# Components with motion

Discussion in 'Suggestions and Feedback' started by kuro11, Sep 13, 2013.

This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
1. ### kuro11Apprentice Engineer

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As we work with friends (or become space pirates) there should be ways for ships to interact beyond simple "interstellar battering ram" - we need whirling rams of death.

I'd like to propose a few categories of components (All shamelessly taken from Gimbal and Garry's Mod):
*Grappling hook - a constraint based turret / gun that allows two ships to tether to eachother. Bigger = tougher to break away.
*Docking clamp/rod - two pieces that would allow two ships to merge when touched / activated, then later released. Essential for trading stations that don't want to create a massive hold for larger ships. Larger area = stronger grip before breaking.
*Motor - Think a hinge that applies force to each side along an axis. It would theoretically be an array of such blocks with one ('n' x 'n') surface colored such a way to indicate the rotating plate. Any block attached to the plate would rotate with the plate. surface area of plate determines grip strength, volume of motor array directly behind plate determines torque.
*Slider - Allows for single axis movement. Imagine 4 blocks in a line with a single, special surface along the length where blocks are moved in parallel when built on top of it. Width of line determines grip strength, depth of sliders directly behind the surface determines torque.
*Piston - Allows for a single axis movement. Imagine 'n' blocks in a 1x1 line. These 'n' blocks could push a rod outward 'n-roundup(n/2)' blocks from the front. if a width x height x length (with 'n' being length, e.g. 1x1x'n') sized Piston is made, width and heights determines the newtons of force it is capable of.

This would be quite difficult to implement efficiently (or at least I imagine it to be so) but would allow for some amazing creations.

I'd say the concept of 'grip strength' would probably be optional with most of them.

Any thoughts / suggested alterations?

2. ### TechyBenJunior Engineer

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Like the ideas and hope some of them are planned for the game.

One of the designs I would like to put in this game would have rotating/angled wings. So a rotating/moving section of some sort would be helpful. At the least it would allow for the design of rotating space stations. Or additionally controllable doors/bays or even robot arms!

A moving axis or rotating axis should not be "impossible" to implement, as multiple craft are already shown to exist. So multiple parts could be extended some how (in theory everything is possible to program, but not everything can be done with limited time and money! ).

A grappling hook would give opportunities for great fun in a multiplayer environment. Just think of the mischief that could be caused.

3. ### desarkoTrainee Engineer

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This could give me the opportunity to make a real pirate ship in space, rope climbing frames and all!

4. ### Scorpion00021Senior Engineer

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I would at least like to see some kind of doors that can be opened/closed and are large enough to be suitable for a hangar.

5. ### shangiskhanTrainee Engineer

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I like these ideas of docking ports and hanger doors. These seem like reasonable achievements that could easily be included in some of the first updates. Along with weapons which Im still unclear about. I see them in the video but have they been worked out yet?

6. ### kuro11Apprentice Engineer

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Weapons have been confirmed by youtube comments from the trailer's posting account.

The type, limitations, and other details are unknown.

7. ### jstylenTrainee Engineer

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All good suggestions. Firstly, though, I would like to see docking clamps. I, of course, plan to build a huge carrier at some point. But clamps would be great for space stations and possibly transferring supplies to other ships, if that's even a thing. It would also be cool if you could re modulate your ship via docking of several smaller ships.

8. ### DevilDudeTrainee Engineer

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I'd like to see some type of rotation bearing, that would allow for the creation of rotating sections, and for other elements like radar dishes.

9. ### Matias GrayTrainee Engineer

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Yes, and a rotating comand seat, that can turn to another window, if i want.

10. ### jstylenTrainee Engineer

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I recall one of the mods mentioning something about rotating sections. Don't quote me on that though.

11. ### B3nnyjwTrainee Engineer

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Kuro, these are great ideas. I love the idea of having moving parts on the ships. Docking should definately be a thing. Pistons, hinges, etc are all going to be pretty interesting. Also consider that traditional concepts of these things happen under gravity. In the absence of gravity significantly less force would be required to couple ships together or manipulate and move ships.

Does anybody know if the game engine uses inertia and center of mass? The consequences of having ships that move means that you are able to shift the center of mass, as well as the moment of intertia. In a situation where a ship needs to quickly turn, you could theoretically retract parts of the ship about the turning axis and spin the ship faster. Think of it like spinning in an office chair with your arms out, and then pulling the arms close to your body. If you have a ramming ship you could place pistons on the "battering ram" portion of the ship and fire them just before contact to massively increase its ability to puncture external armor.

I feel like this engine would be one of the few capable of making this work, but that's just speculation. It makes me wonder how the game will react to complicated movements. If two pistons of different lengths are connected to two plates, equidistant on each end, and then the pistons are extended, how will the game calculate that? Now add 3 pistons, can it handle 3? 4, 5, etc?

12. ### kuro11Apprentice Engineer

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The physics engine in VRage is havok and seems to lean towards "realistic" side of things. So I think most of your questions are answered by "whatever happens in a source game" or "look at garry's mod" for constraints between rigid bodies in those scenarios.

And there are some good examples of physics shennanigans in this blog post:
https://www.spaceengineersgame.com/steam-early-access-announcement.html

13. ### Phero TyrianTrainee Engineer

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I think centre of mass is definitely present in the game engine, for example the ship at the start of the alpha video kept turning sideways because its centre of mass was not in line with its current centre of thrust. I don't know how pistons would necessarily function but if they just applied a certain amount of force in both directions until they were fully extended then it would work reasonably well: solves the problems you suggested, if two of different lengths compete then they both extend to the limit of the smallest and then the destruction system sees how much they bend/break depending on the force being applied.

Oops, ninja'd

14. ### diegopinateTrainee Engineer

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I think this games totally needs this. This was the first idea I thought of as soon as I started building ships. Adding movable parts will allow the users to create pretty much any machine they want, from moving Gatling guns to whole Mechas. I would love to work on a huge Mech to fly around in space and use hand movements to tear opponents, friends and mine the asteroids with mechanized hand-drills. HOW COOL WOULD THAT BE? :crazy: :thumb:
I know it's early in the process, but wow, that would rock! So please do it dev-teaaam D:

15. ### CptTwinkieMaster Engineer

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I'd very much like to know what's going on with moment of inertia. I need to experiment to make sure but it seems that they're using a dummy radius. If they are I'd like to figure out what it is so I can write an equation to calculate how many gyros I want given a mass.

16. ### TechyBenJunior Engineer

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Instead of making a new thread, I thought I'd post in this one. Posting an example of a ship that could use a simple joint/motor/pivot. It has a shield, but it would be handy for it to be able to open and close. I've looked at the existing landing gear, and they don't quite have the flexibility or ability needed to do more than hold and release.

Another example is a rotating shield:

This one does currently use docking clamps. Though it "works" a slight bump when moving them and they spin off away from the ship. So again, the clamps allow for interesting designs, but without a motor/pivot type block, construction is limited. With one, even simple and functional parts such as Hanger Bay Doors could be made.