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Build Design Help

Discussion in 'General' started by Sergeant Snuggles, Dec 10, 2015.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Sergeant Snuggles Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    998
    Howdy All!

    I am looking for a bit of help and advice if possible please? I am terrible when it comes to using projector blocks and getting it all lined up properly etc. Now I have a brief outline of what I want to achieve so if anyone can give me any tips on how best to achieve it I would be hugely appreciative.....you wont receive any sexual favors but you will receive praise and if you are lucky....a video submission to youtube showing the resulting work with thanks given and maybe a kiss blown....we shall see on that one :p

    So! I am looking to create a tunnel miner using this Drill Mod - http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=475375953&searchtext=mexpex

    The current idea being that I want to create a tube like drill machine with a single drill on the end and a shed load of thrusters to keep it stable when moving etc. The tricky part I am trying to sort out is to have it using a rail system to rest the miner on when it is boring through a wall. I have no images to give so try to imagine it like this:

    Drill - left and right side projector - welder on each side - body with thrusters for stability and 1 block sized wheels on suspension + all the rest etc.

    I want it so the projectors put out a railing of blocks so that it is 1 block a gap and then another block above to give the wheels a passage to run down but no space to leave the confines of the "railing" (I should'nt need side guards in the sense of the drill will only go in one direction and the thrusters should stop horizontal drift.)

    The problem I have here is auto projector welding is a mystery to me...I fail at making a suitable blueprint to work with, I fail at getting the projectors to project it in a manner that it can join to pre exisiting blocks and when I do get it to work I can never get it full automated. A different scenario where i was simply mass producing warheads and then cutting them to drop into a hole left me manually cutting the connecting block each time because I couldnt get a grinder to auto do it (that could have been my own fault being in creative though so dont worry about that.)

    Anyway if anyone can give any tips or indeed screenshots of the basic principle I would be very grateful, I dont need it built for me I just need help with the projection system and usage.

    Oh and Thanks in advance! :)
     
  2. Khalad Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    40
    So, if I understand correctly, you want your miner to weld the rails as it drill through the asteroid/planet right ?

    If this is what you want, you cannot do it with the projectors on the ship. You will need to build a few station blocks first with projectors. As a blueprint, you need to project a line of light armor block.

    Welders will be on your ship, in the front part to weld the blocks before the wheels reach them.

    Not easy to explain only with words, and I don't have any way to make pictures at the moment. I'll try to provide pictures tonight to explain better.

    Hope this helped.

    Khalad
     
  3. Sergeant Snuggles Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    998
    Thanks for the reply, I will see if I can get something put together tonight before/after the patch to get some screenshots on here of what I am trying to do.....maybe it will work maybe it will fail miserably!

    Oh and yes you understood fine :)
     
  4. Tony Hughes Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    715
    I don't have any useful screen-shots at hand, but I've made a few self building tools, so can give you some basic tips.

    The best general advice I can give is to experiment with the design in creative and learn the welding and cutting ranges of the tools. Surround a welder entirely with a large cube of scaffolding blocks, turn it on and then try to grind them away by hand (you might want to use one of the less efficient hand tools there). For grinders, just surround half of one with armour blocks, turn on the grinder and see which ones are affected. I was surprised by the results when I tried it and it's worth noting it down somewhere; you can do some quite delicate work with the front corner welding/grinding zones for instance and it's not so obvious that welders actually weld sideways too.

    It's also worth mentioning that if even a tiny part of another large bock falls within the tools effect zone, then it will be ground/welded. So you can weld up an entire turret or drill, for instance, just by having one corner of it within the tools range.

    If I remember correctly then welders can weld projections that are either on the same grid as the welders or on another grid, providing the projector itself is on the grid actually being welded and it is powered, but grinders can only grind if the target is on a separate grid. That's quite handy, as it means that you can put a safety guard in front of a grinder, on the same grid, and still grind blocks on the other side of it without affecting the guard.

    In you have any moving parts at all then it's worth using the blast door sections, as rails, buffers and guides. I prefer not to use wheels as they tend to either fall apart, make the grid behave oddly or react weirdly to other blocks hitting them.

    Welders will weld a projection from the point closest to the projector outwards. A block won't weld until at least one neighbouring block is welded. The projector must be either inside or the neighbour of a projected block, to get it started.

    I've used series of timers to do most of the cutting/welding automation and that is sufficient for most tasks, but switch to using the PB if you are happy coding and need precise timing. It's far easier to keep track of what each automation step does when you can comment the code around it. The only irritating thing with timing, is that you generally have to have a fairly good idea what speed multipliers you are planning on using the design with and then use them while testing, otherwise you'll end up having to adjust them again later. With the PB, it's fairly easy to build in a switch to say what multipliers you're using and adjust accordingly all at one go. With timers it can be a pain, if you have to adjust lots of them to keep the steps in sync.

    For every modification I make to a projected section, I tend to copy and paste the old one and then modify the copy. It's quicker and easier than trying to sort through all the different sections in the menu after a while and you might find you need to go back to an earlier design.

    Hope that helps a bit.
     
  5. Sergeant Snuggles Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    998
    @Tony Hughes Jebus....I honestly dont know if that helps me at this point but I sure as hell will find out when I get in game later on, really appreciate all of that info as I probably use some of it to get going, I already knew abou the welding/grinding arcs but I didnt know about grinders not affecting same grid so that explains a few things in previous models!

    I might actually pull this off!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. mhalpern Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,119
    there is one thing you can do with the projector on the ship, you have to merge the ship to the rail periodically, so that you can make the rail, alternatively you could place down a projector (with power to start the rail put your miner on the end of it, and at the end of the projector (set to deactivate on completetion) have another projector preset to active with the same blueprint and settings, for disconnecting things with grinders theres a specific rotor offset (that I cant remember) that works perfectly for that
     
  7. Sergeant Snuggles Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    998
    Hmmm that might get annoying if I have to keep merging a massive mining ship just to project out a few more railings for it to move forward another 5 - 10m. I have a sneaking suspicion this might be very easily doable and if I do pull it off it may become the norm for planet cave mining :p

    I was tempted to draw the rails of what I meant to give more of a context but im not nerdy enough to sit at work drawing SE stuff to then scan and put on here...I figure we can all just wait until I get home :p
     
  8. Mike55520 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    437
    Try building a drag behind cart that projects and use shipborne welders
     
  9. Sergeant Snuggles Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    998
    I get the feeling I am going to end up building a fully working steam train model at this rate! Getting really excited to get home and try it now! :(
     
  10. Eddy Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    90
    As Khalad said. build a station or whatever with a projector, make a rail road or what ever u want to use and make a blueprint which u use to project. all u need is a vehicle with a welders positioned in front of the wheels to build road before the wheels reach that section. this way you can make a rails go any way you want and all you need is to vehicle get in there so it will weld it up
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Tony Hughes Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    715
    Ah yes..last tip..before starting, make sure you don't have anything requiring a lot of thought going on at work for the next week or two, once you get going the automated self-building designs can be particularly hard to put down. :):)

    There's always one more little thing that you can try to make it work.
     
  12. Sergeant Snuggles Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    998
    You son of a.....

    Luckily I am a great multi tasker and indeed handle a lot of roles at work as it is so it shouldnt be too taxing on the old noodle as it is but that being said....I may have to start taking notes as well as helping screenies :(
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  13. Jas Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    443
    projected block can be welded only if they are adjacent in contact whit an already placed (full built or frame at 1%) block in the same grid (and size), and welder can be a separate grid, if this can help.
     
  14. Tony Hughes Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    715
    My smiley emoticons seem to have stopped working again, so that probably seemed more pointed than I intended it to be. Still, I lost a couple of weeks to one a few months back. Honestly couldn't tell you what else I was doing during that period.
     
  15. Sergeant Snuggles Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    998
    I already knew that bit but thanks all the same Jas :)

    One of the hardest things but also the simplest things I struggle with is creating the blueprint of the object to be blueprinted en masse. I want to mass produce a warhead....how do i get a BP of a warhead without attaching it to something else first and if you let them fall....just wait until the explosion :p
     
  16. Killacyte Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,659
    I have actually built almost exactly what you've asked for:
    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=371385243

    It was broken a long time ago by a wheel placement bug, and I haven't looked at it in a LONG time, but as long as it doesn't blow up on loading, you might be able to get some ideas from it. There's also relevant info in the description.
     
  17. Sergeant Snuggles Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    998
    Oh thanks Killacyte, that is pretty much what I am looking for except the single rail system you use as I wanted mine to be on 2 rails but yeah thanks for that I might borrow it to get an idea on welder placement etc.

    Thanks! :)
     
  18. Sergeant Snuggles Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    998
    Ok little update for everyone.....I tried this last night and didnt even make it to the projector phase of building. This is a total nightmare to get working as wheels on rails just for the width is annoying enough so i would need rotors instead so i can do the offset and its just....well its not worth it. I am not usually one to give up but after repeated attempts of simply trying to get wheels to sit on an armor railing without simply going through it...(yeah apparently those station armor blocks can hold up a mountain but god forbid you rest a hugely over dampened mining bore.)

    Instead I have started construction on a simple design of a large scale wheeled miner that has 4 mexpex drills in the format of 2 higher central drills and then 1 slightly lower to each side of that to cover the body and indeed wheeled area of the rover while moving. Even this proved to be a pain as I had to mess with my base defences to stop them attacking it during construction (but need to leave them on due to bug infestation.) Once I was passed the turret problem I got to work and got everything built into place, once the shell was done and it looked self sufficient I disconnected it from the station grid and what happened? it fell 1m and completely smashed its belly. I had purposely set it so the wheels would not bounce etc. and it still insisted on giving it such a huge bounce that the entire underside was ripped apart and I had to re attach everything....all interior controls, all wheels and suspension as well as the 4 piston mounted landing gears underneath. Those gears are simply so I can lock it to the floor if it gets a bit too heavy once the actual mining tests get started. All being well though I will have a large scale earth remover for commission :p

    Thanks to everyone who tried to help as I dont want it to seem like you wasted your time, I only managed a couple of hours playtime last night but int hat time I tested 17 variations on the 2 ship designs so I dont think I wasted the time :p
     
  19. WhiteWorlB Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    90
    Hey man.

    I've been thinking about something similar, the idea was to create a vehicle that can borrow in any direction.
    ive had a different approach though.

    I thought the "rail" would already be created by the drills.(the hole so to speak) I am currently designing a vehicle that presses its wheels on the outer corner.
    its quite hard due to space issues...(lel space issues)
    for the verticals im not sure if it can handle it. i had a complete ludacris solution containing a winch and an anchor, that works pretty well but is completely unreliable for multiplayer atm due to rotors.
    i can post some screenshots here give me a minute...or two
     
  20. WhiteWorlB Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    90
  21. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,828
    You device is basically two entities.

    A miner rig with wheels and welders, with a drill head at the front of it. Behind the drill head you want to place your welders and behind the welders you place your wheels. As the ship pushes forward, the welders create the tube for your vehicle's wheels to sit on.

    The second entity is a long tube at least the size of an asteroid. The miner should just fit inside the tube. The tube consists of a projector, a battery or reactor to power the projector. The powersource and the projector should be at the starting end of the tube.

    Set the projector to project an image of the tube on to itself while still in creative. So you build the entire tube. Create a blueprint. Then cast the blueprint on to itself. Take not of where the offsets are on the projector to get get it where it needs to be.

    Your drill ship has to drill a path wide enough to lay down the tube.

    However, the system is impractical. You will spend a lot of resources creating this long shaft of tubing when you can just use thrusters instead. You'll also have to spend time recovering the assets with a grinder for your next run. The only way this is practical is if the tube serves some sort of purpose, such as connecting two areas of a base together.
     
  22. Khalad Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    40
    I didnot get time earlier to work on that, but here is what I made in the past 2 hours (I could find some time to rest and enjoy SE ^^).



    Basically, you have the drills opening the hole, right after them, welders that put the rails (or the floor of the futur station tunnel), and the the side wheels to keep the ship on a strait line.

    I use wheels with 0 friction to slide on the welded floor and thrusters to move the whole thing. It works very well. Main problem with this solution : if the ship gets too heavy with stone, it will be lowered and welders at the front will be on the same spot as the armor blocks and stop welding them. Connectors are here to collect stone and eject it, but drills are a lot faster than this ejection system.

    On the 3rd picture, you can see the projector, and the blueprint is a simple 5x100 light armor block pad.

    This is still work in progress. I plan to add grinders at the rear of the ship to remove the 3 middle blocks to reduce the cost (steel plates). I cannot remove all 5 as I still need to get a connection between the projector and the front part of the floor to keep welding new blocks. Some polishing is also needed (lights, cameras), and then a lot of testing to make sur it works fine.

    Next step will be to build a ship to dig the rooms of my base and the vertical hole for my silo... ^^
     
  23. Wicorel Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,243
    Try making a small grid ship with wheels, battery, connector and lots of ejectors. Connect it to one of the large grid connectors at the back and pull it along with the miner.
     
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