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Barbarians!

Discussion in 'General' started by devoderek, Feb 19, 2015.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. devoderek Trainee Engineer

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    Barbarians Are going to be a great addition to the game! But i strongly think they need to add swords and bows among other weapons to the game!

    Lets say the barbarians lay waist to one of my castle walls. Whats next? Do they rush in and pillage? If so than i need to be able to get up close and personal with them! Or they just break walls and run away... That would suck.


    I know they want to push the whole siege weapons combat and im all for that. But i think for the game to be complete they need to add both combat systems!

    I hope that they add all forms of combat to the game!
     
  2. Connor Trainee Engineer

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    Agreed
     
  3. Tajin Apprentice Engineer

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    Beware, for they will sit around everywhere in your castle, eat your food and drink all your beer.

    You will have to use some kind of rope/pulley/catapult system to get rid of them again. :D



    ... yeah I guess weapons would be nice
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 19, 2015
  4. Valkysas Trainee Engineer

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    First thing i thought when i seen that text in a youtube video




    It's so gonna happen allot might buy this game when there is AI
     
  5. Ninjaturkey Apprentice Engineer

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    In addition with barbarians, it should have knights and militiamen, no more than 30, just to protect you when you operate your trebuchet and siege a castle.
    (both for solo and multiplayer)

    It shouldn't be easier to just kill with swords than with over complex operated spinning contraption of death, this is engineering war for something right.

    Someone even mentioned peasants, i like the idea to see them build planks out of the woods you brought into your castle and help you haul everything around.
    I would love to see a "plant the flag" mechanic more than an orders like in Mount and blade, you put a flag somewhere(multiple variations) and it says: "npc's comme here and defend" etc...
     
  6. devoderek Trainee Engineer

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    Ya i like the idea of also having npc control'd units in my castles and forts!
     
  7. Me 10 Jin Apprentice Engineer

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    NPCs will be a HUGE addition to ME. Stupid barbarians might plunder your treasury, slay your peons, and quaff your malt beverages. In survival mode, a fully fledged castle will be an immense undertaking, so it should be nigh impregnable to the barbarians.

    Peons should be able to handle all the mundane drudgery needed to keep a medieval town alive and well. Players should be primarily concerned with engineering the township to facilitate that. No peon micro-management please.
     
  8. devoderek Trainee Engineer

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    Survival mode is the place where i want barbarians! they just need to scale how they attack you to your wealth or something!

    Ex: When you start out you might find a few wondering around, but as you get bigger the threat should scale as well!

    (For people who dont want the combat maybe they should add a non combat mode. But Survival is all about surviving in the harsh time period!)

    I for one dont want NPC's to be able to solely defend my towns and castles! Wouldnt mind the help though :D
     
  9. lerxst Trainee Engineer

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    8
    So Mount & Blade Engineers, eh? I'm in favor of that, especially since the one drawback M&B had for me was the lack of any real type of siege-feel to it - castles were impervious and your equipment would just magically spawn with the map.
     
  10. Ninjaturkey Apprentice Engineer

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    Yes no micro-management, Barbarians should be very hard to kill with melee or with military, engineering has to triumph over swords.

    Peasants could be a kind of resources, buyable and affect something, like smelting/crafting time so you need to keep them alive.
     
  11. Lord Vulpes Trainee Engineer

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    I really like your idea! It would be very easy to implement this, without all the animations, extra pathfinding and logic to program.

    X amount of Villagers add X % to building speed

    Only thing left would be villagers who operate contraptions .... this would be fabulous as defence options against barbarians.
    For instance: press shift 1 and peasant 1 cuts the rope of trap x. I wouldn't mind if he or she wouldn't be locally present and just alive somewhere inside the castle.
     
  12. nekit20874 Trainee Engineer

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    Yes! Game is need to add NPS. And primery weapon, like sword and crossbows!
     
  13. Ninjaturkey Apprentice Engineer

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    I don't think assigning buttons, it would require a configuration panel etc...
    what about you press T to make one follow you, then T on a cross wheel so he stand up next to it.
    Then whenever you want him to operate the thing you stand awy from him and shout with a key "GO", "STOP", "Reverse"
    You could so ahve a huge trebuchet with 6 operators and you would be like a king on the commander tower shoutign orders to your minions
     
  14. Lord Vulpes Trainee Engineer

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    I totally agree with you, the "T"-solution would be good.

    For this to happen it may need a lot of time, that's why i suggested a simplified version. You can always improve things ;)

    Better having some Npc-Dummies in my Tavern, than having nothing to protect from the nonexistent Barbarians - the sooner npcs the better :D
     
  15. Ninjaturkey Apprentice Engineer

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    You're right there's always space for improvements.

    I wonder of fun it would be to build a tank with a crew of slaves turning wheels like on a galley to make it move.

    -"Sir we are under arrow fire, the peasants die"
    -"Forward, god's with us!"
     
  16. Lord Vulpes Trainee Engineer

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    Well voice acting would be extraordinary cool :D

    First let the barbarians come (HP says: "...coming soon!"), than give me my great forging hammer and let the smashing party begin :D

    A great Axe and Hammer is sufficient for mayhem - as a start ;)
     
  17. Junger_Werwolf Apprentice Engineer

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    My idea for scaling the barbarians is to do it by time. Let's say there'll be a time/night change so we can count ingame time. On day one no barbarians, day two: one barbarian, day three: two of them and so on. And to keep it interesting every 10th could be a better equipped one.
    So after 100 day you got a lot time to build an impressive castle but also got a little army attacking you
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 21, 2015
  18. youbenhad2 Trainee Engineer

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    Woah! What about villagers working like timing blocks in space engineers? You build a contraption and you set up what to do in order/ attach rope, crank for 10s, add rock, cut rope/ and these could be saved for that contraption so when you tell a villager to man it they know what to do. The model could be a note or something, but it just needs to work like a timing block. Except to "start timer" you just assign villager.
     
  19. devoderek Trainee Engineer

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    I would rather something a little more random! some days they attack and some days they dont! I would also like to see them having camps that i have to siege as well!
     
  20. Caesar15 Apprentice Engineer

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    Ramming speed!
     
  21. Thedevistator Senior Engineer

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    those are the only kinds of NPCs I'd like. I don't want them to ruin the gameplay with them gathering resources for you and fighting for you. I say just play creative mode if you're that lazy.
     
  22. waterlimon Senior Engineer

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    1,499
    My barbarian thoughts:
    • Barbarians should go after wealth (more shiny things, more barbarians, more defences needed)
    • Barbarians should mostly come at known times (eg summer if we get seasons or such), but any time should be possible
    • Barbarians should attack slowly (retreating, taking injured back, being careful) instead of rushing straight into your traps
     
  23. Black spiky thing Apprentice Engineer

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    I can already think of several different kinds.

    Scouts, archers, warriors, heavies, and chieftains. Maybe some archers on horseback as well, and NPC engineers that have their own catapults and what not.
    And possibly some expendable auxiliary troops that are little more than peasants with makeshift weapons and armor.

    Oh, and maybe some thieves or assassins. These would be rare, the thieves would just steal things and get out, while the assassins could kill nobles, and possibly you, if you are one, or get in the way.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 22, 2015
  24. Baleur Trainee Engineer

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    They better add AI to Space Engineers too, no AI ships in that game and they are already talking about AI in Medieval Engineers.. I mean, perhaps do it in SE first.
     
  25. devoderek Trainee Engineer

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    I think both games need the AI but i think ME would benefit more and should get it first!

    But that is just my opinion and you may think differently than me
     
  26. Ninjaturkey Apprentice Engineer

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    That is right, unfortunately full automation is better for SE, ME has to be clunky and slow at operating to be the most realistic.
    I prefer having one good machine than 8 standards ones operated by NPC's, I liek the idea to be compelled to cock the ballista, place an arrow, correct the angles and then fire and enjoy the damages.

    Wealth and seasons is good, improved AI is essential, that' is a good idea to have them wander around and inspect your castle some time before going straight for the entry gate and get rekt.
    They should also be able to climb a certain amount of wall and/or carry small ladders on the battle field

    But being siege by siege engines will only be a multi-player thing
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 22, 2015
  27. Me 10 Jin Apprentice Engineer

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    463
    Barbarians should come with a timely warning (not "Barbarian Storm Incoming!") like a peon scout/hunter reports seeing barbarians heading towards the town. Barbarian raiding parties could scale to the player's progress not only by their numbers, but also by the equipment they bring (ladders, battering ram, burning oil, etc...) to encourage players to diversify their defenses (and to smoke out the dwarfs).

    +1 to the idea of using wealth as the scaling factor for outside threats. The other side of the coin (pun intended) should be that wealth is needed to attract and retain peons. This would make the danger scale directly with the size of your enterprise.

    Peons as a resource is a good idea too. All peons should be able to defend themselves, but training them with axes and bows would make them batter at it (because you sacrificed the work they could have been doing instead of training).
     
  28. kipper Trainee Engineer

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    5
    AI is indeed going to be important here. In space engineers, it's somewhat believable that I can be a lone engineer and using all of the automation tools available make great big machines to take care of my mining, defences etc.

    Last time I played it (forgive me if its changed) there were only meteor strikes, and I found a single gun was sufficient to keep them permanently away from my platform.

    With ME, I won't find it believable at all that a single engineer can build, maintain and operate an entire castle single-handedly. I mean, does this mean that if I'm in a two player PvP mode, that when I'm attacking I can't defend and vice versa? It seems as though it will be much easier to attack than defend (a castle is a huge target for a catapult which can do lots of damage, but a catapult is harder to hit from the castle).

    Not only that, but I can't see my little guy being able to lug massive stone blocks around and build high walls as simply as he presently can in creative mode.

    I think you need to take the role of the engineer who determines where things should be built, and then hire builders who will come and find any 'unbuilt' blocks that they can reach / have support, and start working on them. More builders cost more gold/food/whatever and so will build more quickly.

    Your job will be to ensure that they have ways to reach everything they need to get to, and to engineer solutions for them to get the materials they need.

    For example; I may plan a stone wall - my builders will go to the nearest 'quarry' block placed at a stone source and carve out bricks to place there. My builders will go there and collect bricks to go and build with. I should be able to place a 'brick store' near the wall I want to build, and people should carry the materials from the quarry to the brick store, giving the builders less of a journey. I should potentially be able to mount a 'brick store' inside of a moveable cart, so peasants will fill it up, I can then use my engineering solution to pull an entire cart back to the building, and people will empty the cart back into the nearest store.

    Good luck with building this system though, it seems realistic to me but incredibly complex to implement!
     
  29. Ninjaturkey Apprentice Engineer

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    This mechanic is the one we need: better castle = More risk
    I don't know how barbarians are going to handle battering rams though...

    I like how you defined the role of the player, he design things, operate complex machinery, he is the engineer;
    whereas the peasants take care of the "time depending tasks" such as crafting, building blocks you placed:
    They could be at the same time the refinery, assembler and welding tool of SE

    These tasks can be done by the player himself, but it is faster to ask peasants to them and thus achieve greater projects.

    There will obviously be ores to refined with a smelter, it would be fun to have to continuously be in front of it to have the ores smelted, or get a peasants to do it for you.

    An Early game would features only a single or 2 overwhelmed peasants:
    -"smelt" -"yes, sir", -"no in fact, build", -"yes, my lord",-"damn,isn't that gate yet open", -"i'm on it..."

    Maybe a "fatigue" system too, once a worker has done a lot, the lazy guy stops his actions and just relax on the floor or go to the tavern to get their fatigue back...
     
  30. waterlimon Senior Engineer

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    1,499
    To get variety/choices (which any good game should have):
    • It should be possible to donate food and resources to barbarians to prevent conflicts (lets assume barbarians attack because theyre struggling to get by and notice you have everything and maybe even make their conditions worse by killing animals and collecting resources in the region). So you can choose to either: (Spend resources on defence and risk barbarian attack) OR (Spend resources on keeping barbarians friendly to greatly lower risk)
    • Barbarians should learn from previous mistakes. If they lost attacking from one direction, they might try another direction, or attack from multiple directions. If they could not advance and had to retreat, they could bring more battering rams/ladders/bridges/more agile barbarians. If they did get easily through but did not have enough people to carry all the shiny things back home, they should bring more people/animals next time, just to carry things. If they always succeed for the first 2 minutes and then get rekt, they should make many smaller short attacks and quickly retreat instead of big lengthy attacks where you have time to react.
    • Barbarians should use the items they stole from you in their future attacks. If they steal swords, theyll have more swords in the next attacks, if they steal food, they can camp outside the walls longer or be stronger overall. If they steal animals, they can use them to bring more heavy siege machinery. If they steal gold or other shiny things, they can perhaps hire mercenaries or buy anything they think they need.
    (Im assuming barbarians will actually steal stuff, not just wreck your castle for no reason at all)

    Also, would it not be cool if barbarians could take you as prisoner (eg barbarians tie your hands and drag you to their place (you can move in a small radius around the barbarian dragging you), then they put you in a 'jail cell', where you are free to move again. In multiplayer, a friend could save you. If nobody saves you, they eat you.). Or if barbarians 'beat you up', maybe youll just spawn in their jail cell in their village, that would be simpler to implement. The point is, you can be saved in multiplayer, but usually, this would be a failing condition (you lose your character). Of course you might spawn as a new character and continue running the castle if the game permits that.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 22, 2015
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