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blueprints for ships

Discussion in 'Survival' started by Luzian, Jul 23, 2014.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Luzian Trainee Engineer

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    <div>Hey

    I think a cool funktion for space engineers would be if you can make blueprints for your ships.
    It would make easier to build Ships in survival mode if you build them first in Creativ. With a shipyard
    block and enough resources you can build the ship from the blueprint. Maybe it would build the ship by itself or it just set the resources and the blocks and you have to build them finish.

    This is just a good idea, isnt it?
    </div>
     
  2. g4borg Apprentice Engineer

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    I think it was mentioned as a goal along the line. But indeed, that would be wonderful.
     
  3. Polenicus Apprentice Engineer

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    I would love the ability to do this, but I can see some hurdles.

    The obvious method is to use copy/paste functionality. Instead of copying the ship or station completely, it copies it as unfinished blocks. You have to pay the base cost of all those framework blocks before you can paste it, and then have to weld it up into functionality. However, several problems:

    1. Blocks in the center of the ship may not be accessible for welding.

    2. Potential for griefing, and multiplayer imbalance. Simply 'copy' someone's design, place the framework, then examine it for strengths and weaknesses, or weld it up and use it yourself, without using any of your own ingenuity. This can be addressed both by making it a game setting for the server, and by basing permissions for it with factions. This would require anything being copied have at least one block with ownership permissions.

    3. On large builds especially, the parts requirement to place the 'blueprint' might exceed a player's storage capacity, especially in 1x1x1 games.
     
  4. Raisu Trainee Engineer

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    Polenicus, one solution to the "Inaccessible blocks that need to be welded" part could be worked around by devs implementing a "Precision Welding Arm" of sorts.

    When selected on the toolbar your viewpoint switches to that welding arm and you can move it extend, retract, move vertically and horizontally, without it colliding into blocks that are below their "Functional Line" (the red line).

    When deselected it automatically retracts completely.

    -------------------------------------------------------------

    With the blueprint itself, you said it. A player by themselves with no machinery would not be able to do anything regarding blueprints.

    A separate machine would be needed that can lay out the blueprint of the ship, using cargo holds that are attached through Conveyors as the source of the material needed.

    -------------------------------------------------------------

    Finally, either the machine mentioned before or a third new machine would be needed to scan and create blueprints of ships.

    -------------------------------------------------------------
    Each of these could be restricted as Station-only blocks as well. Preventing a player from flying to someone's ship with a scanner, copying a blueprint and then recreating it at home for whatever reason.
     
  5. SeeJayEmm Apprentice Engineer

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    120
    What about, rather than dropping the framework in front of you we get a blueprint in the UI. Sorta like a minimap/full map overlay except the map is the blueprint. You can make blueprints of existing ships but you still need to do the work to build it.
     
  6. RockSlice Trainee Engineer

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    39
    Here's my suggestion for implementation:

    A Blueprint block with empty memory attaches to ship to be copied, similarly to landing gear.
    Scanning takes a set amount of time per block (long enough to dissuade people from copying hostile ships).
    When scanning is complete, Blueprint block dis-engages, and displays a small picture of scanned ship until memory is cleared.

    When activated, creates a hologram of the ship. You can then fly around and place and weld any connected blocks. UI would automatically select proper type and orientation of blocks.
     
  7. Chris Keena Apprentice Engineer

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    209
    A Blueprint might be thought of as a 3d printer file for use in-game.
    Buy a Blueprint from another player in exchange for a few kilos of Uranium, load the file into a controller for a gantry mounted welder and feed it resources. Stand back and watch as it welds up the ship layer by layer.

    Impossible I know but I can dream.
     
  8. kristakis Junior Engineer

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    607
    Rather than have it paste a full skeleton, I'd rather it created a phantom outline, like a holographic projection. You could toggle it on and off and because it's not solid you can fly into the middle and place blocks and build them from the inside out.

    It could look a bit like the CTRL+V outline in creative mode and have a green box outline when there's enough space to build the ship in question.

    Once you place a block that matches the outline, it would lock itself to that block and update the box colour appropriately. You would need to ensure you have used the relevant ship start option.

    You would have the option to show/hide the outline based on faction so that you could keep your design a secret or share it with faction so others could help you build.

    If you go to place a block that doesn't match the outline it would show an orange box around it to indicate that you can still place the block but it will be a deviation from the blueprint to do so. The box around the entire outline would also turn orange if there was a deviation and you should be able to see the orange colour in the outline or via some other visual indicator (similar to the CTRL+SHIFT+F11 view perhaps)

    That's how I'd do it anyway :D
     
  9. GalaxyMeridian Apprentice Engineer

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    111
    I like this idea!

    It is highly realistic considering that in real life, all construction would first be designed as a 3d-blueprint, before any building-process started.
    If you wore a 3d helmet, let's say an advanced version of today's Oculus Rift, applying a 3d-blueprint to your visor, this whole idea would not be far-fetched at all.

    My only addition to your suggestion would be that after the holographic projection is in place, you should be able to automatically build the block you have selected, without having to match the block and rotate it to the right rotational degree. Of course, one should be free to paste different blocks over the projection, but it should be a default setting to add the block which is selected from the holo-blueprint. Otherwise, certain designs, such as complex angled windows, would take a long time to replicate, since you would have to repeat potentially challenging rotations, over and over again.

    Of course, I am assuming that one would need to have the materials for each block, just as you would in normal building.
    The 3d-blueprint would just be a help-grid to speed up the building process, to make sure you replicate the design properly.
     
  10. Mansen Apprentice Engineer

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    481
    Yeah I hope we'll get a 3D printer of some kind that produces blueprints eventually. Copy/Paste seems a bit cheap.
     
  11. Rosenkranz Apprentice Engineer

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    http://forums.keenswh.com/post/blueprints-what-are-your-thoughts-6739433?pid=1283476182#post1283476182

    Here's a similar idea (ooooh, the link wasn't deleted this time:) )

    But the idea of adding a pre-placement, colliderless block models would be great. It would allow for copy/paste and symetry modes to be used in survival mode as you wouldn't be spending any components on placement.
     
  12. TehRoach Apprentice Engineer

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    +1 Automatic blue print system that doesn't feel like cheating
    -1 Paint by numbers blue print system
     
  13. TwoHedWlf Trainee Engineer

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    Yeah, i don't really like the requirement to fill in an outline, it doesn't really make it much better than the current setup. The "3d printer" idea though I do like. Maybe it requires you to build a big shipyard framework with the relevant amount of time and resources. Then once that's complete you just need to feed in the blueprint and components. Then a bunch of arms whip around placing and welding the components.
     
  14. JayCo2013 Apprentice Engineer

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    356
    I love the idea of Blueprints and thought about it for a while after reading about it a while back.
    My idea is this.....

    First we need a new block Small and large ship variant and only one block in size, it wil be called the Blueprint block.

    Go into creative and select your starter from the G menu, Be it Large ship, small ship or station, and place it down as normal. Now add a few block to form the start of your base or ship, Now select the Blueprint block from the G menu and place it somewhere on your initial grid where it can be easily removed later (Probably underside of whatever your building is easiest) Now once you place the BP block you can select it like before and it will bring up the list of available blueprints, select one and it will be displayed, Orientated around the starter block from when it was built in Creative, Obviously the ghost grid will be linked to the starter block which is already placed and so anything in the way will need to be removed to place the ajoining blocks just as if you were building a normal ship or station blocks need to connect to other blocks to progress through the build, this just gives you the outline to follow, once its made to your satisfaction grind out the blueprint block and the ghost image will disappear. Station blueprints would be allowed to be moved around the base block at 90deg flips, for each face of the block, but the baseblock you place in survival will be in the same place on the blueprint as the baseblock you placed in the creative build and will orientate the rest of the blueprint around that point when flipped from one face to another around the starter block. This means you could create a cool base in Creative out in the middle of space and then use blueprint to build the identical base inside an asteroid, Would be interesting.

    Well thats basically the idea, It would also mean that you could use this blueprint method on the 3d ship printer (Basically a giant welder system) because you could lay down the frames for the base level of blocks and the head could then weld them, then you lay down the next layer and so on. You could even build the station that way, then add engines and convert it to a ship fly it to the area of space and convert it back to a station by merging it with a station block.
     
  15. TehRoach Apprentice Engineer

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    258
    @JayCo2013 I had almost the exact same idea, just different name :)
    Although I would not care what it was called, just hope the idea gets implemented :p

    http://forums.keenswh.com/post/being-able-to-repair-crashed-ships-without-having-to-personally-remember-the-design-6980388?&amp;trail=15
     
  16. merak Apprentice Engineer

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    149
    why not make something that make the ships from the bottom up in "layers" (like a real 3d printer) ? is that a possibility to go around the problems?
     
  17. TehRoach Apprentice Engineer

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    258
    I would speculate that the biggest "Game" problem with a layered approach is the "Gaps".
    Besides the only reason that a 3D printer prints in layers, is because of the Earths Gravity, something that is not a problem in the Game.
    The idea of the blueprint growing from a single block, is basically a 3D layers idea any way without the "gap" problem of a 2D layers approach.
    Just more like the layers of an onion as opposed to the layers of paper pages in a book :)
     
  18. spacedMatt Apprentice Engineer

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    421
    I think this would be great.
    You could have a hologram projected from a block on your ship, the same block could also scan in new ships/station.

    If you have the parts you can start welding the hologram.

    Then when we get a timing block or programming we could make a 3d printer out of pistons, welders, time/programming and this block.
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Ghostickles Senior Engineer

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    2,077
    THEY TOOK AR JOBS!
     
  20. Ender Trainee Engineer

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    25
    I thought of something simpler than all that fancy machinery to make up a ships blueprints. Using good ol fashioned brain power and reading a simple blue print with technical layouts.

    Any ship you complete (at any stage as long as its powered and has a control panel) or any ship you have access to and any components you have access to (ones you don't may be blacked out on the blue print), can be 'hacked' or scanned. This produces an actual blue print that is stored in your Space Station/Ships system and can be accessed.

    When you view it, its literally like a full screen layout. You then have to produce the blocks and build as you go. Nothing fancy laid out for you. Like looking at a wiring schematic for a car and replicating it based on the blue print itself.

    Any death would require a new blue print scan/hack unless you can gain it back from a faction or something you have once again shared knowledge/access with.
     
  21. Troa Barton Apprentice Engineer

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    119
    i would like it to be the same as when you program a macro.
    first you could in this example start a new small ship.
    -you make the landing gear and a spire to build off of.
    -place the blueprint macro maker block on the spire near the top. press the record function.
    -begin building the ship as normal in survival adding the blocks piece by piece and welding them as you go along be it in an "onion" or "2d layer" format however you build the ship it will automate later minus the delay in command.
    -as you are building said ship it records all of the "commands" you give it it will not record the time in between commands.
    (place blocks at these positions, weld blocks at these locations delete blocks in these locations ect)
    -once complete go back to the blueprint block and stop recording.
    -then press the download blueprint command which would assign it to either your player, profile, and or faction.

    -after this is done you can go to the "printing block" on your station and go into your G menu like you would to create new small ship but instead press load blueprint.
    this would create a semi-transparent outline like in creative that you could only place down on the "printing block" and could only place it down if the printing block was as large as said blueprint. otherwise you could not place it.
    -once placed activate the printer and it will replicate the actions you took drawing from your connected cargo containers as fast as possible.

    -i would also like to see mechanized welder and grinder arms that you could add around the printing block to make the process faster but not mandatory which would also look awesome.

    another thing i would like would be a "reverse commands selection"
    -in this case you would bring an already completed ship near your station.
    -place the blueprint macro block on the ship and start recording.
    -select reverse commands.
    -disassemble your ship entirely in the opposite way you would like it to be built if there is a preference.
    -download the blueprint

    this would allow ships built in creative to be programmed in survival also already existing survival ships to be digitized
    also in true survival fasion this would require effort to make and use blueprints.
     
  22. garason Trainee Engineer

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    4
    I think this is a good idea but what i think would be a good way for it to work is you have to build the first version of the ship then take it to a scanner of sorts and only once you have the scan of the prototype could you use a automated constuctor to build the ship layer by layer
     
  23. AtlantisThief Apprentice Engineer

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    300
    What i currently see as an issue (or i simply missed it), how do you want to weld all the inside of a bigger ship? You can run the welder on the outside, and even on an "fabrication path" like in the image from spacedMatt, but on some cases, you probably won't reach the inside of the ships.
     
  24. Knsgf Junior Engineer

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    Build and weld the ship layer by layer. This, of course, requires careful planning.
     
  25. JD.Horx Senior Engineer

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    To the guy with the gap problem if a ship would be built layer by layer.
    What about large ships getting pasted as a station. You have to convert them back later.
    And for small ships? Well, they are small enough, big welders actually "weld through" multiple layers of small blocks. So I'd say, small ships get placed as one piece.
     
  26. TehRoach Apprentice Engineer

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    258
    LOL

    Have you ever accidentally/deliberately cut that one piece that was actual holding something else on?
     
  27. piddlefoot Senior Engineer

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    Bring on 3d printers in the game, great idea.
     
  28. MegaMiner Junior Engineer

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    I'd prefer a nanite repair/construction block, that basically will only construct a block that wold be stable and connected, i.e. it only builds a new block if that new block is connected to an existing block. Mostly this would make the armor/framework get done first. This coupled with merge blocks wold let us build shipyards that automatically built new ships as we used them. Jst hop in the console and disconnect the merge block of the ship yo want and fly off. When you need a new ship of that type, just turn the merge block back on and the station will start building it again.
     
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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.