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deny batteries recaharging from reactors

Discussion in 'General' started by Sagi, Mar 25, 2016.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Sagi Apprentice Engineer

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    First of all let's thank keen for givving us a few updates ago the fact that batteries now recharge and discharge themselfs when it is needed. However i do feel something big missing right now.

    The option to deny batteries to recharge from a uranium reactor!

    Nobody wants solar energy to be lost but neither do we want our reactors getting drained to recharge batteries. (unless for a few situations of course.)

    I hope keen will ad this option in the future with the option of draining from reactors off as default.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
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    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  2. StuffYouFear Apprentice Engineer

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    They know we want this, been brought up a ton of times. They would basicly need to rewrite the underlieing code for how grids handle power.
    The best way to think of this is a colander
    [​IMG]
    Power producing blocks check and see if the bowl can hold more power and if not they stop trying to add. The power they produce all goes to the grid, not directly to the power sinks such as refinery or batteries. Now any power useing blocks check the grid to see if power is available. Since the power in the grid is like water in the colander, it does not know where it came from because it is already there.

    For them to be able to earmark power prioritys there would have to be a rewrite of the underlying way power is handled in the game, and while that would be awsome, what we have now works. Im sure they would love to change it but for the moment they have much more popular problems to address such as networking and crashs.

    Also they are trying to keep the game more simplfied for the vast majority of people, and their current setup is fairly user friendly.

    There are suggestions out there that work around the problem but I see them more of a bandaid rather than a cure for the underlying issue of how powers handled.

    (Also can anyone that knows the sorce code better could chime in and correct anything I got wrong)
     
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    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. Sagi Apprentice Engineer

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    For a moment there i tought you where gonna preach about the flying spaghetti monster with that image lol!
     
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  4. Eternal Visitor Trainee Engineer

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    71
    isn't there already some measure of power priorities? batteries will charge from solar panels first, as far as I've heard. having options to block off using reactor power to charge batteries at all would be nice though.
     
  5. splitsie Apprentice Engineer

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    I agree that this would be a nice feature, if it's as complex as @StuffYouFear posted then I understand why keen I'd putting their efforts elsewhere.

    For the time being, I'm happy enough to manually control my reactors, while dreaming of a day where I don't need to...
     
  6. Samsonguy920 Apprentice Engineer

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    245
    It seems that one way to do this in the meantime is to have a way to take the battery off the grid, and only bring it back when its power is needed. And one way to make that possible is to have a block that is electric neutral that you could shove the battery onto with a piston(or other method of switching). With that, it wouldn't be hard to have an isolated grid that is powered solely by solar panels that the battery would be attached to. Once the battery was needed for the main grid, just shove it over onto that grid.
    How difficult would an "isolated block(blocking any passage of electricity)" be to mod or even implement as stock?
     
  7. Sagi Apprentice Engineer

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    Something with a pston on rotor would be actually quite easy to do so. But it would be more difficult for ships. then you should have a seperate battery solar panal ship and if you get attacked ths would be extremly easy to destroy them.
     
  8. Cronos988 Junior Engineer

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    545
    While I think you have captured the underlying problem quite well, there is the fact that multiple batteries on a grid don't go into a self-charging loop and deplete themselves. Something (probably a hard-coded check) makes sure that power from a battery doesn't go to another battery unless the "recharge" flag is set. It is conceivable that you could also hard-code in a check for reactors to implement a "recharge batteries" flag. Or again make it the default behavior unless the battery is set to recharge.

    I actually build something in that direction before the new battery behavior was introduced. I had two grids of batteries, one grid of solar panels and the main grid. With Merge Blocks on Pistons turning on and off, I set up a system so that one set of batteries was connected to the main grid on discharge, and one set was connected to the solar panels on recharge, and they switched every 30 minutes. The problem with that is that even on a stationary grid, there are ever so slight misalignments of the Merge Blocks and the entire system fails to switch.
     
  9. SpecFrigateBLK3 Senior Engineer

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    1,133
    Maybe try switching the merge blocks with connectors.
     
  10. StuffYouFear Apprentice Engineer

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    Wish a dev would chime in and let us know how it all really works, instead of my most like inaccurate, outdated, and very generalized explanation.
    I would like to see how they stop batteries from looping.
    Id look at the sorce code myshelf but my brain isnt ready to be sent though a colander....
     
  11. AutoMcD Senior Engineer

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    2,369
    If you don't want to use uranium then just turn the reactor off. A script to automatically kick the reactor back on if power gets too low is pretty simple, probably a dozen of them on workshop.
    If you want to deep-cycle the batteries then it's the only way.

    Normally they assume the role of increasing power output ability.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. dispair Apprentice Engineer

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    252
    My battery system is hooked to the hotbar of my engineer's console. Sometimes I add in a button console too. I don't bother with scripts or merge blocks, simple is ... Well simpler.

    I use lots of hybrid systems, all my bas s are solar reactor battery, most ship are battery reactor. I know they have made huge improvements to behavior, but if you just turn off the reactor it is not charging batteries.
     
  13. toxi Apprentice Engineer

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    390
    hehe ... and now imagine what real life power managment looks like ...

    take an real life industry area ... everybody know that they start woring at 7:00 .. and the powerconsumption goes up from 0.0 at 4:00 to a peak at 7:00 (when everybody starts the same time) and goes down to something .. and so on .. and so on .... you always have to deliver more power than the system needs, but the time you know what they need, its to late ... and as StuffYouFear sayed ... you cant filter energy.

    you have to know your needs .. constructing a working powerinfrastructure is an quite interessting part of SE (and something where you can learn some stuf) ... and i would suggest that this is more a feature than it is a lag of it.
     
  14. Teravisor Apprentice Engineer

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    398
    Well, then give me distribution devices (You know that electric substations can actually manually change what gets electricity and what doesn't, right?) and cables (I want to plug in cable from my base into my miner!).
    For hardcore players you can add transformers, loss of power over distance unless power was transformed into higher voltage, ground connections, lightnings, power filter, synchronizations of electric waves between several reactors etc, etc...
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2016
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. toxi Apprentice Engineer

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    390
    ... or you can just switch the stuff off that you dont want to power.

    or you swich: i mean .. thats one timerblock: reactors on, batts off, and vice versa ... thats not hard.

    i dont want to make it a electrical simulation ... it is good as it is ... but again ... its an engineering game ... and solving your powerproblems is a vital part of engineering ... and as it is ... its pretty simple now ...
     
  16. Teravisor Apprentice Engineer

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    I want reactors to still produce energy because batteries are often not enough, so what you proposed is not a solution.
    Then give me a way to solve it, using engineering ways, not a workaround which inhibits my creation.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Sagi Apprentice Engineer

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    From what i have seen from all the answers it is in the code rather difficult to implement it this easy.
    I am sure the solution for this WILL come but the dev's are doing more important things right now.
     
  18. toxi Apprentice Engineer

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    390
    i dont know ... i think you can overcome a lot with the bat setting (recharge/discharge), timer blocks and programming blocks ...

    from my perspective, every solution in SE is some workaround ... but real engineering isnt that different in this way, is it? ;)
     
  19. AutoMcD Senior Engineer

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    2,369
    The solution is more battery, more solar, or less power consumption.
     
  20. Hakon102 Apprentice Engineer

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    Sorry, i disagree. Use a programmable block for this use case. This is a typical engineering task. Im more for an easier programmable logic controller (PLC) with simple logic as an alternative for programmable blocks.
     
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    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  21. StuffYouFear Apprentice Engineer

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    This game lacks cables, rectifiers, return grounds and such. I really do miss the old IC2 mod for minecraft because logical power distrbution problems were made fun by the way they did it. Theres a hundred diffrent ways they could implement energy management but what they have now is simple, it works, and most importently it does not currently break the game when new things are added or are changed. That alone is a huge incentive to let things be, for the moment atlest, to the developers. Why waste the time making somthing new that has to interact with every other block your currently rewriting for multiplayer that could cause new unforseen issues, or even worse, potentially isnt fun in how they did it. It would be like having to write scratched glass but for every block in the game.
     
  22. Sagi Apprentice Engineer

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    Not everyone know's how to use the programmable block even with scripts from the workshop.
     
  23. Hakon102 Apprentice Engineer

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    Yes, i know. This is why i suggest an easy PLC Block. With AND/OR/NOT and <>= etc. . Something Similar to the ACB from "From the Depths"
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  24. toxi Apprentice Engineer

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    390
    i was wondering in the first place why they added the programmingblock in the way they did ... but i guess the reason was that they are programmers ... from their perspective that is the easy way to do it for everybody :D
     
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  25. Sagi Apprentice Engineer

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    265
    I could not agree more! Would even be better if you have these options and the button will translate it into the script code.
    This way casual gamers are not only playing space engineers but also learn simple programming!
    This is actually worth a new topic.
     
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  26. Teravisor Apprentice Engineer

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    398
    Even as programmer, I must say it's much faster to drag/drop object somewhere than to write proper failsafe find method for that one block/block group. That's not topic's idea though...
    It won't help energy from reactors to bypass batteries. I still need at least two grids and a way to move battery between them to stop batteries consuming uranium when recharging without disabling ship. Which is catastrophic on DS with how multiplayer works right now.
     
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Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.