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Conrad's Large Ship Block Feedback.

Discussion in 'General' started by Conradian, Dec 9, 2016.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Conradian Moderator

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    2,596
    Brace yourselves, this is gonna be a bumpy ride.

    Lemme prefix this post by saying that for the most part I like the new blocks. I saw a lot of WIP stuff whilst at Keen two months or so ago and the blocks look a lot better than they did there. So yay.

    Ok let's get into it:


    So to close. Most blocks look great. However there are tweaks and changes needed to get them to a real finished point.

    I'm glad Keen opted to drop the metallic scratches everything had on the edges of blocks. Rather than make everything look real it made everything look like individual pieces which is against the point of a block-building game.

    The trick is to give the players a set of blocks that when put together make a ship, not a collection of blocks. Some of these toe that line but it's a lot better than what I saw before.

    The armour is the main issue that counters this at the moment. It feels like it's been left behind as the artists worked on everything else, and it therefore needs the most work at present.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2016
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  2. Xocliw Public Relations Staff

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    2,615
    This is an impressive feedback thread indeed... I will be watching it VERY closely... ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
     
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  3. C4packed Trainee Engineer

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    3
    I agree with EVERYTHING, minus the Oxygen Tank lettering...(I quite like it, but the model needs updated anyways.)
     
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  4. anders w Apprentice Engineer

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    178
    absolutely agree on the blastdoor blocks... they just hurt to look at. :/ most other blocks i really like. :)
     
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  5. Crusader Apprentice Engineer

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    Someone doesn't like letters and labels on things huh?
     
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  6. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,862
    I do not agree that the cryos should have see-through glass - because that makes it painfully clear that they're always empty...
     
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  7. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    4,964
    I dislike the ion thruster models. They don't look like thrusters. The ends do not taper, they are just cylindrical. The old models looked better... actually MUCH better. That one goes in the vertical file. I also prefer the camo on the heavy armor. It breaks up the monochrome look. I'd love there to be two or more textures available for armor with a basic default texture so that people running potatoes can force everything into one texture but people running higher end machines can use multiple textures. Being able to use different textures means more options for the looks of the armor of a ship.

    Everything else I can live with or doesn't bother me. But the ion thrusters are glaringly bad.
     
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  8. JoeTheDestroyer Junior Engineer

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    573
    I agree that the combo conveyor/upgrade ports have always (and still) look funny. However, if we have to choose one, I think that 99% of the time I'd rather have the upgrade ports rather than the conveyor ports on the sides.
     
  9. Conradian Moderator

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    2,596
    Text on blocks are a pain to me for three reasons:
    1. Text makes it hard to disguise a block, meaning they look out of place if used for aesthetic reasons as well as functional reasons. E.g. Airtight Hangar Door Block has "Hangar Door" written on it which looks out of place when used as blast shield like in the campaign.
    2. Text itself has a specific orientation, which thus implies correct orientation of the block and looks odd when used otherwise. E.g. Airtight Hangar Door Block is implied to be used when attached to the ceiling, as the text is upside down when attached to the floor.
    3. Text implies that the function of the block is not obvious from its design. To me that's a symptom of poor design. E.g. The Small Cargo Container is not visually distinct from the Conveyor Block. Text is necessary.
    Text is fine if we had blocks that were meant to be functionally similar and thus visually similar. For example if we had two 1x1x2 tanks for hydrogen and oxygen it would make sense to give them a similar look and put text on each.

    The problem is that I think there's not much pressure to use a Cryo Chamber at all. They should be changed functionally perhaps to make them more useful.
    --- Automerge ---
    The thing is Ion Thrusters now look like Ion Thrusters:
    [​IMG]
    Ion Thrusters don't look like conventional jet or rocket engines which taper in or out in more cases.

    As for the armour texture I would like it if we could apply patterns via paint rather than being locked to camo for one. Painting your armour types different colours does a wonderful job of breaking up the monochrome look now. However light to heavy armour doesn't transition any better now than it did before.
     
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  10. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,862
    @Conradian Pressure? I need no pressure to use them, just my imagination... but that comment has absolutely nothing to do with whether the glass is transparent or not :)
     
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  11. PsicoPato Senior Engineer

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    1,097
    Agree with everything you said Conrad. I still think that the glass should have some kind of BeeHive Texture, but this is only me. =P
     
  12. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    And gravity generators look like gravity generators, right? Sorry... the ion thrusters are ugly as hell.
     
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  13. Hiramas Apprentice Engineer

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    121
    I agree with most of these points, good work.

    I'd like to add that the passage block could use A LOT more details, it still looks very plastic-y.
    In addition to the suggestions from Conrad:
    Give the sides of the passage a look similar to the ramp. The ramp model is really nice and having that as a 1x1 flat block would increase the usefulness of the passage tenfold.

    Disagree on the Spotlight in that the base is not flush with the block it is attached to.

    I also want to emphasise my agreement on the Catwalks and the cover walls. Having them consistent would really make things better here.

    I disagree on the antenna in that I like the design, though it doesn't justify the 1x2 base, imo.
     
  14. Conradian Moderator

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    2,596
    I actually wouldn't mind a hex texture tbh if done right.

    Reductio ad absurdum. There is no such thing as a gravity generator. However there is such a thing as an ion thruster and our ion thruster now looks like one.

    Your passage block ideas actually make a lot of sense. I really like that.

    Spotlight, being a 1x1x1 block, has never sat flush with the block behind it. However as shown in the picture it does sit flush between two half ramps from the 2x1 slope set.

    And yeah, cover wall/catwalk consistency is a thing I never really care much about until I saw how close we are.
     
  15. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    4,964
    And what does an ion thruster look like on a space ship rather than outside of a test lab? It can't have a protective cowling?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 9, 2016
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  16. REDSHEILD Junior Engineer

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    888
    The new ion thrusters are beautiful. Perfect visual hybrid between the appearance of both grided and Hall effect thrusters, and look durable too.

    Btw, @Ronin1973 ion thrusters on satellites are basically identical to those in a lab. And ours does seem to have a pretty hefty cowling at the end of the emission nozzle.
     
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  17. Conradian Moderator

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    2,596
    Our ion thruster is a lot more developed than one in a lab. It may have protective elements. Since they don't really exist outside the lab yet we don't know and thus its open to interpretation.

    Keen has opted to go with an interpretation that gives us an ion thruster that is visually distinct from the atmospheric and hydrogen thrusters. That's a good thing.
     
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  18. REDSHEILD Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    888
    RL ion thrusters have existed for decades. First space test was SERT-1 in 1964. They're rather common on satellites now, usually used in conjunction with hypergolic thrust engines. First use outside of test platforms was in the late 90s or so.
     
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  19. Conradian Moderator

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    2,596
    Yeah my bad I was thinking of QVPTs.
     
  20. noxLP Junior Engineer

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    729
    I agree some things and other things i don't agree. Most important are:

    I don't like ion thrusters too, as i said in the other thread, they have too much internals to hide and no way to hide them because of the hitbox. So as it is right now, if you use a ion thruster you HAVE to see all that internals and a strange cilinder, you like it or not, it fits well with your ship or not. There are no other way.
    Before, all the internals were inside a box, so you could throw some armor here and there and you made the thruster follow the ship lines (or whatever shape you liked), now that's simply impossible. The internals are too much exposed, the cilinder doesn't help and honestly, i don't mind what the real ion thrusters looks like. To try to keep it real looking is usually a good thing, but not when it comes with this type of limitations.

    I doesn't agree with the text hate, and i don't see any reason to avoid text in blocks. If the block is upside down, the text is upside down... and?

    As i said in the other thread, too, I agree with the armor.

    And about the large grid small light i just don't like the rectangle on the other side, because it's larger than before and it "pierce" through thin blocks like doors and catwalks, so at the other side you can see that ugly rectangle hanging there. The light itself is nice.
     
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  21. Wonkatoad Apprentice Engineer

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    200
    As much as I love blank computer screens...
    [​IMG]

    and bloom :l
     
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  22. Gwindalmir Senior Engineer

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    1,006
    Actually the cryopods store information on whether they are occupied or not. You could have it place a player model inside if it's occupied. I actually like that idea.
     
  23. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,862
    Occupied by whom? We're very alone in single player scenarios...

    As far as I know, it does have characters in them when actually occupied - they're cockpits, after all.

    You missed my point entirely, it seems. :)
     
  24. Light_gemini Junior Engineer

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    671
    I dont like ion thusters at all. being realistic looking doesnt make it pretty to watch. Many non realistic ships looked way better with the "fantasy standar" jet look.

    I hate the landing gear too. It feels more like a mecha foot, not something you put in a ship to land on it. It almost feel to me that adding the Nike logo to it would look cute. (weird isnt it).
     
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  25. Aiadel Trainee Engineer

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    32
    I don't like much the new armor blocks either, as many others have said they look too detailed and don't mesh together very well. Also, I hate that little triangle in the heavy armor corners, every sleek design that use heavy armor looks horrible to me due to them . Finally, reduce the scratches: they are fine on heavy duty equipment( landing gears, drills , etc..), but an armor block should be as visually neutral as possible.
     
  26. Gwindalmir Senior Engineer

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    1,006
    If you snag a multiplayer world and load it in SP, they are still occupied.

    However I guess I don't use cryopods in single player....... since they aren't needed. :)

    If you want to make a scenario, Visual Scripting could potentially occupy them with models.
     
  27. Corundum Guy Apprentice Engineer

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    105
    While the new ion thrusters look realistic (in that they resemble current ones), they also stand out more and may be harder to integrate into a "slick" design.

    Now I wan't to make it very clear I'm not shitting on the work done by the visual artist when I ask: How about armor thrusters as a vanilla scroll-down-alternative? (A mod would work, too. But on a glance armor thrusters are at least as popular on the Steam Workshop as corner lights, so that seems like a candidate for vanilla.)

    - Edited for clarity -
    --- Automerge ---
    The new blocks are hit and miss for me, but I can honestly live with anything that does not take away functionality. The border on the LCD Panels seems to do that to an extent, though: One can now no longer build one seamless large screen from multiple LCD Panels (say, if you want to make a huge billboard). Maybe we could get a borderless scroll-down-alternative for that, too?
     
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  28. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    4,964

    LCDs should be borderless since there are a lot of scripts and scripters that are using multiple LCDs as one big array. With mono-spacing now available having to look at your LCDs with a bezel surrounding it kind of blows. The old model was better as it was cleaner.
     
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  29. Spets Master Engineer

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    3,214
    ok, I jsut copy paste this here

    don't like
    Armor Blocks, the black lines look like they were drawn with a crayon. Also, not a fan of the frames. Never like them, don't hurt, but if they gone, well... not going to miss them :p
    Landing Gear... literally a robot foot thing. Even that I have made some mech/robots, for a ship it seems not right.
    Spotlight... looks like an oil fueled canister lamp. I donno, a like the old one better.
    Catwalks... hmm no. I mean, first, not symmetrical, and second I prefer a more industrial look type. This one is too fancy imo.
    Blast door... agg what the heck are those slots everywhere
    Control Station, yak! a treadmill with an ugly chair (blame Rotal)
    Seat... ugly design, doesn't seem to fit with anything. again, too fancy, whatever.
    Cryo Capsule, I only see a robot head, once you see it, can't unsee it
    LCD panels, now you can't use a few together to make a big one using a script, because they added a border... ¬¬
    for the rest of the blocks I think they are great, the engines wow!
    also, I wish they add some animations on some blocks, and perhaps functional LCD on the cockpits and control station
     
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  30. Corundum Guy Apprentice Engineer

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    105
    Damn you! Now I see it, too. :)
     
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