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@Changes to CTG - Rules and Guidelines

Discussion in 'General' started by Thraxus, Sep 16, 2018.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Thraxus Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    5
    Hi Blitzzz333,

    I tried replying to your announcement directly. However, I lack the permission to do so. While I would have normally just let this idea die at this point, I feel it's important that my words at least get heard (and lambasted, as is typical for a public forum). Anyhow, please see below for the reply I was going to post.
    __________________________________________________________________________________________

    I’ve read through this announcement, and while I applaud KSH opening the doors for applications to the CTG, I don’t think the presentation of this opportunity really promotes a fair play and fun environment to become apart of.

    As a person willing to donate my time to help you make a game worth presenting to the public, there are a certain amount of expectations you’re failing to meet.

    First and foremost, I, and everyone here, understands that this privilege comes with the opportunity to interface with the development team. However, the section titled “Communication with Developers” really tells me that while I may have an opportunity to interface with them, I really shouldn’t hold my breath.

    Forcing contact through mediated channels (CTG Moderator) really does nothing to help or speed up a process. Quite the opposite really, since instead of getting information or questions first hand, you’re relying on a second-hand party to distribute the message. Who knows what may slip through the cracks there. Forum posts and direct lines of communication with the team are really the only options that will provide a thoughtful and productive environment given the potentially global distribution of the CTG members.

    If I choose to reach out to someone while they are working, I understand that a delay in response may occur. However, as a professional, I also expect an answer within some reasonable amount of time. If no answer for my question is available now, then a simple, ‘I have no answer’, response would be perfectly acceptable. The point is, the person in the know has taken time to read my question and respond to my concern. This imparts a feeling of importance to the work I’m doing and gives me a reason to continue to donate my time to the cause. Statements like “Don’t expect an answer” have no business in this type of activity. “Don’t expect an answer”, to me, translates into, “Don’t waste my time”.

    The Code of Conduct is also interesting, and yet another item that dissuades me from wanting to put in an application to the CTG. Do you really feel that the quality of folks you have in the test group would be the type of folks who would violate any of these rules on a general basis? If so, I’d highly suggest working on your screening process. While I’m sure there is some corporate rule that requires some sort of amplified ruleset be in place, there is no reason to make me feel like I’m trying to join a paramilitary organization of children hell bent on making KSH look bad in the public eye. If moderators had any place in the CTG, it’s to monitor lines of communication to ensure incidents like this don’t happen. When they do, the offending person would then be removed from the group for being a “bad egg”, if you will.

    Lastly, if I were a member of the CTG, I would be a person, like anyone already working at KSH. The fact that I’m willing to work for free essentially tells you that I’m more than willing to lend a helping hand. However, in lieu of monetary compensation, I expect to be respected as much as anyone else. Additionally, the promotion of a fun and thought-provoking environment to collaborate in would up the appeal tenfold. As is, this announcement, the “rules”, and the replies above lead me to believe this isn’t an endeavor I should consider now. Maybe at some point, but certainly not today. I do, however, wish you the best of luck.
     
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  2. Jimmacle Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    51
    This just about sums it up, really.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  3. GrindyGears Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,787
    Man, he's not even in CTG and he already understands us better than Keen does, get this individual a nice fresh baked cookie.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  4. Burstar Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    459
    Well written OP, although I feel like you're reading too much into the CoC.

    It's really only there as boilerplate. If they don't tell you what is inappropriate there is an out when someone does act inappropriately. You can thank excessive litigation for this. Also, somewhere along the lines it became required to proactively foster a 'safe' working environment (at least in Canada) and CoC's are pretty much the least they can do to fulfill this requirement.

    To me this falls under the "warning, hot coffee is hot" silliness that is the economic environment. Believing everyone you deal with isn't dumb will just cost you: The CoC isn't there because they think you will, it's there to protect them incase you do.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  5. GrindyGears Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,787
    @Burstar there is nothing in the CoC that isn't already covered by the rules of the discord, the forums, etc. It's an entirely redundant document that was Ham fisted onto us with what appears to us to be the intention of banning dissenting opinions.

    I won't get any further into that matter thoguh
     
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  6. Burstar Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    459
    I don't see how having a CoC bans dissenting opinions. People with opinions worth considering can dissent civilly without breaking the CoC.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Thraxus Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    5
    I think it’s very important to understand that the comments I made directed towards the Code of Conduct are not necessarily because of its content. More so my point is that the people who are expected to adhere to it are somehow at greater risk of breaking the rules than the rest of us. Quite the contrary should be true. If anything, all of us (CTG and the rest of us common folk) should be governed by the same rule set. Ideally though, the channels of communication for the CTG should be as unrestricted as possible, while still maintaining a level of expected professionalism.

    There seems to be the misunderstanding that more rules create a safer and more collaborative environment. Reality though says that the more rules in place, the less freedom one has. Less freedom means more unnecessary complications, which in turn makes for a more restrictive and hostile work environment since you can’t really be sure what you’re saying is going to vibe with the group as well as you’d think. Failure to comply, or failure to consider the myriad of cultures involved when you say something, makes it so you’re more likely to not say anything at all. This isn’t no longer a safer environment. This is now a hostile environment.

    This leads into one area I failed to comment on with my original post, and that’s transparency. Transparency has become a very hot topic lately in my industry (automotive electronics), for good reason. If stakeholders aren’t shown why some decision was made, or why some rule was changed, then you risk ruining trust with them. I guarantee you that anyone reading this post is more likely to accept bad news if you’re given a clear reason as to why it happened, than if you were just handed the bad news without explanation. It’s simple logic – show me the reason for x, and, even if I don’t like it, I’ll comply to y.

    Comments in the announcement lead me to believe that decisions are being made arbitrarily by some person that affect everyone. Why? At what point does the hubris get so high than you think you know exactly what is best for anyone, or everyone? Especially with regards to the current moderator of the SE CTG. This appears to be a position of importance, as they are the window person between KSH and the CTG. However, instead of picking the best person for the job by opening the idea to the CTG, gathering feedback, and then making an informed decision, the person (or people) responsible for appointing an individual as moderator ignored the CTG and just made up their mind using no information. You can argue that they had all the information they need to make the decision, but I’ll counterpoint that with the apparent disappointment shown by the CTG members who are speaking out.

    No decision that affects everyone, especially in a volunteer position, should be arbitrarily decided upon without proper consultation of those affected most. Even a heads up with an explanation of why they weren’t consulted would have been better than the apparent blindside. I will admit that all my information here is second hand conjecture form the posts I’ve seen. However, I know from the modding community that some of those people speaking out are usually level-headed people.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
  8. Burstar Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    459
    You guys should Unionize. I don't know the laws in Keenehstan (Czechia) but I wouldn't be surprised if it was possible.
     
  9. GrindyGears Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,787
    You didn't have the displeasure of reading the original CoC, this version is much more sane (but still not perfect), and not written in a way that was poorly worded such that criticism could be considered a breach of the CoC, should they choose to enforce it to the letter.
     
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Thread Status:
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