions i don't regret having gone through. So.... relax.

    Edit: My rig could beat S.H.O.D.A.N. and skynet simultaneously in a battle of multidimensional chess and still lags after some time. Thats ok, at least for me. I'm enjoying this fancy tech demo.
     
  16. Aven Valkyr Trainee Engineer

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    69
    Avens World:
    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=239376188
    This is my survival map. Load it up and you will see what I mean. Take the gremlin for a rip and try mining with it. This world got to the point where it's super slow going now.

    GCSV Hyperion-IV
    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=239377068
    This was going to be my entry into the march to battleship contest. Hope you enjoy it.. it was my pride and joy... and then it got too laggy to work on. Like I can still move around in the world but it's absolutely painstaking to get anything done at this point.

    Now I will show you what this game SHOULD be able to handle:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKEbBX21igc Scroll to 6:40 to see this huge ship. 93 million blocks to build it. 93 MILLION BLOCKS. Not 2000 and then the game absolutely craps out on you. THIS is what I mean by .. the game needs to be optimized. We will NEVER see stuff this big in this game.
     
  17. Valdemar |FIN| Junior Engineer

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    631
    This is a voxel game!
    Do you know what is voxel? It is a 3d pixel. That means every cube has tons of those voxels to calculate. And with tons of cubes, you'll end up with tons of tons voxels which equals tons of lag.
    And lastly, THIS. GAME. HAS. SOME. SERIOUS. PHYSICS. IN. IT.
    Minecraft has next to no physics in it! If those mega-ships were mobile, and they would have procedurally generated collision models, it would lag hard. This is not Minecraft in space. This game doesn't run with Minecraft engine. This runs with VRAGE-engine. How you can't understand this?
     
  18. Aven Valkyr Trainee Engineer

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    69
    IT DOESN'T MATTER. Don't you get it? IF this game never realizes that kind of potential IT WILL FAIL. That's what I'm trying to say! People will never be able to work together or use any of the features if you are having to constantly start over because your world gets too big to continue working on. DON'T YOU GET IT? Yes you are right, there is more to this game. But the things I have suggested that could reduce lag are easily looked at. THere's a few SPECIFIC items in this game that cause CRAZY AMOUNTS OF LAG and if they were dealt with, we could see our build sizes quadrouple in size.

    People want persistant servers. WHat then? Have to start a new server every time?? WHY BOTHER? People want to be in a community where there's not only epic space stations all around but huge megabuilds and wicked space battles. This game will NOT get to that point until we start pressuring the devs to clean up the excessive memory usage in this game. There are things they CAN do to clean it all up. BUt noooo you guys want turrets that work on large ships. WTF? You still don't get it do you. F*CK this is the dummest EFFING community ever. DUMB. Alright have your content. When it gets released content rich but unable to friggin do anything in a world cause it keeps lagging, you will see how far your precious space engineers goes. I don't want to see this game fail I really don't.. but if people aren't able to really build massive scale projects this game is going to go NOWHERE. Physics or not. DO YOU UNDERSTAND???
     
  19. AstTheCat Trainee Engineer

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    34
    Chill man. Have you played the game around january? Those were haaard times man. I imagine what you've done then. Kicked the wall?
     
  20. Skeloton Master Engineer

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    4,069
    Sometimes i think you forget what alpha means.
     
  21. AstTheCat Trainee Engineer

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    All I ask Aven is that you give them some time. They're no beginners. And trust me, they know better than you.
     
  22. Ash87 Senior Engineer

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    1,977
    You know they have pills that help with that kind of cussing and caps locking in forum posts :)

    The game will be optimized, this is kind of one of those painfully obvious things that doesn't really require all that rage. The game is being bug fixed every week, heck from the survival post to yesterday, they had patched people being able to stand on ships in motion, and all the bugs I had observed the first night of survival. These problems will be sorted out, so I don't really see why we should be all worried about this. KSH has run a really stable alpha. Heck, of all the alphas I play or have interacted with recently, this is the only one I would call Stable, and running with enough features to at least call it a game, most are so hilariously under developed that you can barely boot the game and run it for a few hours without crashes, glitches, or game breaking unbalanced nonsense.
     
  23. Valdemar |FIN| Junior Engineer

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    631
    So, you want über massive scale objects? Visit workshop. There are plenty of huge projects. And there are people who built them. And if they can build them, and play them, that means their computers won't lag crazily. So I am afraid to tell you that your computer might not be able to handle the sheer amount of calculations happening. Your rage can be compared to a man who has crappy old pc, and when he plays BF4 it lags, and he starts shouting that the game sucks because it lags (because the computer is so slow). We can't make the game faster with snap of the fingers. It just doesn't work like that. This game wasn't meant to handle ultra-max-scale ships. But this game has potential to do so as long as your computer can keep up with it. If it can.

    And I'm happy to see that rest of the community enjoys this game extremely much. That includes me. Marek Rosa and his team of devs has done wonderful job so far.
     
  24. AstTheCat Trainee Engineer

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    34
    Very well said. My PC is old aswell so I keep playing the way this game is meant to be played. Not building any superstructures or megaships, whatever. I'm focusing on ships the size of the red and blue large ships. Maybe a little bit bigger.

    Also try lowering the game's rendering quality. I play on high and it's cool. Even in multiplayer with a bunch of guys and ships flying around.
     
  25. Stonewolf Junior Engineer

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    776
    You have mistaken my friend. This game is and will do well. The fact that it already has a strong community. The dumb part your experiencing is probably just me so just ignore that. :D After reading the link Marek posted, It answered your frustrations to the teeth, So I'm wondering if your just a troll. If not, maybe you should wait for the game to finish before you play it. Sure we get some lag but its more about the performance of our end if we build more than our machines can handle. I run a crappy old taped together from old parts, PC (Why? cause I can) But I'm still able to enjoy the game. Now I do understand you want to engineer mega machines, all I have for that in this point: Patience, young padawan :cool:

    We don't pressure our devs here. Look what they have put together so far. Its amazing. Now we do give them plenty of ideas and say what we don't like. We've already witnessed lot of our ideas in the game and no pressure was needed (as far as I know). KSH seems to know what they are doing. I've been playing this game since before it was on steam. Its just gotten better and better. I haven't liked every decision they've made but I've supported it all.

    If you like minecraft so much why are you not playing it? This game is more lego in space. Tho I have not played minecraft, so I can't really say much about the comparison.

    I do recommend that you calm down, not telling you to, just recommend. Your not going to get many to listen what your saying, if you say it with an attitude.
     
  26. LFCavalcanti Senior Engineer

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    1,378
    My God! What a fight!

    The guy is in a Rampage, calm down, really!

    Let's talk about software development, shall we?

    I'm a developer myself, not a game developer, but let me share some things I learned about ANY software development:
    When you have a software this big to manage, you create a project management and a version control. I bet they are working with GIT or some distributed version management. Alpha means they are developing features, so this is the time you write so much code you get headaches. Then, after this comes the BETA phase, when they will optimize and test the game in full depth... after that comes the Release Candidate phase, few adjustments comes around and finally RELEASE.

    That being said, I agree that the LAG IS A PROBLEM, bot there not much to be done now. The first issue is: They need to decide already where they want the game to go...


    As I said in another thread, my only fear is this game being another in the Alpha plague.
     
  27. Valdemar |FIN| Junior Engineer

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    You know what is funny? Marek Rosa talked in his stream about people making overly big ships and complaining.
     
  28. erdrik Apprentice Engineer

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    Sounds to me like you don't understand.
    Specificly:
    If you continue to scream and rage at people trying to help, and at the devs, then no one will care what you think.

    In fact, Im already there. Next time try not being a jerk.

    And for the record, this game does not have to match the potential of Minecraft.
    It only has to achieve its own potential.
    So all those neato wiz-bang physics and other features that are getting in the way of your massive scale project?
    THEY DO MATTER.
     
  29. Ash87 Senior Engineer

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    1,977
    Okay, the devs Just addressed this in the stream they did earlier today.

    Basically they acknowledged the issues with optimization and said that they were continuing to work on it, and it is an ongoing process. One of the things they are working on now, is that they will be getting a new artist in, who will start to work on reducing the polycount of objects in game. For those who haven't seen this done in a game before, this can have a rather huge effect on your FPS IG. The issues with lag, tied to hosting servers and whatnot, is something that they are focusing on now, and will keep working on to polish MP.

    MP and whatnot are part of the things that KSH wanted to do this year, the first year of development... so this -is- something that is being addressed and actively dealt with.

    There, answers.
     
  30. radam Senior Engineer

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    1,207
    What makes you know what the game "should" be able to handle?
     
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