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Armor blocks... the next DLC?

Discussion in 'General' started by Ronin1973, Apr 18, 2019.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    There are arguments for and opposed to DLC. This isn't the thread for that. BTW, I believe Keen changed its policy on DLC interactions for players without the DLC purchased... so that non DLC holders may use the blocks.

    I'm assuming there will be future DLC content released. What will it be?

    For me, there's a massive hole in the inventory of armor block shapes such as 3:1 and 4:1 slopes. There are inverse corner blocks that seem to be missing. These blocks have been available as mods. However, without those mods on the server you're looking to join, tough-luck on using your uber-design modded ship.

    A "completed" armor block set as DLC for $5-$10, what are your thoughts assuming you're okay with DLC content at this point to finance further game development.
     
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  2. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    As I've said numerous times, I'd like to see the 1x1 and 1x2 sets completed. There are a lot missing, especially the 1x1-to-1x2 transition blocks. But, yes, I'd buy that and, if available, a 1x3 and 1x4 set, too!
     
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  3. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

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    More windows/glass...maybe for small grid it will become a thing finally...
     
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  4. Malware Master Engineer

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    Oh wow. Even I will get slightly ticked off if they release armor as DLC...
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  5. Sarekh Senior Engineer

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    I am completely fine with DLC in general - have been buying them since they released an "Elite Force" DLC on CD-ROM ^^
    And so far I liked the idea of decorative options being put into DLC for Space Engineers.
    But armour blocks or weaponry would be a serious problem imho. These are basic functionalities and must-have elements for the game and I cannot see myself supporting that because it would actually be creating the division that some people talked about - it's about making part of the core vision of the game hide behind a paywall.

    And there a plenty of decorative elements to be done as DLC that I would actually happily support. For example: we have the block-variant option available as a function via the MMB (or wheel) - if I can get a set of style variants for the inner wall and the armour blocks (texture-wise) - I would definitely purchase that happily - a non-scratch-version would sell like butter. Or a version with the catwalk-texture. Or a version with the ramp-aesthetics.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Dax23333 Junior Engineer

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    Having DLC for what is quite literally a gaping hole in the game (I can't count how many times i've had a gaping hole... but it was some weird transition peice that diddn't exist) would not be good. It would at least be only aesthetic, which is where more weapons as DLC falls down flat. If they added a DLC for weaponry you'd end up with a gulf between the haves and have nots. You want to do PVP, get the DLC or you won't have the 1.5km range railgun or the short range ship shredding giant shotgun. At least it'd be like that if the DLC weapons were actually any good, and if they were overshadowed entirely by the current weapons then what would be the point?
     
  7. FoolishOwl Junior Engineer

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    The thing about decorative blocks are, they're genuinely optional, and there are a fair number of players who wouldn't much care about them. With the (unfortunate) exception of the industrial cockpit, you can build a ship that includes decorative blocks from the DLC, and then delete those blocks or replace them with vanilla blocks, and the ship would still function just the same. That wouldn't apply to blocks that are functional or play an important structural role, like armor or windows; you'd have ship designs that would literally fall apart without those blocks.

    On top of that, often when it's suggested that armor blocks be added to the game, it's in the context of some of the patterns of blocks being incomplete. It's really going to irritate people if it looks like they're charging extra to fill in gaps. Some people were raising that as an objection to decorative blocks, though I think they really do seem like a distinct category, as I explained above; on top of that, I'd thought Keen had said they didn't see a point to non-functional blocks and so would never add them, so I was pleasantly surprised that they offered them at all. But, the argument that additional armor blocks really should be part of the base game seems considerably stronger to me.
     
  8. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    Thanks to everyone above for replying. I looked at additional armor blocks as future DLC for a few reasons:
    1. Additional shapes in armor are purely cosmetic. You could build out of the current vanilla blocks but the shape of your ship would be a lot uglier but functionally the same (so no pay-to-win).
    2. It's something that's universally wanted across all player-types and requested for years.
    3. It raises revenue for future non-DLC content for everyone.

    I agree that its something that SHOULD have been in the game years ago. Paying for something that you believe should have been in the vanilla game rubs enough people the wrong way. But if it's cheap enough, and adds more development dollars to the coifers then I'm 'okay" with it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    Well, I'm not.

    If there's anything the game needs, it's a complete set of blocks that goes all the way to 1x1x6 with all the corners and inverted corners, light and heavy. They need to be Keen armor blocks because they need to deform and blend in to each other as only keen blocks do. This shouldn't cost any money. I'll gladly pay for other stuff that I either actually want or to support Keen or both. Armor blocks should be part of the standard game, unless they sport some sort of special texture or have some non-standard property.

    Frankly, I am amazed at what some people can do with the vanilla set of blocks. Just imagine what these artists could publish knowing anyone could subscribe to them without worry?
     
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  10. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    Noted, respected, and I even agree with you in spirit. But there are a few realities that that have to be addressed. If we would like development of additional features to the game, then it's going to cost. So DLC is going to creep into the game. i want more development, especially new features. We can pick apart how Keen has managed the project in hindsight and I'm pretty sure it was a learning experience for almost everyone involved on the development side. The car is running low on gas and it doesn't matter how lost we got getting here.

    The big caveat is that the DLC cannot be pay-to-win. They want to keep the DLC blocks as being as purely decorative as possible. We've already proven that some wonderful looking ships have been designed on the existing vanilla block set of armor. By creating more shapes of armor in DLC, I can't build BETTER ships.

    I can build PRETTIER ships.

    That sounds pretty decorative to me. Additional armor blocks and additional window block patterns or even styles like different textures for armor blocks or windows is a purely decorative move. I'm not asking you to like the idea. I'm offering it up as the least invasive DLC scheme available to the game and the workshop. If they don't add more armor block shapes (or windows) at all, I'd be perfectly okay with it. But here's a chance to put the thumb on the scale and ensure we get them. $4 to make that happen. I'm fine with that.

    But it's just a matter of my opinion. I can rationalize spending an additional small some of money to be certain I enjoy the game more rather than hoping they decide to budget some developer time to do the thing that I'd be really excited to find an official part of the game. You still have a valid point. But where's the budget to do it?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,507
    @Ronin1973 Heh. I think you missed the point. There's nothing you've said here that's new to me... Trying to defend this to me is an utter waste of time. I have generally not minded the DLC much. At worst I found it a bit silly to release blocks as DLC. So... given the fire and brimstone for these blocks... imagine what the general opinion would be when even I get slightly annoyed about it. And if you think logic and reason is gonna get anywhere... well... :D
     
  12. May Rears Apprentice Engineer

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  13. Malware Master Engineer

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    Doesn't apply, since as mods everyone on a server gets to use them. Not so with the DLCs.
     
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  14. Scya Apprentice Engineer

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    I quess new armour shapes are actually confirmed. Or do you think Keen will use moded armour blocks in their official logo-intro? :p

    Now seriously, Armour DLC would ve a bad idea.
     
  15. Malware Master Engineer

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    They've already used modded armor blocks in their official logo-intro, Scya. So - nope. I don't think they will. I know they will (and does).

    I mean, it's not even really armor. Just - like 90% of "armor" mods - entity blocks shaped like armor. Doesn't have deformation or the polygon optimization
     
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  16. SirConnery Apprentice Engineer

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    I would happily pay for a complete up to 1x10 set for all of the current armor blocks. I'd also happily pay for some custom texture option for armors that would be integrated with workshop.

    I don't think I would happily pay for missing 1x3 pieces or such though.
     
  17. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    I, too, would like to see small-grid windows. But I'd also like to see more window variants such as 2x2 and, if we get x3 and x4 armor block sets, compatible windows for those aspect ratios.
     
  18. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    Yeah, they did. if you look closely you can see that the modded 1x1x6 blocks do not blend with the other blocks and they do not share the vanilla texture. If anything the video supports the notion that the vanilla armor set is incomplete.

    Know what though? I miss the "rounded" armor blocks. They were blocks that Keen put out that were supposed to conform to the edges of surrounding blocks that otherwise did not match. They had two problems. The first one was they called them "rounded" blocks and everyone thought that meant they were supposed to be round. Second, they tended to match some edges and not others, and the result looked like a dent.

    I wonder if they could fix that?

    The thing about armor blocks is that everyone will use them, whatever shape they take. The armor block is the fundamental Space Engineers block. That's something Keen should never make you pay for. The toilet block, for example, is a block that some people can ignore and others can't build without. Those types of blocks might be worth a couple bucks for some people. The industrial cockpit does not fit a lot of people's build style and many may not find it visually appealing. Those people can live without it and they will keep their money in their pockets, or go ahead and buy that latte instead.

    On the other hand, if Keen had made that "hydrogen engine" DLC they would have made enough money to buy Microsoft.


    From everyone else.









    Not me, though.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    Yet people still stick it on a lot of their builds simply because it's new. I've only used it once.
     
  20. Thrak Junior Engineer

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    I presume a future DLC... if not a the "next" is some sort of "Small-Grid Block Set." They've already showed off a small grid cryo pod and have hinted at small grid windows. Cha-ching!
     
  21. WhiteWeasel Senior Engineer

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    I sincerely hope any further DLC for the game doesn't involve blocks. This is supposed to be a building game, everyone should be able to use the same palette for their creations. And doubly so for a block type everyone is going to want to use.
    ^^^

    My biggest complaint about the game is there isn't a ton content that isn't user generated. You have your fancy toys, but not much context for them, especially if you are a solo player. I'd rather not want anything to have to be DLC, but if I must pick, I'd love for a DLC that added for proper AI factions and NPC's for you to fight/fight alongside with. Content that's like mission running or exploration in EVE, or a highly polished version of that popular exploration mod. Beat the mission and you get a skin drop, tokens, or a ship spawned in in your ownership. We have the framework for all that kind of stuff right now with the new tutorial (even with the skin reward!). Right now, you don't really have much incentive to go out and explore. I just want stuff to do. Also, for a DLC perspective, story content/stuff to do content is a lot easier to justify than blocks - since that is what most old school DLC was anyway. If I can buy Dead Money or Far Harbor, I can buy a mission mode DLC.
     
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  22. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    Well, aside from the cockpit and the armory, all the blocks in the DLC were suggested by a minority and fiercely opposed by a vast and vocal majority. Blocks like the stove, toilet and planter suggested a hunger mechanic that many players said would ruin SE forever. There were apparently enough of us that seemed sincere in our desire that Keen split the difference and put them out as paid DLC. I agree that the game should have a basic palette with enough parts to create more complex shapes and show some individuality. The DLC blocks are a bit beyond basic and are not everyone's taste. New players should perhaps not buy a game loaded with blocks they may never use. I mean, how many different ways could keen make an antenna block? Should they all be in the game? An antenna like Darth Biomech's Deep Space Transceiver that can tilt a full 90 degrees would be DLC I would pay for if it also contained other communications-related blocks. Cool? Maybe. Essential? No.

    The same could be said about any sandbox ;)
     
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  23. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    4,695

    A second variant with the conveyor connect on the back would go a long way. Plumbing up a cockpit requires having conveyors above or below current large grid cockpit designs. No bueno.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  24. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    I'd like the standard cockpit to have variant with a rear conveyor port, too!
     
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