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Durability of iron tools

Discussion in 'General' started by Thermonuklear, Jan 28, 2017.

?

Should the durability of iron tools be increased?

  1. Yes, I'd like it if the tools lasted indefinitely

    1 vote(s)
    6.3%
  2. Yes, the tools should be more durable, but not indestructible

    7 vote(s)
    43.8%
  3. If only I could repair my tools...

    8 vote(s)
    50.0%
  4. I feel the tools are great as they are

    5 vote(s)
    31.3%
  5. No, iron shouldn't be that tough

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. No, make tools break on impact because reasons beyond comprehension

    1 vote(s)
    6.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Thermonuklear Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    611
    I was derping around in SP survival for probably the first time ever. I noticed that iron tools are... rather frail. Iron tools (even bog iron)should last a lot longer, requiring maybe some honing every now and then and perhaps repairs in the long run, instead of running to the smithy/toolshed every five minutes.

    The low durability may fit multiplayer a little better, especially roleplay servers where you may have a dedicated blacksmith etc., but in SP it's mostly annoying. You can even circumvent losing your hard-earned iron simply by tossing a nearly destroyed tool in the furnace, losing only those precious wooden sticks in the process.

    I made a quick poll to map how alone I am with my opinion. Please do answer and describe your choice in better detail below!

    tldr: Iron is too weak, make it stronger and repairable. Answer the poll!

    EDIT _'
    I'm too drunk to fix my whiny tone in the message, don't take it the wrong way.., the whole thing's a minor issue thanks to medieval master and mods.
    EDITINEDIT
    Speaking of mods, I cocked up this little thing that makes iron tools almost infinite. I think.
    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=852081452
     
  2. Taemien Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    468
    The iron tools were recently buffed. And currently they last quite a while. Also I think that the converting them to iron and back is to represent 'repairing' currently.
     
  3. Ghostickles Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,077
    Add Carbon to make Steel. More tech. Durability +10 or whatever.
     
  4. waterlimon Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,499
    My position is:
    If you need to carry more than one of an iron tool in your inventory, it is too weak, or too hard to repair.

    So going with that, in my experience iron axes are ok (usually dont cut that many trees are a time), as are plows/hammers (which could even be nerfed).

    But I need to carry 3 pickaxes for mining to be comfortable.


    There are many ways this could be fixed. I do NOT want things to become indestructible - that removes necessary gameplay breaks (its not fun to mine continuously for a long time).
    The following set of changes would make me happy:
    1. Increase rate of mining about 2-3x (effectively increase pickaxe duration, reduce unnecessary waste-of-time grinding)
    2. Make all iron deposits ~2x bigger horizontally, and much much deeper (preferably have them grow the deeper you dig). This is to balance WRT point 1, and to encourage building infrastructure around mines.
    3. Make tools not break when they hit 0 health. Instead, reduce their effectiveness to like 10% (they should still work)
    4. Implement a way to repair* tools with less manual input.
    5. (reducing tool effectiveness based on how damaged they are, could also be a good change, so a 5% health tool is worse than a 100% one - this incentivizes players to find solutions to keep tools at high health, and not just solutions to have tools above 0% health)

    Repair:
    There must be a reason for repairing to be a feature. Currently it acts as a resource sink for sticks, and to interrupt grinding once in a while so theres some variety in gameplay.
    However, we can do better.

    With the incoming mechanical power systems, I think repairing should be a sink for power, and an incentivizer for building infrastructure.
    This could be done by introducing an automatic repair apparatus (inb4 not realistic).
    It would SLOWLY repair a tool over time, without manual input (only requires power from windmill / animals / you).
    So you mine, tool is damaged, you attach it to repair apparatus. Now you have no tool, so cant continue working.
    So either you do something else (variety = good), or you build more repair apparatus and tools until they match your usage (incentivize engineering = good).
    (time of repairing one tool, relative to time to wreck one tool, determines how many tools and repair apparatus youll need for maximal effectiveness)

    So thats the engineering approach to mining.

    The great thing is that there are other approaches. You could just keep crafting more tools (maybe you can recycle the materials from the broken ones), like you currently do (preferably you would lose some iron instead of full recovery).
    You could also keep mining with a dull tool (if this is to be a valid approach, maybe 0% health tools should be 20-70% effective). Maybe there is a different tool that is practically indestructible, but has some disadvantage (maybe its heavier, maybe it loses some of the mined material, maybe its dangerous, maybe its not a hand tool but attached to a cart or such, maybe it consumes resources to gain its durability...).

    Perhaps repairing will always remain a simple manual task, but its one place where devs could implement incentives to use mechanical blocks/power.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. Taemien Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    468
    With double inventory size. I can usually get a couple of loads of stone with one pickaxe. One could 'repair' it after every other load with a forge and anvil at the drop off site. I'm not against making iron picks just a little more durable, but to say you need 3 is a bit misleading.

    Ironically, I think axes could be tweaked a bit. I will break an axe before filling up my cart. Due to the increases of large chests capacity, this wasn't the case before. And the cart can still move at full capacity.
     
  6. waterlimon Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,499
    I think I played on a server with 5x inventory, that might be why...

    Still, if tools are going to break, it needs to add more to the game than unnecessary stress and busywork. Mining is too slow as is.
     
  7. Thermonuklear Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    611
    I wouldn't hate it if we had a whetstone that would "heal" the tool back to full. Maybe whetting could reduce the tool's max durability a little?
     
  8. Taemien Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    468
    I can't disagree with the idea that breaking tools needs to add to the game. But I'm on the fence because I believe that mining stone shouldn't be a solo person's affair. I mean a solo person can totally do it. I keep a warehouse stocked with 1200-1800ish stone so I can build a small castle at anytime. But building stone larger structures (with the 12 stone cubes) should be balanced around quite a bit of effort. They take alot to take down or bypass in comparison to small stone walls and wood.

    In that case you can under normal situations (5x inventory isn't really normal, and I don't think that affects chests) you can bring a full load or two with one pick and then swap it out with a fresh one when needed. Then have another who's moving stuff around while you're gathering to replace/repair/recycle the picks for you.

    Another way you could look at it is going underground in a multiplayer environment is the easiest way to hide one's operations. Pick durability slows this process down a bit. Forcing one to bring enough resources along to make it happen. Especially if its used offensively.
     
  9. Frostik Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    152
    Deeper would be nice but instead of growing, the value of the deposit should increase. So maybe after 15m you get more iron and less stone.
     
  10. Fluzard Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    87
    I think it's important to have the possibility of repair our tools. I propose the efficiency lowers when the durability is around 0, and when the tool is completely worn, you can still use it but with a very low efficiency. You can repair the tool by changing the handle ( you add some sticks and maybe you can recover some scrap wood of the handle, which can be used to be burnt for example ? ) and "re-polishing" the iron part with (like you say) a specific craft station.
    ( link : https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7d/Meule.JPG/220px-Meule.JPG)

    But the process will be only workable 3-4-5 times.
     
  11. waterlimon Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,499
    I mean, preferably youd have both, and then maybe have different ores deeper as well, and maybe some cool caves, and maybe some underground forests, and then you accidentally break into hell etcetc.
     
  12. Thermonuklear Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    611
    [​IMG]

    ---

    Having tool heads and handles as separate items would be ideal. especially if you could whittle a new handle via self-crafting menu. Handles break often enough, I've dodged a few flying axe heads while chopping firewood (in Real Lifeā„¢).

    I hope repairing tools gets some love in the future. Currently you can just make a furnace and a smithy on the worksite and -boom- "infinite" tools, just watch that (tool)health bar. I don't want another bar to keep track of :p
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Fluzard Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    87
    Yeah, i don't think it can be settled by only increasing the tool bar.
     
  14. SaturaxCZ Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,718
    I did realy like repair system in one game:
    when tool/weapon get around:
    85%-90% hp = you did use oil or low cost repair kit = classic mentaince + you can hide repair kit in pocket and mentaince take few seconds.
    25%-85% hp = you had to use more repair tools and did cost more resources and time make them and repair items/weapons.
    under 25% hp = tool is broken and you need special repair tools + furnance/anvil/table, atc.... to repair it + repair take long time, but was still cheaper then creat new item. ( ofcourse you can still use tool/weapon, but it can break any second ;) )
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2017
  15. Ghostickles Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,077
    Steel should be a thing, perhaps players earn a very small amount of carbon while cooking and smelting. This was the biggest improvement to the durability of iron in the middle ages bar none. The whetstone/grinding wheel would also be a nice addition, although you do not sharpen hammers :)
     
  16. REDSHEILD Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    888
    Actually, you do: [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  17. Fluzard Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    87
    Yes, Combined with the next mechanical update, It will be handsome ! This new craft station is really relevant concerning this next update.
     
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.