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Concept Art & Game design : Farms & Food. +Wild life.

Discussion in 'Suggestions and Feedback' started by JassBefrold, May 21, 2016.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. JassBefrold Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    25
    @sioxernic @SenorZorros People and I have pointed what you been mentioning on the first page. Please, make sure you have read it and yes has lot been said already. In the other hand, now we know you are against it (or not) and why. There is so no reason for both of us to battling opinions about what is acceptable or not in SE since we do not share this vision and since it is not the subject. Thanks for letting know your opinion, now we do know.

    Now we can disengage. @Stardriver907 I totally agree with you on this. To my eyes, mining, canons, cargo, gathering, energy are just here for giving purpose to things and make us build. Why bothering mining when you could simply build on creative? For the same reason some people accept oxygen or even accept the slow process of finding resources, ore to ingot to components. Food is just like mining + oxygen compil together. Now I would have purpose to make a proper farm space station. A proper reason to go to planet and make special water tank ships for planet to space. Even prepare convoys and be even more precise about managing (weight of ships, energy and resources consumptions) Some came with great ideas as food buffs and someone came with food lapsing, which make things a whole lot harder. I wonder if there is any other ways without necessary break the gameplay of mining that would feel too simple (maybe), if pushed that deep.

    So there we go, We can now progress on this thread for those that which to see food being implemented as also a way to give ideas and possibilities on this thread and make it better or more adapted.
    Those against or do not agree can let it know but let's avoid spending time battling about taste, opinion or any personal reason, between those that want it and those that don't want it, please.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2016
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    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  2. LATENT PRECISE-IMPOSER Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    194
    as I think harder about this mechanic and how sort of poorly it is handled in Medieval Engineers, I think a good way to handle food in SE is to act as a stat booster, literally starving to death is a poor way to have players play a game when all they need to do is put everything inside a cargo container and hit BACKSPACE to pop out of the nearest medbay in a fresh suit.

    Turn off "Food Mechanics" in the advanced menu?

    Normal everything

    ---

    Turn on "Food Mechanics" in the advanced menu and decided not to go with food for a while?

    Run Speed slows, you are limited to your max carry capacity, you take damage like a paper napkin, your building speed suffers, and don't expect to heal your wounds fast unless a med bay is nearby.

    ---
    Turn on "Food Mechanics" in the advanced menu and decided to pack a lunch?

    Faster Run speed, ability to overload your inventory with little to no adverse effects, you take damage like TWO paper napkins, your building speed increases, and you get a nice Heal over time just in case you slammed into a wall a bit too hard.

    as long as you keep eating, you keep the bonuses, maybe if you craft better foodstuffs (or get them via
    [​IMG]

    you can get the bonuses to stack, so when you know you're going to be in a world of hurt, you can get hurt just a little bit less.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. SenorZorros Master Engineer

    Messages:
    7,063
    @JassBefrold, you are not the boss of me and you cannot kick people out of threads. as long as I Believe I have valid complaints I will post.trying to shoo someone out is a sing that you are afraid.

    @LATENT PRECISE-IMPOSER,
    I am happy you are trying to improve the suggestion. nevertheless, I do wonder if this wouldn't result in the boosted stat wouldn't become the new normal and the food mechanic wouldn't become press x not to suck.

    my main gripe is that the suggested way of obtaining food does not have enough options. it's just a couple of ploppables. there are no choices and neither is there any real reason to make it look nice. I hope someone will be able to find a solution but I don't know it.

    also, please understand that my criticism is not meant to bash the idea but to further it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  4. JassBefrold Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    25
    @SenorZorros Woah, chill man, there is strictly nothing personal. I don't know what you interpreted but I never did invited/order you to leave the thread to anybody, but invited to re-center the subject. If you got a problem with me, please, send me a PM. If not...

    Back to the subject, what you said is exactly what you been mentioning on the first page, rightfully so, you did widely explain why. People been answering about this and we all seems to came to the conclusion and close approach about those subjects "What is acceptable in SE or not?" or even "What is a grind and not a grind?" Which was actually useful and interesting to approach so we could avoid spinning around. We came to the fact that those 2 subjects were personal opinions and taste, as much arguments were varied and multiple, as much as people interests. Not everyone see the same thing as a grind and not everyone see the same things as acceptable. So what do we have left at the end when battling opinion about those two subjects? Giving ideas. Debating about those ideas. Avoid taste battle (essentially those that will never change their mind aka What is acceptable or not, what is grind or not). Exactly what I'm inviting for.

    So, I'm going to repeat as a reminder and resume what been said to simplify:
    -No matter what we do, the 'basic' food system is Mining + Oxygen compiled together and will always be a death meter to fill. Adding a new death meter: Some are okay with, some don't.
    -It's does the same purpose as Oxygen but to make it work is equivalent to go mining and process ore. (Ice and rocks) (Same system as uranium) At this point, again some are okay with, some are not.
    -And then, Food gameplay? Some are okay, some are not.
    -Mining and farming work the same way, you mine and wait for process. Some are okay with, some art not.

    I will not jump on explaining why this concept is interesting or not, people can make their own idea and share that point of view, so some came with great ideas in my opinion(I may have forgot some, sorry):
    -Food hunger debuff before death
    -Food buff
    -Food lapsing
    -Food crafting
    -Food rate hunger
    -Food missions and rewards system


    If I'm not wrong someone mentioned a bit aside of food itself:
    -NPC?
    -More customizable farms?
    -Fertility soil? Maybe with tools for it

    In common, some people asked to rework the ice. That it should turn into water. With possibilities to have water tanks for turning it later into 3 purposes: Hydrogen, Oxygen, water crops.

    At the end I've added:
    -Biofuel from waste: Something less powerful than hydrogen and Ion but in large quantities. Maybe by using hydrogen thrusters with green lights.

    There was also another interesting subjects that was an unrelated but yet woke another kind of problem with SE. Some people had actually a problem with this gameplay because of the lack of challenge in the world to defy those death meters, not the death meter itself.
    And there we go. You should give a check on the second page top and first page, @LATENT PRECISE-IMPOSER , it seems @Hakon102 and @Levits has a thing for food boost, curious to know what you think about this, if it is too complicate or that it should be simpler. Personally feel it give reason for different type of foods.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2016
    • Like Like x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  5. Harrekin Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,077
    Why did you have to say quests?

    I was about to hit agree till you said the dirty Q word...

    :(
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  6. Levits Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,122
    So, lets start with the way the game plays now.

    Start the game: <easy enough. You begin with a refinery and the assembler in your drop-pod or yellow starter ship.

    You have oxygen already available, you have enough components to build solar panels and batteries. Ok, so power and air are all good. You just have to build the solar panels and batteries. Now the first group of options comes in two forms. Do you build onto your current starter ship, or begin building a separate base/station? Or, like myself, do you begin with building small-ship utility vehicles such as construction, mining, grinding/assembling craft?<doesn't really matter that one because eventually you'll have to use the large-grid refinery and assembler.

    At this time, (with the way the game is currently) you can do any of the above at your leisure. There is absolutely no concern for time (aside from solar panels and battery charging cycles). You can spend a few minutes up to a few days or whatever, mining until you are able to build your dream-ship or station with no concern of running out of any resources. Heck, you could even live your entire life inside of the small-ship cockpit since it provides air and power. There is little to no concern at all, except for the possibility of players/pirates or cyber dogs/spiders raiding you.

    At this time, Build your ship any way you want with extra space for crew quarters, a mess hall, a recreational area, etc., and pressurized,... or don't. <because it's a personal preference at this time and not a requirement in any functional form or fashion for any of these features aboard your ship. You don't need anything but a solar panel a seat and an automated oxygen generator; survival complete. It's far too laid back even if the game was focused solely on mining and building (which is what "creative" does for you <you're just cutting out the time it takes to gather the resources.), there are almost no other challenges that the game itself provides.

    Now, add the food and farming block features to it.

    Now, you have a practical application for a ships kitchen. You now have a reason to pressurize your ships interior and keep it that way. You now have a need to quickly setup a facility/system to feed yourself and your potential crewmembers before you start to feel the effects of starvation. You now have a reason to be concerned with time-management. Food takes longer to grow than it does to eat. Even with a fully automated machine doing so, you do not want to simply rely on that one device because if something were to happen, you would not have the reserves to keep yourself alive.

    So, consider another aspect (one being NPC crewmembers, or simply other players). Your ship/station/faction has to support the number of people you intended to let in. This means that you need farms, perhaps not as massive as in the real world, but certain enough to cover each individuals nutritional needs. This means that you have a legitimate reason to build a farming hub, and that provides additional options and decision-making challenges on how to go about this small, yet pivotal, aspect of the game. Do you take the energy and production hit and build the Tier 1 food production block deep within your well protected base or ship? Or do you build the larger, more aesthetically pleasing, large farm blocks in a glass-encased room to speed up food production? Regardless, you now have another reason to harvest more ice; and not just to keep your oxygen generator topped off. <Like that was or ever would be a problem.

    And this isn't even including the other potential features that could be added later that would also benefit and/or utilize this feature.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  7. Hakon102 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    300
    I Agree with Levits. I want to add something to "Play with food and Farming Blocks"

    - If you start on a Earthlike Planet (or maybe alien Planet) you should harvest/get food from the Plants & Wildlife of the Planet. This brings a other benefit to start on a Planet against the downside of Mining on Planets. An other aspect is that many people like to hunt.
    - You have a reason to visit Planets. to get Seeds and to refill your food reserves.
     
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  8. Lord Grey Apprentice Engineer

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    413
    • Informative Informative x 2
  9. viertar Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    36
    Just cause it doesnt, doest mean it should ever have.

    You have to start with why it should be in the game, not how good its gonna be. And it doesnt have to be in the game.

    Its like you gather all the hay and put it in the furnace to run space rockets on steam. Everyone will stick to nuclear power, cause its better.

    I effectively went on-topic about why implementing such feature is bullshit, cause its a part of an argument.

    If you like the option you need to give a more appropriate reason other than you want it.

    In the other hand, now we know you are for it (or not) and why. There is so no reason for both of us to battling opinions about what is acceptable or not in SE since we do not share this vision and since it is not the subject. Thanks for letting know your opinion, now we do know.
    You can leave the thread too.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  10. SenorZorros Master Engineer

    Messages:
    7,063
    I agree with most of your point but I would like to point out that biomass would be a nice pre-nuclear power source. on that note in my opinion nuclear power should be made a bit harder to attain.
    still, I'd like the mechanic for this to be a bit more interesting that plop down a block and wait long enough.
     
  11. Lord Grey Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    413
    While Bio-Disel sound interesting, it will presuppose additional blocks. And combustion engines would only work on Planets with oxygene. Otherwise you need to supply oxygene, and then we are back at the already existing Hydrogen/Oxygene cyclus.
    It may be worth a thought or two if Plastic as a building material instead of iron may be an idea, so that you can produce plastic out of biomatter and use it for interior walls or Windows (Instead of Si). But the topic is food system. So I stay with my opinion,
    Two resources, Carbohydrates and Proteins. Mix it for different foods and consume it in a pressurized area or use additional Iron to get it into a space suit compatible consumable form.
     
  12. Harrekin Master Engineer

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    3,077
    Agreed on the plastics, an interesting side effect to the addition of food.
     
  13. viertar Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    36
    Why would we need a pre-nuclear power for space age? Why do you want to have the entire minecraft before you can play space engineers? Go forwards. And solar.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  14. SenorZorros Master Engineer

    Messages:
    7,063
    at the moment noclear reactors are in my opinion too easy to build. I'd like them to be made more expensive and requiring a higher amount of infrastructure with the void they create filled with new sources.
     
  15. Sapioit Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    188
    What about having a mode to only craft seeds, which would take about 10%-20% more time, for 50% more seeds, and no food.
    Also, maybe 0.01% change of mutation, resulting in a new type of crop seed/product (fruit/vegetable/plant).
     
  16. 333546323 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    213
    ok ok im late but wow WOW serious we need this this adds so much more to the realistic and spacey feel to it also having a base with a farm on it would be amazing it actually gives you a reason to stay there... you need to be hired idk what marek is doing with the food thing (think he said no) but it seems like the game lacks alot without it i guess :/
     
  17. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,368
    To find out what happened, read this thread.
     
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