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Could SE PvP be an E-sport?

Discussion in 'General' started by doncdxx, Mar 27, 2017.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. doncdxx Apprentice Engineer

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    413
    Of course I don't mean survival mode...

    Imagine along with me if you will...
    A new "Battle" mode.
    You join and go into a lobby.
    You pick a ship from your BP's with a point value determined by the number and types of blocks.
    Different settings would set different restrictions on point value, ship size, weapon count, etc...
    Spawn in your ship in formation with your team and the battle commences.
    Die in battle and respawn in your ship at the edge of the (presumbly small ) map again and again (until battle is over or run out of lives or whatever).

    Space, planetside, and high orbital. FFA and team deathmatches, defend/assault scenarios, capture the flag, etc...
    All would give different battles with different strategies for a more diverse skill set for winning teams and give a chance for popularity to specific skill focuses.
    Perhaps also mini survival/pvp for an 1-3 hour long game where teams each start at a premade base and have to mine and build defenses and attack ships to destroy the other team's premade base.

    Ship personalization adds a strategic element but also gives more character for viewers.
    An smart ship designer could be as popular as good pilot.
    Even easy decal support through mods for sponsors. It's not an E-sport until there's sponsors.

    With some customization to spectator mode, this could be very watchable and very fun.


    Am I crazy or does this sound plausible? What am I forgetting? How do we get the devs interested in this?
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  2. Gth Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    15
    May be, but only if PVP is made better by the addition of more weapons, and more importantly more weapon types, so that every fight doesn't just filter out into PMW slug matches, lag inducing 100v100 turret battles, or some awful mix of both.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  3. PLPM Junior Engineer

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    841
    I guess I could try imagining SE as a viable E-sports... But considering the current state, it´s not a pretty vision of it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. The Churrosaur Junior Engineer

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    744
    ahaha what- if you want to truncate 90% of the game and market a fast-paced, ranked, multiplayer space arcade then by all means buy the rights to VRAGE and do it. It just won't be space engineers
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. halipatsui Senior Engineer

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    1,253
    Space battles would pretty much be "flying box with x amount of weapons vs flying box with x amount of weapons."
    SE has lots of different possibilities for competitons but nto really anything that makes current esports stuff thrive.
    Or i dont see any at least.
     
  6. ewanX3E Trainee Engineer

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    21
    It could also be a team with one mothership a few fighters and a few people repairing those ships.
     
  7. Dax23333 Junior Engineer

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    657
    I think it'd work well if weapon number, welder number, ship size and so on were limited as OP suggests. Otherwise it'd be a disaster of very forced designs as experimentation is limited by being shredded by a wall of gatling guns or similar. It might even be good to have a number of stock ships for the tournament with players picking one for each match.
     
  8. odizzido Junior Engineer

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    672
    If you were able to create your own ships before joining the server, have a weight limit check, and have only manually targeted weapons then yes I think it could work.
     
  9. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

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    2,227
    world of warships......but in space! :p
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. FlakMagnet Senior Engineer

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    1,551
    Whether you play PvE or PvP, the focus of the game is not on it being a good combat space sim. There have been lots of those...with all the things such a game needs....but SE isn't ever going to be it.

    You will never get enough people in game with high enough sim speed to make it viable. You also remove all the mining, refining, construction and engineering from the game. The end result would be the worst of both worlds.

    I am sure the game could be stripped back to remove planets and have just a couple of simple asteroids, remove mining, ores and refineries, and then use the underlying engine to produce something like that, but it would not be Space Engineers. With a lot less going on, without the need for deformable voxels, and with no underlying processes needed other than an ammo counter, much more fluid online gaming could be created. But it would have removed the reason a lot of people actually bought the game.

    Lets face it ...if I want to own a motorcycle, I don't buy a car and cut it in half......
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  11. Ghostickles Senior Engineer

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    2,077
    TLDR: still no headshot
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  12. Nacon Junior Engineer

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    591
    I can see it happening but not until Keen House get the game fully optimized with all of your CPU and threads sorted out first.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. JohnyMuffinYT Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    3
    In my opinion its impossible, due to the amount of bugs in the multiplayer when you introduce big ships,
    Maybe if you want to do e sports dog fighting in small ships, but until Keen (Fixes) multiplayer or changes off steam layer, its not going to be a thing.
     
  14. oleando Apprentice Engineer

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    145
    Good job you've created robocu-... Robocraft.
     
  15. Crusader Apprentice Engineer

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    177
    This game isn't even focused on PvP at ALL. No, this isn't going to be a PvP e-sport.
     
  16. Spets Master Engineer

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    3,214
    right now, I don't think this engine can even handle 20+ players. Of course I hope this is fixable and they find the way to make it work, but I have my doubts :s
    It seems to work fine with a few people, maybe 8 or less. Space battles between 2-3 moderately big ships and a lot of guns also runs decently.
    Anyways, I remember a year or 2 ago, MP was literally unplayable even with 2 players, so, we can still have hope.

    this is from Xocliw Livestream yesterday on a dedicated server, 25+ people, the SIM speed was bad. THere is no slow motion video edition here, unfortunately :/



    Complete session here:
     
  17. dispair Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    252
    Last stand gamers had a one on one series that was interesting. Check it out. Some astroids and every ship was different. Low weapon count and no ramming rules.

    I loved it, would like a xocliw sponsored match.
     
  18. doncdxx Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    413
    I think the majority of opinions on this can be simplified into 5 different views.



    Yes but,
    1. The game's optimization is not far enough along
    2. PvP is not balanced, and will require a lot of improvement/ point values that limit weapons wall.
    3. Weapon need improvements.

    No because,
    4. The game will never be optimized well enough
    5. That's not what the game is about


    I think we can all agree that the game needs more optimization and balance to reach the point where this is playable.
    To those that think the game can never be optimized enough, I can't argue with pessimism except with optimism.
    Maybe it will, maybe it won't. I don't know. I'm optimistic. The game still isn't done.


    @The Churrosaur
    @FlakMagnet
    @Crusader
    This last bit is about you guys.

    To those who say that PvP is not what SE is about, I ask why are weapons not just decorative?
    Oh, so combat is a part of the game, but only as an extension of survival gameplay (mining, ship building, etc.)?
    If that's the case, then why not complain to Keen that their campaign is not what the game is about? The engineering aspect of the game is effectively absent from the official campaign but combat is prevalent.
    Am I to believe that Keen doesn't know what their game is about?

    Perhaps the game is many things to many people. Perhaps the sandbox aspects could be applied to a multitude of gameplay styles and a variety of diverse scenarios.
    To the naysayers I refer you to the new dead drop start. Proof the devs have a form of quick start PvP in mind for the game. The devs are laying the ground work for what the game "isn't about".
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  19. FlakMagnet Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,551
    @doncdxx ...
    I do .... and I have.... and I suspect as far as the so called 'campaign' goes, that you are absolutely right.

    I also fail to see how a parachute drop start is PvP orientated. That's your personal view of something yet to be released. It could equally be a mechanic to put a survival capsule on the planet, rather than the current lander. The game will be what it will be.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2017
  20. The Churrosaur Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    744
    I'm sorry, I'll admit I was rather harsher than I should have been.

    I actually totally agree that SE PvP has an incredible amount of potential- something that I suddenly realized last night. I've been playing on The Last Bastion: Discord based, regulated faction PvP server- and it's been one of the best experiences I've had playing SE in the over thousand hours that I've played. When you put organised teams together with hearty server, a few good mods, VOIP, and rules that promote good combat- it all suddenly clicks into place and you have this amazing top-down, full-scale experience of war that's sucked away my life for the past month. Like, we had to discuss fleet composition and our logistics backbone, and organize CAP's for our miners when drilling in contested territory. We had to scout sectors and gather information on the enemy fleet. We had gunboat skirmishes around rogue asteroids, and battlefield-esque infantry engagements fighting to move up medbay 'spawn points' while marking GPS points to direct orbital artillery strikes . We've rehearsed for capital ship engagements where we hold destroyers in reserve to jump in on the enemy flank. At the end of the day we RTB to refit and assess the effectiveness of our fleet designs, and it's glorious. I have a great video to link of a recent battle, but this iteration of the server's still going and I wouldn't want to give away valuable intelligence ;)

    What's great about it too, is that it's all in the context of SE- it's all strategy and tactics and logistics based off of our ability to engineer our fleet. Theory, and practice.

    I totally agree that there's no one thing that SE's 'about', and that PvP in all forms- from the action of Dead-Drop fighters, to the grand strategy of faction wars- is already a wonderful part of it. There's definitely room for a tightly controlled, broadcastable, arena mode that would qualify as something like contemporary esports- I just don't feel like the devs should prioritize a 'competetive mode' at the cost of all the other things the game can do.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  21. SF-1 Raptor Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    740
    If you want to do a dogfighting league like LSG did, here are some rules you could use:
    1. You may have up to "x" amount of large and "y" amount of small engines.

    2. You may have up to "x" Gatling guns, "y" rocket launchers, and "z" reloadables.

    3. You must be able to see from your cockpit.

    4. Fighter's weight cannot exceed "x."


    Just some ideas.
     
  22. The Churrosaur Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    744
    Now that we rise victorious over the ashes of our enemies here are some videos of engagements: Assault on Blue's asteroid base- mostly from an infantry perspective: callsign Brown One and friendly fire artillery courtesy of yours truly- and Somewhat Anticlimactic Final Beatdown- featuring the glorious imperial fleet raining hellfire on blue's counterattack force while they were stuck as stations for repairs :p
    ...
    Videos are by 'Kurikaktus'- he has more great pvp content on his channel, including some prime examples of combat script usage. We're looking to put together a server showcase 'trailer' soon.

    Edit: we're down to set up a new 'round' for the next few days- planet only, wings and missiles. Now would be a great time to hop on the discord if you want to join!
     
  23. Crusader Apprentice Engineer

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    177
    I see nothing happening in majority of the video other than nerd talk and flying.
     
  24. The Churrosaur Junior Engineer

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    744
    It's space engineers lol, did you expect anything else? Also it's about an hour of unedited footage- so watch at the discretion of your own attention span.

    We're working on putting out an edited cinematic 'trailer' for the server- so maybe that'll make you happy when we get it out.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2017
  25. Crusader Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    177
    i'm not going to watch something which wastes my time. i just skipped through it. i could put that "hour" of unedited footage into doing something else.

    and sure, drop the cinematic trailer whenever it's out over here.
     
  26. Ravric Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    318
    No. It takes a lot of key things for a game to be an e-sport and SE does not have any of them.

    And that game will not be a e-sport either.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  27. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,863
    No. No one would watch it. Can't have an e-sport without spectators.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  28. halipatsui Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,253
    Se also kinda lacks the match type setting.
    Engineering takes time and is probably a bit boring to watch.
    If building is included matches would take quite a long time.
    If building is not included is it really SE?
     
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.