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Another new guy here

Discussion in 'General' started by Michael Viktor Starberg, Feb 28, 2018.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Michael Viktor Starberg Trainee Engineer


    I am very new here; while I stem from Space Engineers.

    Actually, after only 722 hours, I got so sick and tired of Keen messing up the game; that I decided to boycott the entire thing until they fix it. It's unplayable for me in its current shape and form.

    So I bought this game instead.

    Hmm. Showing anger and dissatisfaction by buying another game from the same company? That's the worst boycott ever! - You just gave them more money! This is the opposite of boycotting‽

    Yeah. Maybe it is. But I want both games to be successful. So here is my money. I can afford it. And I have so much fun in both of them. I really enjoy both games.

    So let's pretend both games makes it into release. The next step is obvious; Medieval Space Engineers v2.0. The best mechanics from both worlds. I wouldn't mind starting with wood sticks and small stones and work my way up to hydrogen thrusters. Skip all the stuff inbetween; I just want to build a villa with a porch and a deer head inside my cool battleship. In my dreams.

    Lastly, I would like to thank the community. People here post more seldom, but with more finesse. Compare latest change log with a SE one (anyone). There is quite a difference in attitude.

    Lets' stay honorable
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  2. Syncaidius Junior Engineer

    I must admit, when I read up to that line of your comment, I thought it was going to be another ragequit "I hate Keen" thread. But then you flipped the entire thing on its head with this:

    Kudos for doing something different. I (and I'm sure many others) know how easy it is to get annoyed at Keen for not fixing or improving many parts of the game but it's worth remembering, unlike many of the game's on Steam right now which use Unity3D and Unreal engine, Keen develop and maintain their own engine. That alone significantly increases their workload.

    VRage is the only engine around that can handle SE and ME simply because it's designed from the core to handle massive amounts of voxelization. Unity3D and Unreal on the other hand are built to be more general-purpose which means they cannot be optimized or focused towards one specific type of game or gameplay mechanic/system.

    No doubt Keen are already aware of this, since they've invested incredible amounts of time and money into VRage and I'd say it was worth every penny, even if it means that they're a little slower than other developers at rolling out fixes and new gameplay features. :)
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Michael Viktor Starberg Trainee Engineer

    @Syncaidius: Hence the 2.0.

    Once NET .Core and C#8 are in place a new VRage on a new Havok will get a huge wroom. As for now, everything is pretty much on lockdown. You can't really move stuff in ME and you can't have composite blocks in SE. Those trains already left the station. So I guess we just have to stay calm and wait. And play the game. And file bug reports.

    Hehe. One up on ME. If angry at Keen you can always craft a stone axe and go chop some trees. See if that helps. I wouldn't use steel for something that futile.
    SE version of this would be arming your base with warheads, detonate; and then rage quit.

    - Okay, now what? =)
    --- Automerge ---
    Adding that as a newbie in SE I always managed to Ion Shower myself. Not to mention frying yourself on welders.
    In this great game I've only died twice. - Timber!

    You don't need to be a medical doctor to realize this is not good for your health. I learned this the hard way. =)
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Ghostickles Senior Engineer

    Ya know, both games have a bug or two but overall the trade off for a completely player created destructible open game world is fair, imo. Welcome to the Omelet, Mr Egg. :)
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. CptTwinkie Master Engineer

    It can be a lot of work to add new functionality. There are many systems in common use by other games that we don't have at all. I think this is not well understood by many players who will ask why we don't add feature X. It's in a lot of other games and it would be a lot of fun. Well, feature X might take months to build the engine support needed before we could even start implementing the feature so it's pretty much a non-starter. On the other hand, I'm pretty comfortable saying that we have better voxels than any other engine. They may not always be perfect and performance can be a little laggy but from what we've seen with other games, they usually abandon voxels after running into engine limitations. The games that use voxels generally find a workaround to keep performance up like making them non-deformable (minecraft style boxes) or restricting their usage in specific ways.

    I'm afraid that Havok has not been our friend since the 2015 acquisition by Microsoft. The licensing is much more restrictive and expensive than in the past and our interactions with Microsoft in regard to Havok have been discouraging. There is almost no chance that we will be relicensing Havok which would be required to update. I'm not certain what this means for VRage in the long term. Either we would have to buy into MIcrosoft's licensing or put in the work to rebuild VRage on a different physics engine. It's a harsh reality. We can only hope that things have gone well for our friends at Havok under their Microsoft overlords.
    • Like Like x 3
  6. Syncaidius Junior Engineer

    As a player of many of those other games, I definitely agree. In my opinion, you guys made the right choice by focusing on voxelization. I'd go as far as to say VRage is cutting edge in the games industry since there is nothing else like it out there yet, so it's understandable that it will take time to perfect and mature.

    That is unfortunate, but hopefully it works out for you guys. I recall Nvidia PhysX being free to license on PC, but changing physics engines is a monumental task, especially when your games are built around physics-based gameplay.
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
  7. sonicthe Trainee Engineer

    However things turn out, y'all are doing some awesome work!! Keep it up, and thanks for the great game.

    I'd say games (plural) but, although I own both of them, I've only played ME. :woot::D:tu:
  8. Michael Viktor Starberg Trainee Engineer

    @CptTwinkie You should get in bed with Frontier. Elite Medieval Space Engineers Dangerous. I'd buy that game anytime!
    From stone axe and berries to a Python. And I want to build that Python. And so would you! Every nerd would.

    async awaiting that, how about the 'thinking hut' that would be a programmable block. And what do you mean that C# didn't exist back in medieval times... :)
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