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Environmental Hazards... yes or no?

Discussion in 'General' started by Spets, Nov 14, 2016.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Spets Master Engineer

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    3,214
    do people want this in the game? is just me and a few more? not big deal? you hate it? waste of resources? performance hit? what is it?



    I knew it was possible to add in this game, this environmental hazards, and it can also be randomized or localized to affect just an area, or in an specific event, moment, whatever. Like fireflies maybe? or Like the solar storm in MW. I know they can also add storms in planets, I saw particles that looked like that, it was a graphic glitch, but with a little work it can be a storm, or something. I donno, in my opinion this will add a lot to the immersion and gameplay.

    EDIT: ok, wait. Of course I don't want my ship or base to disintegrate in 5 minutes. So, perhaps, with this Environmental Hazards we should also get some countermeasures or whatever is called. New Armor, that can only be built using materials collected in this inhospitable planets, but why then? why you want that armor, or why you want to even be in this planet? Maybe because its richness in different ore types, or maybe to create a corrosive missile, I donno :p
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2016
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Like Like x 2
  2. damoran Junior Engineer

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    608
    I think it adds some needed depth to the gameplay. Would be nice to know there's some places that require an extra bit of planning and/or strategy before I go there.

    I have always imagined there being nebulas as well, in SE, that would damage ships within them offering possible benefits along with the drawbacks. If anyone ever played...I think it was Star Trek Armada, they had some interesting pros/cons with the nebulas...some would render your ship invisible to enemies, others would damage your ship or make shields useless etc.

    In addition to corrosive atmospheres perhaps there are some that disable certain blocks such as reactors, weapons, cameras, remote controls. Like an EMP storm or something.

    As long as the rewards are worth the risk it would be a nice addition I think.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  3. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    4,841
    Environmental hazards offers a realm of challenges for scenario play.

    For example, an objective may be placed on a corrosive planet and the player may have to figure out a way to get down to the objective and back out with the ship still functional.

    Another workshop goody is the blackhole. Which is a planet that's entirely dark but with a fantastical amount of gravity. A ship capable of reaching an asteroid above the planet could be part of an objective.

    While usage for planets like these would be a bit moot in simple survival, scenarios or scenario style play may make use of them. It's sandbox.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. chrisb Senior Engineer

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    1,460
    Yes, why not.
     
  5. Michael_6748967 Trainee Engineer

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    95
    What with the scenarios/visual scripting, I hope we see more of these things.

    Love your YouTube channel, SpetS. I know you say you're shy, but I'd encourage you to talk more. You have a good voice and a dry sense of humor, which goes perfectly with the ... unexpected opportunities for creative engineering solutions that tend to happen in SE.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. SilentShadow Apprentice Engineer

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    286
    II like the concept. Hopefully this effects only block in unpressurized areas. Considering that an hour is about half a day in default settings, the rate seems about right.

    I suppose heavy armor should last a long time and repairing it will simply be the cost of business. Pressurized hangers will be very valuable in such worlds.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. Spets Master Engineer

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    3,214
    ok, thanks Michael :p

    Environmental Hazards that I will like to see, just for the challenge tho, I didn't thought about the pros and cons yet...

    Corrosive
    Poisonous
    Radioactive
    Hot
    Cold
    Electricity... EMP storms maybe too
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  8. SilentShadow Apprentice Engineer

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    286
    Does damage inversely scale with altitude?

    EDIT: Outside of creative does the engineer take damage?
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2016
  9. Speshal_Snowman Apprentice Engineer

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    It would help a lot, especially if we had to upgrade equipment for different climates
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. kittle Senior Engineer

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    1,086
    Neat ideas, but as you said in the first post - WHY would we want to go there?
    Some will go there because its there. but most players will opt out unless there is a good reward waiting, or some gating resource they need in order to progress.
     
  11. DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    3,748
    On the subject of the acid field, I feel that new armor that is acid proof completely negates the actual danger that the acid cloud would actually provide, making the idea of environmental hazards more of a environmental nuisance. I like the idea of a obstruction that I would either have to fly around or design a ship that had welders under the hull to repair on the move, or risk flying through and then repairing afterward.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    4,841

    It creates an external problem that must be solved or mitigated. You know... engineer the f*** out of it. Having a ready made solution available in the game is counter to the entire idea of "Engineer." If the devs or the mod maker simply make the "anti-" block to negate the problem then where is the fun in that. I think players are far too ingrained in the solution being in a tech tree rather than in their own minds.

    The only thing that's missing is a reason to endanger your ship. So maybe if the planet had large surface deposits of uranium, gold, magnesium, and platinum there would be a survival reason to head to the planet. It also depends on the rate of degradation. If it can be easily changed in the planets .sbc file, then a balance between ore and damage could make the planet worthwhile. Perhaps if there was a moon with scant resources and then major benefits on the planet you could develop a difficult server for players to work on. Not being able to establish a permanent base would be an interesting change to the dynamics.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Spets Master Engineer

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    3,214
    I think no, because I was in Survival but using Space Master
     
  14. Me 10 Jin Apprentice Engineer

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    463
    For scenarios, yes, hostile environments is a grand idea. For regular survival, we're still waiting for a logistical reason to visit the "friendly" planets, so adding hostile planets seems like a bridge to nowhere at this point.

    Also add high pressure to the list of atmospheric impediments. Instead of atmospheric pressure ranging from 0 to 1, it could range from 0 to 50 with higher pressures causing more and more damage to unprotected characters.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  15. DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    3,748
    Well this just leads to this discussion.
     
  16. Spingitore Trainee Engineer

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    28
    I only play survival (using creative just for ship designing), and I think it would be much more interesting if you need to overcome certain challenges in order to progress in the game, without necessarly involving fighting. As of now, when you start a new game (I always start with the yellow ship in asteroids), you have all the materials you need to build anything in a radius of 30 km max (unless you are extremely unlucky). It would be much more challenging and interesting to add a progression to what you can build, having some materials appear only in specified areas/planets. Something like this:

    Asteroids -- only basic materials (Iron, Ice, Stone a couple more). The bare minimum to survive and build simple stuff.
    Terrestrial planets -- more advanced material, giving you the possibility to build more advanced stuff and ships, needed to progress further.
    Toxic planets -- most advanced material.

    This, of course, means some component requirements need to be adjusted, but that's the easy part.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. FlakMagnet Senior Engineer

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    1,551
    I think this kind of thing potentially adds a lot to the game.

    It's a game mechanic...and it's actual value is in how it gets used. IF there were critical elements that you need to make high tier engines, refineries etc. then it gives you a reason to go down and brave the dangers. I also think that whatever is down there must NOT be essential ( i.e. you should be able to play normally without going there ) but should provide a big benefit if you do ...and live.

    The game has to reward the players efforts....but also provide a lot of risk if you want the rewards. You should also be able to play safe, avoid hazardous environments, and have a perfectly playable game....just without those extra bits if you don;t fancy it.

    Corrosive environments are one thing....which would just eat through your hull. That adds damage and limit time of exposure. Currently hurting players or blocks is the only 'punishment' that can be dished out.

    To do other hazards though, you would need to add some elements that we don;t currently have in terms of core gameplay. Heat and cold are kind of impossible right now as we have no means of dealing with them...

    What would be REALLY nice, though, is if we could have damage from contact with certain voxel types, rather than just from being in the atmophere. Then you could simulate lava etc. and have it cause damage if you land in it, step in it or even get too close too it.

    I love the concept and want this in game. I would also like to know whether Keen can add to this or whether modders are going to have to make it happen if at all.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  18. dispair Apprentice Engineer

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    252
    An acid planet as the only source of iridium. And iridium is a component in an adv heavy armor and high efficiency ion thrusters. Now even in a sandbox game you have a reason to visit.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  19. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

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    2,863
    I have mixed feelings about passive PVE stuff - it certainly adds gameplay but it's kinda flat gameplay. You've got a couple of ways to work around the issue and once you've adopted one of those options it merely adds more gameplay load without giving you more fun.

    You know...like dogs, spiders, and meteors.

    Hostile environments require incentives to visit certain locations but without making progress impossible - like less even distribution in the random asteroid field which is a popular suggestion. Until some sort of incentive exists to visit planets where the only impediment is gravity, adding hostility is just making planets even more of a bastard step child.

    The one thing that really could pay off well is a fleshed out grid-based, PVE experience. But really that feature is half baked. Most ships are passive with the exception of spawning flimsy drones.

    So really, until grid PVE is finished, mob PVE (spiders, dogs, meteors) gets to the point where it's interesting, and there is some well balanced reason to actually visit planets I can't exactly get thrilled about enviro hazards.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Levits Senior Engineer

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    2,122
    Incentives for planets:
    Infinite resource pockets. <build a base and harvest special resources such as Oil, water (aka hydrogen and oxygen), plant matter (if/when food is added), and additional "alien" monoliths in the form of static structures providing increased production output or unique equipment/building parts (such as advanced weapons or structure blocks).

    No digging required except to reach these deposited sites. Once you get the appropriate harvesting device down and into the "zone" it will begin generating unlimited resources <but of course would do so over time and at a steady rate.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  21. Spingitore Trainee Engineer

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    28
    You're essentialy right, but I have even more mixed feelings with the pirates being a strong menace or, even worse, a timed menace. Maybe it's just me and my play style, but in general, and particularly in this game, I like to build up slowly, making things as efficent as I can sacrificing game etc... so building everything with an imminent pirate menace would be a big down for me. While adding some kind of rewards to visiting planets would give me some reasons to visit them, as now I really don't give a s++ about them.
    To be honest, for me the addition of planets was really a bad idea, so many time and resources wasted, that could be used to improve the experience with space and asteroids. But they're there and gonna stay, so we (or at least I) really need incentives to visit. As flakmagnet pointed out, though, it's important not to center the game around them and eventual incentives, with the risk of ruining everything.
     
  22. Acolyte Apprentice Engineer

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    109
    I would rather not see this kind of new thing added to the game,but not because I don't like it.

    I simply think the devs have enough on their plate already, with the issues the game has with its complexities (sim speed for me) , and their own self inflicted wounds (I'm looking at you windows, cos I sure as hell can't look through you..)

    Let them get the game into a sane state first, then add new funky bits.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  23. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

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    2,863
    Because it's a sandbox game all of these things should be tunable or even turned off, and for the most part they are. The timer based mechanics driving meteors, dogs, and spiders is not very satisfying so they shouldn't continue that mechanic to all aspects of PVE. The Argentavis suffered from being like that. Now it's so rare I haven't seen a single one in months.

    I think triggerable events are better - say counter attacks if you capture a pirate base. Or a chance of attack if you stockpile X amount of ingots, or if you build a warship. It would also really be nice if there was a base amount of bot ship activity - trading ships, etc.

    As the game is setup now the prirates and cargo ships are just another form of resource that you have to shot a little and grind, instead of drill, refine, assemble. But engagements with pirates feel more like a resource collecting activity that actual combat.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  24. DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    3,748
    I definately don't think we need infinite resources on planets. we already have that in space by an oversaturation of roids. the only thing the planet would do is remove a gameplay mechanic.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  25. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    4,841
    As a whole, a great incentive for planets would be refining and production bonuses in atmospheres. If you want to get ahead faster, come down to a planet. But then you have to contend with dogs/spiders or possibly other hazards of a planet (gravity is definitely on the list).

    To me, the ideal situation is to make resources easier/more abundant to obtain in space while production is easier on planets. Now you have a reason to ferry things between planets and free space. Example: you mine ore in space and transfer it to a planet to be refined and produce components. You ferry the components to your satellite station where you are building your free-space only ship.

    A toxic planet with ultra-high production bonuses would lead to some people considering a processing station... but then figure out how to build it so that it was pretty much self-repairing ("engineer the f... out of it").

    It's basically level design questions... but IMHO they have to slew to the player using experience and creativity to solve the problem to enjoy the benefit. There's no "one" solution but solutions that work and don't work as the player tries to overcome the problem. That's great gaming, folks. Because it's ENGAGING.
     
  26. Spets Master Engineer

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    3,214
    I have spiders turned on in my survival world, they give me free resources and some times a good jump scare or something to shot at. I heard dogs/wolfs are much more annoying, unbalanced. They surely have to rework the spawn system, sometimes the spiders just spawn inside my base armor and I have to use Space Master before it destroy the base completely. Meteorite shower, I dont use it, because this turrets are useless against it.
    But yeah, this environmental hazards are more like cosmetic and just for the challenge. I see that just adding this effects is not enough and it will need a lot more of stuff, gameplay features, to work together.
    But, i will keep dreaming for it, maybe a mod will do it. :/
     
  27. Acolyte Apprentice Engineer

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    109
    Wolves also give loot, and I suspect are just as annoying as Saberoids, no more, no less.

    I enjoyed having wolves in my Survival game for the first hour, then they just became a troll on the game. After about 20 hours I finally turned them off.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  28. Spingitore Trainee Engineer

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    28
    I am aware that I am going a bit OT here, but I think the game, even in this state, needs some gameplay to proceed to a more playable state. I understand the concept of sandbox, and enjoy the fact that I can basically do everything without limitations. At the beginning of the game this looks great as even in survival, after a few hours of struggle, you're essentially entitled to build anything, with the only limitation of your own time. This also means that you can get A LOT of hours of fun from this game. The point is that, at some point, you get bored of designing and building ships/stations and you have to give up, unless you are extremely dedicated (what percentage of players are we talking here? I suspect a vast minority). And to me this is a lot of wasted potential.

    What I dream for this game is the building/designing/physics concepts of SE, merged with a gameplay similar to EVE online. Imagine a universe where you start from scratch, with your blocks, asteroids and everything, and then transtition to a complex economy/social system. Imagine you have to learn, similar to how is done EVE, to mine, or build certain stuff, or use certain equipment....This would add a huge depth to the game and I think add a huge of fun and addiction to the game. I would take out the heavy pvp part of EVE, which I always disregarded and is the reason that brougth me away from that game, but the rest is really well done and could make a wonderful environment for a SE dynamic and alive universe.

    I am aware this is only a dream because:
    1- I guess creating and mantaining such a universe is an astonishing effort.
    2- Most players want (better say pretend) a heavy pvp environment (but I am still pretty sure there is a big 'silent' minority that, like me, enjoys pve, or light pvp, much more).
    Yet I still like to dream.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  29. chemicalscum Apprentice Engineer

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    318
    Wolves would be alright in an eco-system. Definitely not how they work now.

    And I love to see more environmental hazards, like temperature and radiation.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  30. R-TEAM Junior Engineer

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    530
    The Main problem with so an nice option .. it should affect the grid from the outside to the inside ...
    The first it should only affect blocks that are direct on the surface of the grid - and as this, in direct contact with the "hazard" ...
    only if this blocks "melted" - the next layer is in "hazard" - or of it leaks an inner room tunnel the whole ship ...
    But this is ATM (and in an manageable timeframe ..) not possible with the game ...
    (not that it is not possible in general - you can get software where simulate this ... but this is writen by coders with enough skill ..........)

    Regards
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
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