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Comprehensive WEAPONS Thread

Discussion in 'Suggestions and Feedback' started by TrashMan, Nov 12, 2013.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. TrashMan Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    26
    There's a tons of suggestions floating around in many trheads, so in an effort to organize this and make it more presentable to the Devs, I suggest gathering the best suggestion on a specific topic and put it all into one, organized discussion thread.

    I will be editing this first post to add new suggestions and I invite the next few posters to edit their posts in case I miss something so that the FRIST page contains all the necessary stuff.


    So without further ado..... WEAPONZ


    1) more of them, naturally.
    - kinetic weapons (slug throwers and kinetic-kill missiles) Colguns, railguns, regular guns.
    - lasers
    - particle weapons
    - missiles

    2) Fixed weapons for capital ships - built in massive forward-fixed cannons for sniping, side-fixed cannons for braodsides, fixed launch tubes for torpedos (tube must roughly point towards the target) and heavy missiles (360° fire, missles can turn around and can be fired regardless of ship facing)

    3) weapons of different sizes - both turreted and fixed. Eitehr by providing bigger variants or allowing weapons scaling. (with drawbacks depending on weapon type - mass, energy required, storage space for ammo would increase depending on weapon... Gattling type weapons would suffer big drawbacks with scale, reducing RoF dramaticly)
     
  2. Kyle_Katarn Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    37
    I'd advise against putting anything remotely sci-fi within these sorts of topics. It seems to be a trigger word for a good few people in this community. Still, I do see the potential for awesome if sci-fi-type weapons were added in, and can't wait for the modding scene to further develop.
     
  3. TrashMan Trainee Engineer

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    26
    Eh? Everything is sci-fi.
    I thik you mean more fantastical.

    Well, worry not. Everything listed has firm roots in reality.
     
  4. bwc153 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    76
    Coilguns and Railguns I see are possible within the next 60 years. Lasers and particle weapons, not really. Think about it, if you have a laser that will melt through the enemy armor, it'll also most likely melt the device "firing" the laser.
     
  5. Valdemar |FIN| Junior Engineer

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    631
    Well, there is experimental laser anti-missile technology existing already, but there are no anti-tank lasers yet, so as point defense technology lasers are very likely.

    Also suggestion for gun scaling: there would be different classes of turrets such as gun, laser and missile, and an example for Guns class would be following:

    Gun
    lv1= Gatling
    lv2= Autocannon (Like Flak 88)
    lv3= Cannon
    lv3= Big cannon or Multi-barrel cannon tower

    And missiles:
    lv1= Swarm missiles
    lv2= Regular (Modern Anti-Air missile)
    lv3= Cruise missile (Modern Anti-Ground missile)
    lv4= Heavy torpedo

    Also no level up required to build bigger weapons; user selects directly what he wants to build.
     
  6. ravenhawk82 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    14
    I really like the idea of a massive keel-mounted railgun. Considering that various militaries are already experimenting with railguns, they are well within the realm of possibility ~70 years in the future.
     
  7. Valdemar |FIN| Junior Engineer

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    631
    There is a thread about railguns and their pros and cons (the thread has also Gravity Cannon suggestion but it has been scrapped)
     
  8. karnaughatlas Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    7
    I'd really like to see a turret system similar to what StarMade has, so we could actually create turrets out of blocks and attach them to the hull where they could aim independently of the ship. Speaking of StarMade, I also like their 'weapon system' system, where you can add more and more weapon blocks to a system to increase the power. I dig the flexibility, but I can imagine that it would be hard to make it look good and fit in with the art design of the game.
     
  9. Ironmike Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    205
    Id like to see blocks that do things, or allow things, and let the player assemble their own weapons and tools, if they so desire.


    For example - superconductor blocks (rails, transportation) Heat sinks, electricity prong-like thinks (electric cannon), accelerator, targeting unit, barrels, emitters, actuators etc.
     
  10. Detjen Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    17
    Lasers are not some mystical "Sci-fi" weaponry, they have in fact already been deployed on the battlefield before any rail gun system. current Laser systems focus on air defense and ordinance disposal, they can destroy un-exploded IEDS and landmines, shells in flight and even missiles and drones. A German defense company has a 50 kw laser that can cut through a 15mm steel girder though I cant find any info on how long that takes so I cant comment on how viable it is against vehicles yet, but it does lean towards Anti-infantry laser weaponry that could cut through cover and defenses.

    Defensive lasers as they are being deployed for now would provide a fast acting screen against projectiles and probly evening smaller ships, able to either detonate the fuel or the warhead in a missile/fighter/drone, or to maybe deflect or deform a solid projectile round such as a rail gun shell, potentially lessening its lethality. and with light/lasers traveling at 186,282 miles per second anything within a 186,000 mile area is going to be struck as soon as the trigger is pulled, reducing or eliminating the need to "lead" targets, making for easier calculations for shots by either computer or a person if manual fire is needed for whatever reason.

    Lasers would also shine in a long range capacity, the earth and moon being somewhere around 1.3 light seconds it would require some advanced but not impossible calculations for attacking evading targets at that range and being a laser it would take that 1.3 seconds to hit the target, while solid projectile weaponry would be in the time frame of minutes to hours (new horizons spacecraft could propel itself to the moon in about 8 hours, I would suspect futuristic weaponry could probably travel faster but the sheer amount of energy to get a projectile up to significant percentages of near light speed would still cap them at one point, the energy cost would eventually exceed that needed for just firing the laser at it.)

    Missiles, railguns and other projectiles would come back into their own in "close range" combat, where their own travel time is reduced to seconds, where they can use their potential kinetic energy to bring some hurt onto a ship with little chance of a ship evading said projectiles.

    Partical weapons are the only thing im not sure about, and not because of practicability, particle weapons will come into their own in some form, but will they have a place between lasers and railguns, or will they just be used in the same roles as a sort of redundant system?

    Either way you cannot reject lasers on the grounds of sci-fi while you are talking about railguns, lasers are already in the field while railguns are fired once or twice a year in testing fields, while engineers continue to improve and develop materials to make railguns practical, there will be further innovations on lasers new materials new capsitors even new energy generation methods, if your flying in space there will be a practical use for lasers and a smart Captain would do well to keep himself armed with as many choices as possible.
     
  11. TrashMan Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    26
    We already have a working railgun:
    [​IMG]

    But in general, coilguns are a better solution. Coils suffer less wear than rails and there is no accuracy loss.
    In general, few things could match a coilgun/railgun in terms of damage. Good ol'd kinetic energy is reliable. At massive ranges in space however, even 0.1% of light speed (which would require a metric crapton of power) is not that fast.


    Particle weapons...well, the old CRT monitors are basicly particle cannons. Weak ones with a wide "beam", but the working principle is the same.

    Lasers:
    [​IMG]

    The military is experimenting with them. It has several prototypes that did well, but the main problem are power generation and heat dissipation. In other words, lasers require a lot of mantainance and frequent replacement of the focal mirror.

    In general, lasers have a problem of defraction and diffusion, generally becoming weaker at range (yes, even in space). While they have the greatest possible accuracy and range of any weapon (save MAYBE missiles, but that wouldnt' be EFFFECTIV range), they would also have the biggest problem doign significant damage, as lasers require the focusing of the beam on a specific spot to brun trough - something that is exceedingly difficult to do when both the platform and the target are moving.


    All talk of range in space aside tough - in space engineers, combat ranges will be FAR, FAAAAR shorter anyway.
     
  12. Mac D Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    521
    I agree with Ironmike on this generally.

    In short. my approach is:

    Give us more realistic and functional blocks. Build/design weapons (and other civilian stuff) we will. Destroy things we shall (after some spectacular/comical trial and error experiments).

    A longer version of this approach is in other topic, but it is my mantra on most topics now (http://forums.keenswh.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1280313225&postcount=39)

    On the topic of realistic weapons.
    Very close range tools/weapons for general "hull cutting", boarding pods, and boarding teams.

    • A large drilling system (cuts holes the size of 1 large ship armor block, to get a boarding party inside) and (I would have the drill bits as a series of blocks, for building a fit-for-purpose length). It also could need all the other generic functional blocks for more realistic moving parts to be added to the game.
    • A huge plasma torch (basically just like the current thrusters, but instead it projects around 2-20 metres worth of extremely hot plasma blade. (Current welding/cutting technology, just scaled up). A much more feasible weapon with current technology than a long ranged plasma cannon.
    • Detonators and demolition charges (hand-held for boarding parties, and/or as build-able blocks)
    These all add very close range tactical options for small ships to cause damage to big ships after getting very close (and often attaching themselves to hulls in some way). Presumably after the small craft has dodged all the missile, railgun slugs, and had powerful lasers bounce of there shiny mirrored silver paint job. These ideas were brought over from http://forums.keenswh.com/post/drill-threw-ship-hulls-6619653.
     
  13. Kamoba Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,389
    What's to say the weapons on the small ship will be so in-effective we need all these extras?....
     
  14. DRAGONOFTRUTH Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    4
    I feel as though we are forgetting that this is 70 years in the future and we have no backstory of the world of Space Engineers.

    Maybe the earth was completely destroyed in the cold war and those who survived lived on to become space engineers.

    Basically, it is pointless ( in my opinion ) to discuss weapons and the physics and chemistry behind them.

    The thread regarding the pros and cons of a railgun is what I think what we need to focus on, as in, if we include a railgun with x power, x length, x accuracy, x mobility, x power use, etc etc what are the pros and cons.

    I find it useless and , frankly, I am skeptical about the explanations provided for the way lasers/railguns work today.

    Simply my two bits~
     
  15. Mac D Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    521
    Expanding on what people like Ironmike and I have been suggest about building weapons out of blocks, this how I would do it if we had a new set of functional blocks. You will have to uses some imagination and pretend they are built inside a ships hull somewhere. Also blocks have sightly different shapes and skins.


    Constructing Railguns from Colour-coded hypothetical blocks.


    Special hypothetical/suggested railgun specific blocks needed.
    Red blocks (Electromagnetic accelerator coils)
    Each of these blocks (if able to function) will add maybe a set amount of velocity to slug (lets say 200 m/s). More red blocks in a row more slug velocity at barrel exit (in principle)
    Black component/block (Railgun loading/trigger module)
    Interface and block shape similar to thrusters. Controls railgun Has multiple “ammo slots” to potentially have different magazines allowing changeable ammo types. Slug loading is fast (never the limiting factor in rate of fire.)
    Yellow blocks (Slug magazine/conveyor blocks )
    Each yellow block has a capacity of slugs (say 20 x 2 kg solid iron slugs for starters) and a conveyor system to move ammo to next box connected using “ammo slots”.
    More blocks in magazine mean more ammo capacity.

    I see the current Gatling guns have cargo-style hatches, so their ammo resupply system might work along similar principles.
    Hypothetical/suggested general blocks needed.
    Blue blocks (Rapid heat transfer blocks). Decorated like current interior wall blocks but with lots of pipes. Might be made of a solid with high thermal conductivity, or some pumped coolant. Moves heat rapidly away from a waste heat source (in this case electromagnetic accelerator coils) towards a heat sink.
    White blocks (Dedicated capacitors). Gives attached system a temporary semi-independent power supply. The capacitors allow the railgun to fire when there is not enough power from the reactor. Extra capacitors may allow the railgun to have temporary increased rate of fire untill capacitors are depleted (say a 3 round burst and then the capacitors need to recharge).
    [​IMG][​IMG]




    The basic working railgun is shown on the left with just a Railgun loading/trigger module, one slug magazine, and one Electromagnetic accelerator coils. It shoots a slow slug when the ships reactors can provide enough power, it has very limited ammo, and is prone to overheating.
    The blocks can naturally be rearranged to fit into space on the ship/turret and blocks added/removed to optimise the functions for a specific ship or purpose.
    The advanced railgun fires much faster slugs (say 6 times faster, six red blocks), and the extra waste heat is removed by the coolant blocks. It has extended magazine size and this part of the ship can fire for longer without needing ammo resupplied. Increased rate of fire and some firing while thrusters are using all reactor power, are the advantages of extra capacitors.
    The green block is an optional telescopic scope camera for targeting at say 200 km distances (maybe with some basic course tracking, but no guaranty that the ship will still be there when the slug arrives in a few minutes time!)

    Ideas for railgun ammo types (different magazine boxes, maybe).
    -Start with a basic solid iron slugs.
    -Then maybe iron grapeshot (say 6 diverging projectiles) to turn it into a flack gun or shotgun.
    -Maybe later some extra ammo like dum-dum rounds, to spread the damage on impact (the physics of these may be more difficult). Explosive slugs. Other alloys/metals?
     
  16. Mac D Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    521
    Some more discussion of bigger weapons in the general spirit of "Build them from blocks" can be found at...

    http://forums.keenswh.com/post/weapon-blueprints-6594469?highlight=barrel

    and some earlier discussion along similar lines at....

    http://forums.keenswh.com/post/larger-weapons-for-ships-6583567?highlight=barrel&trail=30

    and

    http://forums.keenswh.com/post/breaking-down-weapons-into-their-most-elementary-parts-6567686?highlight=barrel
     
  17. Kamoba Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,389

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEEIGrTjs6M
     
  18. AsherPhoenix Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    36
    @Kamoba i must admit that video was rather amusing but still i don't understand why besides that fact that theres 3 people that got whooped and theres 3 threads... and that that girl probably coulda kicked all their asses with that fan thingy in her hand O.o.............
     
  19. Oyster Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    6
    The more i think about the idea of modular weapons, the more I'm opposed. At first i really liked the idea, but then after more thought, no other system in the game is modular like this, nor does it seem like anything will be. but besides that, the simple approach of weapons makes more sense. I've played a bit of Starmade and it has a "modular" weapon setup of sorts that makes for some pretty ridiculous and non aesthetically pleasing ships that are, in a way, just flying guns. Maybe a simple weapon component system with balance, for instance, being able to customize the ammunition aspects of the gun may be a bit much, unless there will be ammo for other weapons in the game.

    I like the idea of having either a fixed stats and shape of weapons, or some minor modularization like, barrel/rail length which in the case of the railgun determines the muzzle velocity and power draw. Since kinetic energy is what causes most of the damage here, that really should be the only stat that's changeable. So length determines the speed, and width determines the mass of the projectile. What ever this stat is, there's a certain power draw in order to fire the weapon, so the rest of the weapons stats would depend on the actual ships power management.

    That's just what makes sense to me, if any of that makes sense to you. In other words: Simple is better. If fully modular weapons don't make it into the game but SOME kind of anti-capital ship weapon makes it, that's fine with me.
     
  20. Banditolobster Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    34
  21. Leonhardt Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,930
    I sort of already made a thread like this.
    http://forums.keenswh.com/post/new-tools-and-weapons-discussion-and-brainstorming-6649674

    though I don't blame you, only like, 1 person replied to it.
     
  22. hatdudeman Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    94
    I have a great idea for a melee weapon A WRENCH. Think about it left clicking could beat somebody over the head and right click could repair blocks... or plumbing either or.
     
  23. Praesumo Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    110
    Mines of various types.

    1) Sensor Mine. Detects enemies within it's vicinity and relays that information to you. Can be used to set up early warning systems around your mining sites, or to let you know when someone is at a certain location so you can go attack them. Needs Line of sight. (Can be disguised as small rock?)

    2) Magnetic Explosive Mines. Within the range of the magnet, it attracts itself toward the enemy, and detonates when it gets close enough.

    3) Scatter Mine. Designed to get small ships off your tail, it's used defensively. Upon being dropped, it immediately "pops" and scatters many smaller explosives in a random pattern. Not the biggest damage, but should be enough to make pursuers go around. For small ships only.

    4) Leaper Mines. When in range, these mines will rotate towards enemy ships and use a quick one time rocket boost to jump towards them. Similar to Bouncing Bettys

    5) EMP/Surge Mines. Designed to disable ships rather than blow them up. This mine Shorts out the electronics of a ship, by overloading and damaging the reactor, forcing the unfortunate ship to lose power and head to the reactor room to repair the generator. Great for disabling ships and then going to board them. Also can be used as a first wave, to get the ship to drift into a field of mines or an asteroid if placed fiendishly.
    --------------------
    Other Dropped Items

    Flares. Your standard missile deterrent. Distracts already fired missiles from their original target. Not 100% foolproof

    ECM/Chaff. Designed to put a cloud of microscopic metal particles between you and the attacking ship, keeping it from getting a missile lock.
     
  24. damoran Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    608
    I think a viable solution would be to make the turret mount dictate the limits for the weapon attached to it.

    This will allow players the freedom to customize their turrets but eliminate the excessive.

    It could be a block limit and/or power limit. The more blocks or modules you put on the turret mount the slower it turns/tracks.

    Additionally, the actual weapon modules have their own limitations as far a reload speed, but perhaps dmg can be increased slightly based on a barrel length

    So in theory the player can control the look and power of the weapon at the expense of speed, tracking, and dmg potential. And it will keep all turrets within the same realative size. Some will be larger and slower but do more damage while others are small, fast and weak.
     
  25. Leonhardt Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,930
    I rather like the design of the VS weapons from Lost Planet 2.
    Their Gatling Gun and missile launcher already look like the ones we have.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Though, admittedly, there aren't a lot of possible variations on the basic design of a 3 barreled gatling gun or 4 tube missile launcher.

    I also like the design of some of the other weapons, and think it would be neat to strap a few on a fighter.

    The Shotgun would be a deadly close range Small Ship weapon, great for bombers or defensive craft.
    [​IMG]
    It'd have crazy high recoil that could easily propel a ship in the opposite direction when fired without ample thruster compensation.
    Would require a conveyor feed, as well to restock ammunition.

    The cannon would be the staple long range weapon for small ships, dealing heavy damage to armored targets like stations and large ships.
    [​IMG]
    Would have an unconventional shape, with an ammo box sticking out at an angle on the end, creating an L shape.
    Would require manual reloading of shells.

    The single shot Ship Rocket Launcher is the big daddy of all small ship weapons, having crazy high impact damage and explosion blast radius.
    [​IMG]
    Is incredibly effective versus Large Ships and big targets, but must be reloaded manually, and only carries one shot.

    The grenade launcher is another explosive weapon designed for bombers, launching a low velocity shell that separates into six smaller bomblets after a short time, making it a great area denial weapon.
    [​IMG]
    Has a 5 round cylindrical magazine, which must be reloaded manually.

    The Pile Bunker is a deadly short range weapon that doubles as a mining tool. Uses explosives to drive a large metal spike forward, impaling whatever is in front of it.
    [​IMG]
    Can punch through armor with ease, but requires the pilot to get within point blank range. Imagine the spaceship jousting matches.
     
  26. SaturaxCZ Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,718
    Engineer logic:

    Work with all tools and informations you get without limitations :rof:

    Was posted on diferent topic before in diferent kontext, dont know how did it get here too... :confused: its like virus :D
     
  27. Sims_doc Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    876
    Finally People are beginning to understand!
     
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