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Concept Art & Game design : Farms & Food. +Wild life.

Discussion in 'Suggestions and Feedback' started by JassBefrold, May 21, 2016.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. 666Savior Apprentice Engineer

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    196
    I like the spread of tiers for how hungry/well fed your engineer is. The times seem decent as well. I like having to wait a while before having to eat again in a game. I'm used to DayZ standalone, so I share the pain of having to eat every 20 or 30 minutes to keep the character happy. If Keen does implement food, they should use this scale as a guide. It would work well and mimics real life to a decent extent without making it extremely tedious.
     
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  2. Levits Senior Engineer

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    2,122
    No prob Hakon, I figure it's better to throw ideas out there now for the Devs to consider rather than to complain about how they should have done it later. At least we can say we tried :D

    Well, considering that the grinding process would require you to disassemble computers with your hands and not with a skill-saw (of course I'm talking with regards to a real-life situation) I can see manual hand-tool grinding/welding/drilling speeds being affected... Or perhaps even better for drilling, the weight limit on the astronaut being reduced. <or both.

    Just thought about it but if you are starving, you aren't going to be carrying the same amount as you would if you were full/healthy. So maximum weight limit could also be reduced when you're starving.

    Reducing max HP would keep the "cheat" of spamming the medbay to heal from happening. Heh, didn't even think about that actually so that's a better alternative and would be tied into the alteration/addition of reducing the astronauts weight limit. <I'm trying to consider things that can be used for other aspects/features.

    So... slower walking speed, reduced total health, lower carry weight, lower health regeneration. Of course this would be a very gradual thing once starvation hits a critical point. You'd be perfectly fine for about 3 days...<yeah, time-frame is part of balancing. It's just easier for me to base it on the realistic value. I figure as long as it takes food longer to grow (for higher tiers) than it takes for you to starve, it will become a thing to consider. The tier 1 is a backup/emergency thing and would produce just enough to keep you alive.

    ...and after reading a few of the other posts that I ignored, seems I'm a little late on the reduced inventory idea :woot:
     
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  3. Hakon102 Apprentice Engineer

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    You forgot the blurred view in the later stages of starving ;)

    Reducing inventory weight is a good Idea. But, what happen if current inv. weight > max. inv. weight. E.g. your inventory weight is full, then you drop in a lower hungry stage.

    Greetings
     
  4. w0ps Apprentice Engineer

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    Dropping seems too annoying and random so it's probably best if nothing drops from inventory, but won't accept anything above the limit. This is not a feature to abuse because what use is it to keep stuff in the inventory
     
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  5. Levits Senior Engineer

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    I'd say that a movement speed limiter would be the best effect rather than having you dump anything that you're carrying. If you are already moving sluggishly from lack of food, and then you reach that lower hunger stage and have your carry weight affected, it would simply make you move that much more slower. I wouldn't exactly force a lower carrying capacity, just make it that much more difficult to move up to and until you reach a point where you can no longer move (specifically "walk". Jetpack would still get you around; but you'd have issues flying with the vision issues). <This would be pretty late-stage hunger though. If you're still trying to carry that much stuff while starving... you're overexerting yourself while starving or you should be using some construction equipment... regardless, something's gone horribly wrong.

    And yeah, totally forgot to add the blurry vision ;)
     
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  6. JassBefrold Trainee Engineer

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    Woah! I had no freaking notifications for coming messages for some reason... . Okay so here my message to answer a bit everybody and make a reminder. I tend to make that idea as much vanilla as possible, as I think how the game mechanics itself entirely is pretty neutral . Remember, gameplay harmony between each category. To mining, to grow plants. Additional stuff should be open tho to mods, but it is just a personal opinion, if Keen allow it:

    1- Due to my french, I may have misunderstood the use of the word "Tier" here. Those 3 tiers aren't really a level of "what is better" but more a category itself. As I explained, (3 times now lol) each types of farms has their Con AND Pro. They are adaptive to your situation.
    Typically, the more effort you put in a greenhouse (building Tier2), the more energy you will save. But with the cost of having weak glasses between your crops and the deadly space. With risk of debris, pirates or even you crashing into it.

    2- Someone said it was too complicate. All I did is follow the same modus operandi as mining:
    Mining: Ore->(Refinery)->Ingots->(Assemblers)->Components
    Mining ground: Seed
    ->(Farms)->Crops->(Automated Kitchen)->Foods

    There is also a change:
    Mining: Ice
    ->(Refinery)->Water(kept in water tanks)->consumed by 1,2 or 3
    1.Oxygen generator->Oxygen
    2.Oxygen generator->Hydrogen
    3.Water crops

    What could be simplified is that the player should have a bag of seed as starter, so it doesn't force the player to live all along on food replicator. And so, to not ruins his choice to do a run for a planet immediately. Still, the player will have to go to planet for more seeds. Make sense that if there is no planets on the world, so player should start with all seeds available. Or possibly try to find them on pirates bases, NPC ships and other things around.

    I think the same person said approx: "I don't wanna deal with sun on farms" Well, it is why the Tier 3 is there. But it will have cost on energy and components. Plus their rate creations is less than a classic farm

    3- About seeds gathering some mentioned the lack of nutriments in the ground for some planets. It is true, I believe Keen will need to categories each planets during the procedural creations. Any planet type that has oxygen to begin with. Something like: [Procedural Earth type planet / Alien type planet: Options biomes earth drop seed: True.] [ Procedural: Moons, dead planet type: options biomes drop seed: False.]

    Real problem: Do we need to consider fertility of the ground/rocks(ore)? I don't know and have no opinion on that. I'll say a slightly no, just for simplification sake and the amount of work (coding) wise it implied. The use of rocks for the farm type 2 and 3 are generally used as soil for plants to grow. Otherwise it become a hydroponic farm and doesn't need it any more. So to resume possibilities:

    -Use rocks with fertility: Include more coding, more specifications. Probably some tools to know what earth is more fertile than others. Need more informations about this.
    -Use simply rock: It's already there, processed as "gravel", it just being use by farm type 2 - 3. The fertility process is done by the farm system itself. Rock now can be used rather than throw into space. It is the actual idea used for this thread.
    -Use no rock: Then it become hydroponic farm. Use only water.
    -Use rock but use a fertilizer: The use of a fertilizer would require an explanation. How many blocs, how many energy it use, how to place it, why not directly include it on the farm plot itself? Need to have module slot under the farm type 2? Does it mean we have to consider fertile ground and no fertile ground? Does it imply the coding massive work of fertility of the grounds?


    4- Some mentions optionals effects on the character for not answering the food need. I would advise to make it as simple as possible but if Keen read this thread, they will still have the last word for this. Personally I think it is a good idea rather than immediately kill the player, Food takes time to grow and process, from what ever reason, some bad stuff can happen and player can run short of time. So having penalties effects before dying is more than fair, totally okay with this. I just expect, that it start after 0%

    As quoted Einharjar:

    -Blurred Vision
    -Tunneled Vision (black out the edges of screen, narrowing FOV)
    -Reduced physical run and walk speeds
    -Reduced inventory carry weight by 50%

    Then it should be advise as well to provide bonus for having multiples crops and making more refined foods. Personally, It's Space Engineers, not The witcher. (Where potions made of difference ingredients give you special buffs. As much as I love this series, in my personal opinion it is not suited for SE.) So something simple and reasonable as:

    As quoted Einharjar:
    -Reducing breathing consumption (Equivalent of tea or other natural product that calm you down and so)
    -Longer lasting consumable (simply, a food that prevents hunger for even longer than normal)
    -Provides health regenerates / Increases health regeneration rate (remember, we can shut HP regen off in options, so we have to have the food provide BOTH assets of improvement)

    5- Someone mention food lapsing. I would say, make it optional, because it open a new stage of difficulty. I find this idea brilliants as hell! Giving the choice to the player how he want to conserve his food. A small settlement would probably not need any "fridge" since they will tend to consume everything and the rest stock in a container would not have the time to perish.

    But in bigger settlements, where the player has bigger distance to fly off, bigger production, the waste of food would be more relevant of bad managements. (I produce more than I consume! And so wasting my water and energy). It would also says that some foods are more made for long distance and less perishable than other. Like in a outpost, you'll tend to put cereals energy bar and military kind of foods because they do not require much care. Their buff/'taste' are not terrible, but they feed you enough. It would also give that "feeling" that you are better fed back at home than far away from it. (And so giving little Con/pro to food type would make even more sense)

    So, if someone in the other hand wish to make huge expeditions, a player would need to gather these resources before departing and so using a fridge (Ask extra components and extra energy use) to be able to do that. It is also an extra bloc to protect on your ship/base and manage more energy use. And so, having some top notch food made from your main base and back to your outpost (that costed you extra energy and made your ship more expensive) would have a real sense of 'expensive food' for special occasion. I'm thinking of those that give regen life mostly.


    The Con side is the item time lapsing info. I have not solution to this. How it look in the inventory? Does it stack? How? When? How hard it is to code this? How hard this may be for SE to keep tracking of each items time lapsing?

    6- For the aliens wild life, some are passive, some gets aggressive if you approach them. Simply as that. SE would not need to keep track on them, they would spawn and de-spawn based on the difference biomes. Possibly using a the same checker that change trees in those biomes. The only time it would keep track would maybe if the beast took damage. But if not seen from distance range for a certain amount of time, it will de-spawn.

    Agressive: Rockkor, Cave Crawler, Scratcher and crab

    7- Someone mention that they wanted to do a more customizable type of farms where they can deal all the things by themselves. It is a good idea but with the limitation of the SE's engine, one huge blog take already massive among of space and a having a bloc doing multiple thing is space saving. If you have an idea for fully customizable farm, with solar lights, watering system and all, feel free to explain it all and as much clear as possible so we can vision that. So far, i came only with this idea with 3 different type of farms offering different type of Con/pro.

    And to finish, here a picture of a space station with a farms on a rings, taking the sunlight. Ref: Elite Dangerous
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2016
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  7. Dicarus Apprentice Engineer

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    136
    Death should only be the last tier of starvation, a human can go REALLY long time without food and this should be reflected in gameplay, but there should be a toggle like oxygen/ice on world generation, not everyone wants to play around with farms and food and I understand that, but the mechanic has merit. Agricultural engineering is a thing, after all.
     
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  8. Spets Master Engineer

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    3,214
    I think something similar happened when they implemented oxygen, not sure because in that time I didn't read the forums that much, but I saw some complains and rejections, even when they said you can turn them off. But now, everybody uses Oxygen... and dogs... and spiders... maybe not the ridiculous accurate sniping asteroid rain from Vasili's planet
     
  9. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

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    3,368
    It's all here.

    A lot of veteran players complained bitterly that oxygen was going to ruin the game. Before oxygen many players dispensed with doors (because they were hard to get through) and players put whatever block wherever it looked good and life was good. Then came oxygen and the requirement that ships be airtight and that it had to be distributed via conveyors. Not to mention the three new blocks (oxy generator, pressurizer and tank) that they needed to find room for. The Outrage! Pitchforks and torches in hand, players lamented that they would have to redesign their ships. Why would you do that to us, Keen? WHY?.

    Of course, they all ignored the fact that there was a toggle.

    Oh, the humanity!

    Nowadays you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that plays with oxygen off. In fact, most players accept the challenge of airtight ships with well-managed oxygen systems. New players probably wonder why someone would want to turn it off.

    The game matures, the players mature, life goes on. Some day new players will wonder what all the fuss was about food and hunger.
     
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  10. viertar Trainee Engineer

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    wanna play minecraft survival, go ahead. We build space structures here.
     
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  11. Merandix Junior Engineer

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    Yes, I want to play minecraft survival. Because I like the survival mode as much as the creative mode. Same goes for Space Engineers. I don't think that's really an argument.

    I for one wouldn't mind a more immersive and challenging space survival. I mean, food is pretty much the biggest limitation to long-range human exploration missions. It's the ULTIMATE engineering challenge in spacefaring. Our best answer thusfar? Take it along with you. Well, I'd like a heavily engineered solution, preferably a modular one that requires actually engineering a setup that can have variable levels of efficiency based on HOW you build it.

    Another death-meter? Another thing to plan. Another thing to take into account. Once they get conveyors and the conveyor network optimised; this is pretty high up my list.

    Also, because this has to be said: JassBefrold, Your concept-art is awesome. Please do more illustrated suggestion topics just because they're a joy to read an look at :)
     
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  12. Dicarus Apprentice Engineer

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    Space farms are completely valid space structures.
     
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  13. viertar Trainee Engineer

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    Thats why we have jump drives - so its fast and we dont have to bother. And we have cryopods - so we dont even have to breathe much.

    Id rather its a game about collecting resources to build, not collecting resources to not die. If you wanna not die to win, you can win by not playing. You cannot build without playing, though.

    Space farm simulator is a bad idea of tedious work that derails you from building cool spaceships.
     
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  14. 666Savior Apprentice Engineer

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    196
    I think in regards to the comment of long range exploration, i think viertar was referring to real life

    As for the comment about space farm simulator and such, one of the game modes is clearly labelled survival. And besides, the way that food will hopefully be implemented will not make it as tedious. Sure there will be work, but hopefully the same amount of work as it takes to collect and refine resources. And along with that is the time before eating. One of the posts previous outlined a decent timeline for having to eat, that ended up having it where you would have to eat about once every 2.5 hours real time to prevent debuffs, and can go without food for ~39 hours real time before dying. Compared to other games (like DayZ), that's a really long time. During most gaming sessions you would have to eat once, maybe twice, unless you don't care about the debuffs.

    And building farms doesn't derail you from working on cool spaceships. It essentially broadens the range of spaceships you can make. If farms are implemented you can bet money I'll sit there for a few days and build a support ship full of nothing but farms or build a farm station. And as @Dicarus said, space farms are completely valid space structures. You send people to space, you better have a way to sustain them long term.

    Also, currently, you do collect resources to not die. Its called ICE (for oxygen). Though if food is implemented it will probably be a little more complex than mine ice, get food. (i would hope)
     
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  15. gothosan Junior Engineer

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    723
    Cryopods are for multiplayer to save your character, aka save the items you hold and your hotbar configuration, the fact it regen oxygen, hydrogen and energy has nothing to do with their planned rule (atleast for MP)
     
  16. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

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    You do understand that we are talking about an option that you can turn off if you don't like it?

    We're not discussing what kind of game this is. We are discussing an option many players would like to see added. We're not going to defend the idea. We're just going to discuss it. We understand that we all don't play the game the exact same way. We believe that's a good thing.

    If you would prefer that we all only play the game your way, I suggest you create your own game.
     
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  17. sioxernic Senior Engineer

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    2,535
    Star, we could say the same thing about ANY! suggestion (You do understand that wer are talking about an option, part). Just because it can be added as an option should not be an argument for why people can't argue against the idea since they can always just choose not to play with that. Sorry to say so buddy but your own argumentation is rather horrible here. "If you would prefer that we all only play the game your way, I suggest you create your own game." and again, this one applies EQUALLY to your stance on this. 100% equally.
     
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  18. viertar Trainee Engineer

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    And how would you label it to denote its about working for resources to build out of, instead of just placing ready blocks? "Mining"?
    It clearly doesnt have space sims framing simulator built in, so its clearly not about making farms and growing crops to sustain a character.

    "what is lore?" for 10000.

    "Many".
    and Im gonna attack the idea. Not every game has to have food management and managing food is tedious and boring.
     
  19. 666Savior Apprentice Engineer

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    I would call it "Base Building." Many other games have this that are survival games. Subnautica, for example has a normal survival, where you need food, water,and air to not die and materials to make bases, A base building mode, with food and water disabled so you can make bases as you please, and then a hardcore mode where you get one life only. The current iteration of SE 'survival' mainly entails getting a large amount of ice so your oxygen generator can run and you wont die from lack of oxygen. And even a small container full of ice can keep you going for a very long time. After that its just a game of getting materials and building bigger stuff.

    And, yes, i'm aware my own argument can be turned against me in the sense that food will be another 'get a large amount of this stuff stockpiled and then don't worry about it for a few days until it needs restocking' part of the game. Hopefully, if they implement it, it will be a bit more immersive than that.

    And just cause it doesn't have a feature or gameplay element built in yet does not mean that it shouldn't have it ever. We are talking about adding a feature that will possibly add more immersion once the game gets out of early access and is labelled as a 'finished' game. Its an alpha game, they are still working on adding and fixing things. By your same argument they never should have added planets.
     
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  20. JassBefrold Trainee Engineer

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    Thanks to those that commented and big thanks to @Merandix!

    Alright, we got it, viertar doesn't like the idea. He doesn't like his burger that way for his own personal reason. As long he doesn't go run after people to stop them eating their burger with a difference sauces than what he likes, I'm perfectly fine. I have to disagree with most of his statements.
    If doing that food gameplay is "farming" simulator, then I would like to call Space Engineers: Mining simulator. In which case does it make it more acceptable?? Oh right, because personal taste. I've just read on some steam comment people says how mining is boring. And it is why there is options to begin with, to NOT force people into one and only gameplay, but let everyone, that have different interests, enjoy their things as they want. I don't mind people giving their opinion as long there is argument and as long that person has listened all that been said before. There is no point trying to put a definition of what is "acceptable" or not in SE, since it's clear, that not everyone agree on this and probably will never at 100%. So, options. Later, Keen make the last word.

    Guys, let's stays focus. If needed more details about what is "acceptable and not boring" in SE then viertar should create a thread about it and explain his concern there. This thread is based on adding an optional features of food gameplay for those that are interested. For those that don't like, good, leave a comment. For the other, let us know and possibly share some more ideas to help that concept being better. Simply. :]
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2016
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  21. tharkus Junior Engineer

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    712
    Very nice ideas , and also you did a great work with the post.
    i would really like if food is implemented in the game with all the mechanics.

    +1
     
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  22. LATENT PRECISE-IMPOSER Apprentice Engineer

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    I really want to see this coincide with NPC quests. In truth I can really get away with a small farm in a ship to get around. Even with your suggestion about turning extra food into biofuel, I can get away with batteries and solar panels with a better effect.

    As I said before having the ability to add NPCs and Quests will lead to a better depth of game and give reasoning behind farm-ships. Otherwise this food-stuff just becomes another check box to tick off the "Engineering list" and players just move along.
     
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  23. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

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    So Viertar wrote this:
    Then I responded by saying we're talking about an option, then I get this:
    See, when Vietar says he'd rather it be a game about collecting resources he effectively went off-topic. We are not discussing what kind of game SE is. We are discussing an optional feature which would not interfere with his preferred approach to the game. It would be different if we were attempting to impose food on everyone. We're not.

    If you don't like the option you need to give a more appropriate reason other than you won't tolerate it, because you won't have to. For instance, if you think it would harm the integrity of the game in general or would be detrimental to the franchise or more difficult to implement than it's potential worth. That's fine, as long as it's backed up with reasons.
    Um, ok. You need to give good reasons.
     
  24. sioxernic Senior Engineer

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    @Stardriver907
    "Id rather its a game about collecting resources to build, not collecting resources to not die. If you wanna not die to win, you can win by not playing. You cannot build without playing, though.

    Space farm simulator is a bad idea of tedious work that derails you from building cool spaceships.´"

    Take a look at his post though, even if it is not the best reasons he does give his opinion. You can't force everyone to give an amazing reasoned point for every thing.
     
  25. SenorZorros Master Engineer

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    my apologies for leaving this thread. I would like to point two things out. first of the survival mode is called survival mode because minecraft calls it survival mode. originally it would be called manual mode but everyone called it survival mode anyway so the devs gave in. it was never supposed to be a survival game.

    also, the fact that mining is boring too doesn't mean that other boring features can be permitted. it means mining should be improved.

    the main problem with this suggestion is that it costs a lot to implement and adds a little. all those models need to be made but all we end up with are some ploppables and another bar we need to keep above 0 to not die. I do not oppose a food system but the suggestion, how beutiful it is, is mechanically lazy. I would love to see a more in dept system with meaningful choice.
     
  26. Hakon102 Apprentice Engineer

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    300
    Hi, Only some Informations:

    Our programmers are working on finishing the “realistic mode” (this is what some of you call “survival”) – real inventory size, death, re-spawn and manual building. - Mareks Blog 1/27/14 :p

    This is why i suggest a better and realistic Hunger System :) , i think the most of us don`t want a simple, boring and annoying "Death Bar" (please read my first post here) ;) .
    and I agree with "how beutiful it is, is mechanically lazy. I would love to see a more in dept system with meaningful choice"

    I hope they add a nice Hunger & Food/Farm system, how Oxygen. It will bring much more deep, realism and fun to the game for me :)

    Greetings
     
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  27. JassBefrold Trainee Engineer

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    Please read all the arguments that been said before. Again it's easy to point out problem but harder to give solution. (I've said that already) So please @SenorZorros if you have a complain at least work on it with us, everyone saw how simplistic this system was already as you aren't the only one mentioning it. I've made it just as simple as mining and gathering components is. YET, it make me ask why farming is LAZY and gathering component isn't? Since it's exactly the same as I've explained. Made to keep harmony between each of these gameplay. Would not make sense to have hard farming system and a simple mining stystem, is it? Have you guys though about that before? viertar said the same thing: Farming simulator. So why it is not Mining simulator then? Personal taste probably. I mean goodness, even someone said it was too complicate.

    I've said it already multiples times. Some people offered solutions to help and make it progress, so take a look of what they said please.

    -Mining as boring is not a fact, it is an opinion. A fact is a 100% verified info, possibly scientific. Such a 2+2=4. To me, mining is not boring, it's a necessity, I play the game because i have to answer this necessity. Some people find it boring, fine, they got the options to remove it. Creative mode. Or they could create a suggestions post and give an idea to make it interesting? I mean I've again mentioned this in my last post right? Personal taste and all? Some find it boring, some don't. So can we just simply avoid that subject the next time? If you are against the idea of adding food (which mean a death bar no matter what people say) just says it, give the reason if you want or not and let's move on. But if you give a reason, at least try to give a solution. Otherwise it doesn't help anyone.

    -Adding a bar for some is an interesting stuff, again it is opinion approaches. As some said: Mining is boring, Farming is boring. Some other said: Mining is cool, farming is cool. Some says: Mining is boring but farming is cool! Some says: Mining is logic and better but farming is lazy and tedious! You see where i'm going now?

    -What Space Engineers is suppose to be or not is better to be asked directly to the Devs of the game. Only them can answer what are they planing for it. I'm just here to give suggestions and ideas, it cannot hurt but it seems few people believes that it can. Despite the fact that only Keen itself will decide the end of that. The only better things we can do is focus on the subject and if we are interested in, give ideas. If we have a complain but like the idea, at least give a solution. Cause a simple complain doesn't help nor give a solution to how fix it. Since the reason of your complain is personal (because personal taste) you are the only one (or people that share your point of view) that are able to at least give a solution to this and maybe come up with an idea that please other. So please, if you want it to be on more depth, tell us how.

    @sioxernic & @Stardriver907 : Beware of the subject please. The guy you talking about said he don't wanted this and said his opinion, it should be enough to disengage and focus on the subject. :]

    As I've said before. Try to avoid opinion battle, people. "My taste is better than yours or more legitimate" doesn't help. Just give reason and arguments to build that concept with your own personal taste. Those against it, will tell how much or less people are not interested in. The other will help to build it and level how much people are interested in. Keen will (as again I've said it multiple time) have the last word for this. Simply, battling opinion give just nothing, except for those that are open minded enough to listen and share ideas, then its called debate. Battling opinion with people that are strictly against nor willing to do it for the sake of creating on this idea will lead to nothing.

    Please, focus on creating people. Thanks you very much. :]
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2016
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  28. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

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    3,368
    I couldn't agree more. Because SE is a sandbox game still in development, there are a lot of people that want to see things here. We post them here to see what happens. I will shoot down any idea that is clearly not within the scope and spirit of the game, e.g. tech like transporters and energy weapons that will not be around in 2077. I will support any idea that will help me play SE the way the developers intended, e.g. living and working in space using current existing technology extrapolated 60 years.

    I never suggested oxygen, but I'm glad it's in the game. I never suggested we mine for resources, but I'm glad that's the way it's done. My character needs to breath. I have to mine ice and put it through a special machine in order to have air. Whether or not that is boring or tedious depends on your own attitude, but if that is so for you there is the ability to turn the mechanic off. Boring and tedious are not reasons. If we are going to discuss the merits of this idea there have to be good reasons to do it or not do it. Good reasons, not personal feelings.

    I don't see the eating mechanic as being any different from the breathing mechanic. I don't believe there is an expectation here that everyone will have to be farmers in order to eat. Somewhere in this idea is a minimal setup that will keep a player adequately fed with a reasonable amount of resources and building. The "farm" thing is there for those who would like to pursue that avenue. No one "has to." Again, what makes this tedious in other games is the frequency of the eating in order to stay alive, which is always unrealistic and not in line with the way things play out in SE.

    I'd be happy with just having to eat something every two weeks, but I like the idea of hunger gradually causing problems.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  29. sioxernic Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,535
    Well I can tell you guys exactly the reasons why I am against this kind of thing.
    Playing Minecraft is where I especially dislike farming. As soon as it becomes a system that is required for survival it becomes one of two things:
    1) A mindless chore you just have to do that adds no further progress to the game beyond not dying.
    2) So easy to do that it is just adding a couple of extra blocks and becomes a redundant feature.

    What I mean by not progressing further and the big difference between mining and farming is that mining you do with a clear goal of progressing further while farming is quite literally something you do to avoid dying once in a while. It adds no progression for you and as soon as the infrastructure is up the amount of gameplay it would add is minimal. If anything it is more of a "You started playing the game and therefor you need to do all of this stuff before you can build fancy ships you bought the game for". And now I would like to point towards the argument of: "But it should just be a tickbox like oxygen" and I would like to say that is not the answer to every single idea here on the forum. Food and farming does not really add much in the end while it detracts from the main gameplay focus of building ships.
    You are okay to disagree but as soon as a decent farming mod has been added I am probably going to try it out and most likely enjoy it, but in my opinion farming does not have a place in SE.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  30. SenorZorros Master Engineer

    Messages:
    7,063
    I hate my typing skills... also, okay, I might have confused manual with realistic. it's been two years. my point still stands! *grumblegrumble*
    1. it's not my task to think up this suggestion. as I said before I'm not opposed to farming but I think this system is too simple and too much a chore. in my opinion both farming and gathering components is lazy a the moment which means that the mining system needs revamping and this idea needs reworking. however, in the end they are unrelated so this argument is a fallacy.

    2. we can discuss the merits of the mining system at length if you want to but I have a feeling you don't feel like doing tht. you were the one who brought the "mining is boring" up though.

    3. I believe that adding a bar has been discussed before so yeah, I'm not going to write down why it is a bad idea again.

    4. I don't need a farming system and I don't have a good solution either. it's not my responsibility to come up with one though. do you also want me to think up a good way to implement lasers and shields?
     
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