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Are you kidding me?

Discussion in 'General' started by Sierra, Jan 15, 2015.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Textor Junior Engineer

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    I'm sure they spent it all on hookers and blow, like Wall Street.
     
  2. Thedevistator Senior Engineer

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    Well they won't have 20 mil because it was 15$ for a while, and it was on sale, and some people bought it from G2A, so no it's not 20 mil more like 15 mil
     
  3. Ulfsark Master Engineer

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    oh, WELL, there you have it, 15 million, yep, they're gonna close shop any day now....
     
  4. DocMop Junior Engineer

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    Sometimes, adding more people does not increase productivity.
    Let's just hope this does not go the Miner Wars way.
     
  5. Buzzed Bear Apprentice Engineer

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    I don't know what all the fuss is about. I am having a ball with SE, and I seriously can't wait to get my hands on Medieval Engineers.

    I have previously posted nasty comments in regards to certain updates and what-not, but in the end, I love the game, and every week there has been an update - Even on Christmas! I initially was upset when I saw they were working on another game, but then after huffing an puffing because -I- didn't quite agree with what they were doing (like I have any say right?), I realized that this could be a good thing as they are both based on the same engine, the same laws of physics and so on. So now there are two teams working on issues that will affect both games... TWO TEAMS! YAY!!!!! Better updates to come I bet.

    Here is the final stone on the scale that outweighs all objections or fears: For $20, I have had 1904 hours of fun, frustrations, failures, successes and a lot more fun. When was the last time I could say it cost me A PENNY AN HOUR to have fun? - Its never happened until now. Thank you Keen.

    I for one will be happy to have both titles on my computer - except that I will then have to decide which I want to play.... decisions decisions.
     
  6. Wintersend Senior Engineer

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    I think you may want to look at the "This is an Outrage!" topic, that's basically what your saying lol.
     
  7. K^2 Apprentice Engineer

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    Absolutely. Multiple teams working on their own game centered around a core engine always gives better results than trying to build one huge team around a single game. People just keep stepping on each other's feet, cause feature creep, etc. Anything but make the game better.

    That said, it tends to help a specialist team that works on the core and cross-game feature support. But something tells me that Keen has such a team.
     
  8. WintersWolf Trainee Engineer

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    If OP knew anything about game development he would know that adding more people to a team doesn't always increase the speed of development / bug fixes. It can actually SLOW DOWN development.
     
  9. ZaCormyr Trainee Engineer

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    I think they are taking the right approach.
     
  10. muffins Trainee Engineer

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    You want to think of it from the perspective of a business owner. Your small team has sold 1 million copies in a little over a year and you have mountains of cash sitting in the bank. Enough to meet payroll for perhaps a decade. As a business owner you don't want that cash to sit there and do nothing. Sure, you could increase the head-count that is working on your current product, but this isn't going to significantly increase the success of an already wildly successful alpha.

    Doubling the staff is not going to double the sales in that one game.

    Instead they invest their money in a new product and leverage their already successful engine for that. Now they can double head-count and double sales.

    It's like Apple. They have so much cash that they have their own hedge fund (Braeburn Capital) to invest it for them http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-09-30/presenting-worlds-biggest-hedge-fund-you-have-never-heard

    Plus, if they manage to supplant the ageing Minecraft as THE game with blocks then it'll be gold-plated BMW's all round.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 16, 2015
  11. K^2 Apprentice Engineer

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    That's a bit of a stretch. Good software engineers are 'spensive. You can get a break on good artists and designers, but they still won't be cheap. A good team of 10 people will cost you easily $1.5M/year on salaries and benefits alone. And then you have your business expenses on top of that.

    That's not to say that you can't maintain a team on a lot less, but they won't be the kind of people you grow a high tech game with. This isn't mobile development.
     
  12. trotski94 Trainee Engineer

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    Steam take a huge cut on games sold on their platform... i think its like 30%.

    So that leaves $14million if we say that all their funding came from steam (which it did not, if i am correct..)

    EDIT:
    or is the cost reduced for small devs? i know 30% charge came to light for THQ after sega tried sueing them for the other 70% they got on one of their games...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 16, 2015
  13. erdrik Apprentice Engineer

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    To say nothing of any taxes they would have to pay in their area.
    I typicaly assume another 20% to 40% of the money from sales is never seen by the devs. (so 50% to 70% total)
    I assume that high to be on the safe side, becuase I don't know what taxes are involved in the various places around the world.
    Even at 70% it still 6 million tho.
    Not exactly bankrupt, but still potentialy risky.
    (in this case Im gunna guess closer to 50%, since they were able to hire a new team with which to start a new game)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 16, 2015
  14. Sirius Trainee Engineer

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    Here's how I see it, a 40 person company, (which is an estimate as of last week) assuming everyone makes the high end average for the US (which they aren't in)
    is an annual salary budget of almost $1.7m. Adding 10 new people to make a game already going at a solid pace that has a good fan base (proof by the forums and steam stats)
    really isn't going to help things a long. It's not only practical it's mathematical; the amount of progress & efficiency loses it's narrow margin because there's still only so many things
    that can get done at once. Why spend the extra money to do something that's already working well? (Idc what other people have to say, the amount of content per week that's released and fixed
    for this game is well above many others, especially in the early access department.)

    Starting a new project, which will most likely do just as well since they already have a following, and can give us features we love in an environment that we can't have is going to draw
    even more new players. I think this is not only a good idea from a business point of view (find me any company that has more than 10 people creating games that only ever has 1 project at a time, I'll mail you cookies)
    but from the target demo's point of view we couldn't be happier. Think I'm gonna stop playing (yes, this is rhetorical) SE when this come out, pfft no. Am I going to like building castles and stone & wood buildings
    near a forest rather than just cold steel all the time? Yes, yes I am. There are a LOT of opinions that going into what I'm saying, but personally I appreciate that they're adding to my game library with their disposable income.
     
  15. Otar311 Trainee Engineer

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    I have bought and played dozens of in development/alpha games. If they are any good, I HATE waiting for updates. Drives me crazy, and sometimes they take MONTHS to put out what feels like a small update. Space Engineers has blown me away in that they put out an update almost EVERY week. Keen Software House is top of my list of favorite developers for their consistent updates.
    All that to say, don't start bashing it as long as the updates are still coming!

    Also, they said that the new procedural generation (my two favorite words) that they used in SE recently came out of developing a procedural generation for Medieval Engineers. Looks to me like the two will benefit each other greatly.

    Just my $0.02
     
  16. Ash87 Senior Engineer

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    Well, given the fact that the OP didn't come back because we are all helpless fanboys without any thoughts in our head but marekinis... Guess we'll never know what the OP thinks from here on out. Too bad...
     
  17. Martinineter Senior Engineer

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    Well, great way for a rant thread to die...
     
  18. Ash87 Senior Engineer

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    hey we better be careful though... You remember people saying that the Space Engineers forum was full of meanies way back when?

    If we're not careful people will start getting their feels hurt by the lack of empathy towards random rants about ME.

    We needs the feels
     
  19. DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    Somebody let me know when the internet accountants figure out that Keens profit margin is really $5 after expenses and taxes.
     
  20. Martinineter Senior Engineer

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    *I'm so very sad that this very usefull thread with many unbiased and grounded hostile opinion has to die.... (better?)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 16, 2015
  21. Ash87 Senior Engineer

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    I'm crying right now, given how touching a tribute that was to the OP's obvious state.

    Really, you identify with the horror. The Unimaginable horror.
     
  22. DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    The horror.....































    The horror....
     
  23. Skeloton Master Engineer

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    DDP, needs more Marekini in that post.
     
  24. DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    The horror.....



































    [​IMG]
































    The horror.....
     
  25. Skeloton Master Engineer

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    Better.
     
  26. Gooplux6 Apprentice Engineer

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    let me just point out a few things.
    First: The two games are going to work in conjunction SE has laid some base foundations for ME, and ME will bring new content to SE, so alot of the effort in any game, affects the other.

    Second: Keen isn't sacrificing anything, over the last year they have nearly doubled their Dev crew, so in reality they aren't taking people on the team away from SE and putting into ME.

    Third: the game is an alpha, u should be happy it works at all, needless to say multiplayer is pretty damn good for an alpha.

    Forth: Multiplayer IS NOT the core of the game. if it was the game would have been released with multiplayer, it's core is the creation is about survival and multiplayer. and the fan base is good and all, but until it's possible to get a hold on hackers the player base is not key to the experience.

    Fifth: you want to try doing what they are doing... im open to criticism but clearly you have not done your homework.

    Lastly: you don't have to buy or play their games.
     
  27. Harag Junior Engineer

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    The OP had some valid points. There were some valid counter-points. But you mostly killed this thread with ridicule. Basically you took the "fanboy" bait. Very juvenile.
     
  28. Skeloton Master Engineer

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    Unfortunately that's how it goes....not sure who you were talking to though.

    Ive decided that trying to argue is pointless all I will ever accomplish and I already have. Is to make myself look like a fanboy...I am kind of but Im not beyond critiquing KSH on something. As well as making the person im arguing feel stronger about what they believe. So now I just question things like that last paragraph of the OP.

    Or make light of the bad.
     
  29. DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    If you don't want to be treated like a child, don't act like a child. The term fanboi is a statement made by those who are saying 'anyone who disagrees with me does not hold a valid opinion and are only blindly following a company, therefore I will not listen to anything the other side says'. If the OP wanted to be taken seriously, they must first understand that somebody will always have a different opinion. So if they feel the need to insult right off the bat those who do, then those who do have every right to insult the op.
     
  30. Harag Junior Engineer

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    Just for reference, there is a an official post on the topic.
     
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.