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Feature Lock

Discussion in 'General' started by Bluedrake42, Oct 17, 2015.

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  1. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

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    Anybody else catch that post of the OP's a moment ago where they said anyone that agreed with them left the community long ago, then proceeded to quote the entirety of the opening post? Looks like they tried bumping their thread then had second thoughts.

    EDIT: My mistake, wasn't OP, was someone with a name like "Azzazine" or something.
     
  2. Aracus Senior Engineer

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    1,931
    And if it was this "easy" and fast to implement, why would the people stomping the suggestion down say otherwise? and with such gusto at that?

    There is something seriously wrong with the spirit of this forum when people would rather pile on and defend,excuse/explain away problems and stomp the one criticizing them(even if occasionally with bad writing and/or tone) than build the discussion into something constructive in any way. The status quo isn't always the best, even if we sometimes have to accept it one should always at least STRIVE to improve the baseline. If it doesn't happen, it doesn't, but why argue to stay in sub-par conditions?

    Edit: Prediction: Indignation, rage and stomping incoming just to attempt to counter my point(and probably instead prove it)
     
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  3. Lrj52 Apprentice Engineer

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    People disliked his post because of his tone, and frankly you seem to be making the same mistake with you're own.
     
  4. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

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    2,818
    Honestly?

    The reaction probably would have been way more positive if the OP had just asked "Hey, does anyone know if Keen would be able to add different download branches? Has somebody made an official suggestion of such?" rather than, you know, coming in with the same entitled tone we've all seen a hundred times before and are sick of.
     
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  5. Azzanine Apprentice Engineer

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    289
    My bad, trying to edit quotes on a mobile is not advised. It was like I deleted the quote markups meaning I accidentally reposted the op.
    Edit; I took issue with OPs air of importance "we need dev branches because YouTubers are suffering we need to lock features I don't care if it's alpha where this sort of stuff is supposed to happen bit you are ruinin mah recordings"/heavy paraphrasing". A stable version to rollback to that lets you actually play when things get buggier than bat shit is the epitome of a good idea. Don't know enough to truly know what a dev branch is though.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2015
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  6. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

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    2,818
    I hear so many mobile woes stories, haha. No biggie; it just looked like some Juicy Action when a post showed up that looked at a glance like it was by the OP needlessly restating his opening opinion, then vanishing the moment I hit "reply".
     
  7. Azzanine Apprentice Engineer

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    289
    I really just wanted to catch that last part about keeping things to yourself and replying "That's not how things work on the Internet sweetie pie (or insert something obnoxiously condescending).
    You can't say shit like that last part and get away with it. Posting an opinion on a forum then telling others to keep theirs to themselves is the absolute hyperbolic epitome of hypocrisy you can reach.
     
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  8. Aracus Senior Engineer

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    A mistake of pointing out how pissy the attitude people here on the forum have? If so we have different values on things mate. And I was intentionally provocative with my post for that matter. As for the OP, we obviously read things differently too because I saw none of this supposedly bad tone.
    "As for the OP, we obviously read things differently too because I saw none of this supposedly bad tone."
    And that still doesn't warrant the reaction he got. which is the point. Not how he wrote it but how everyone else took it and responded.
     
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  9. Cronos988 Junior Engineer

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    545
    Forums for early access games are commonly one sided. Up to a certain point, most communities I have been in have been very defensive of the developers and defending decisions - no matter their merits - with varying fervor. This ends when a game is being clearly abandoned, at which point the community switches over to being aggressive.

    Not to engage in too much folk psychology, but I think a factor to consider is that in an early access environment, people tend to associate the game more strongly with the people developing it, because teams are smaller and the contact more intimate. So if people like the game, they feel compelled to defend the people making the game even if they wouldn't normally agree with an individual decision or would also like things changed. I have noticed it for myself. If I am passionate about a game being made, I get more defensive when people criticize it, because I fear that the criticism might impair the dev in making the game I want. Especially if it's a niche game with no other viable options for similar gameplay, I will overlook it's flaws just to have something.

    And there is of course all the usual social structure with the added problem of lacking a lot of information and feedback from the other person that would normally tamper many responses.
     
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  10. Lrj52 Apprentice Engineer

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    246
    Here are some examples:
    I can see it pretty clearly, and I can now see it in your response too. He wrote a post with a bad attitude, that practically ASKED for the response he got. And, well... he got the response he expected, didn't he?
    @BlackUmbrellas point still applies. If you don't want people to react in such a way to your post, don't write a post that baits them into doing so.
     
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  11. Mix-martes86 Senior Engineer

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    1,110
    Well, the boy is now a happy camper, as his "request" has been fulfilled, and it's probable we won't see him again around here, so there's no point in keeping any arguments here, specially if they're X vs Y.

    Cheers
     
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  12. Aracus Senior Engineer

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    1,931
    What I see is that he, like me, are poking at an underlying problem with the community.

    The problem? It, community, the people here, likes to rage, hate and stomp.
    Even now you guys are claiming your right to pour hatred on a guy because someone made an observation and disclaimer about expected reactions to his indignated request for improvement on things that harmed his game experience(for no really good reason at that) and in a way even income.(which in turn is free advertising for KSH and SE)


    Really, everyone has the right to be irritated or even get mad about things, but do we really need to express it the way we do? In groups or alone with varying degrees of harsh words against people instead of actually trying to keep good spirit and turn annoying things into constructive things? or at best(with repeated same topic threads popping up) point it out, link to other threads and leave? Or if you are short of temper, just report it or ignore it and move on?
     
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  13. Chaosrex Apprentice Engineer

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    188
    Of what i saw of this thread;

    " I'm gonna rant, and i don't give a fuck of what people may say to me"
    "Dude chill, they are working on it, don't ask for unnecassary things"
    "Dude you're a hater thats aggresing me and i din't ask you anything"...

    Like someone else pointed out, he could have asked nicely about the dev branche, simply as that, no he did come and make a DEMAND, what?, you're the King of the Web if Keen doesn't comply to your demands you will cut off the interwebs and forbid SE acces to the other peoples who enjoys it?...

    Dude, you're not the only one that bugs irks the hell out of you, there is thousands of people in the same boat, i hardly think someone is like " oh goody a new bug!, its so exciting!", but we make do with it, because we know its how a game devlopement goes.

    No the only reason he went on a rant is because those bugs interfere with their youtube vids, vids that they do to earn youtube money, so basically( and stop me if i'm wrong here), he making money on the back of a broken and unfinished game, and still complains about it?...

    Thomas as been really nice to answer you, he really is and if you meet him irl you can buy him a drink, because i certainly would'nt have given you the time if asked.
     
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  14. Bluedrake42 Trainee Engineer

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    50
    Being that I've recently been invited to visit Keen headquarters in the Czech Republic that's probably likely to happen. Also after talking in depth with Tomas, I'm happy to say that we've found we share very similar long-term philosophies in game design. So I've been subsequently invited to participate in their closed development testing branch. I'll be taking up any future concerns or feedback with them directly from now on, as so far that's been the most productive way for me to contribute to their development process.

    So far I'm happy to say that Keen has shattered my expectations not only in terms of their openness to the ideas of others, but also in the quality and planning of their long term development plans. After working with their team directly, and seeing what they have in store, while I'm not allowed to disclose specifics... my confidence in this game has never been higher. The development of this game, and the fulfilling of its community's expectations is both a responsibility and a business. As is promoting this game to my audience, and providing my input on how to improve it. I'm humbled to see that Keen is one of the few cutting edge development studios to recognize our fundamental mutual interests, and to have the opportunity to build a relationship with them directly.

    In the mean time, go watch the Keen livestream. You'll be very happy you did.



    There is so much more to come. However excited you think you are... trust me when I say that you are not excited enough.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2015
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  15. carbonCore Trainee Engineer

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    37
    OP, not sure if your last post closed the discussion or not, but I'd like to add something.

    You mentioned wanting branches, like a stable branch / unstable branch. I will respectfully disagree. I think that in order for development to move along smoothly, all the newest features should be thoroughly tested. If they sneak in stealth planetcode and netcode updates, they probably want to see what it will do to people's games on people's respective gaming machines, for a wider cross section of bugs. I feel that that's a better way to go than to cater to people who want to be playing a stable game. Soon enough, I think, those people will complain about a lack of features -- one way or another, you can't keep everyone happy.
     
  16. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

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    2,818
    Well, gratz on your promotion of sorts, Blue.
     
  17. entspeak Senior Engineer

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    1,744
    There is now an "old_multiplayer" branch available in the Betas tab in steam. How it is different, I have no idea.
     
  18. Azzanine Apprentice Engineer

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    289
    But what about the bad press from those who who don't know that opting in to early access obligates you to test a game for free?
    Some people are just under the impression that they payed money no matter how trivial an amount to play a game. Those people are rubbish at testing and will likey just stopp playing whilst slagging off the game denting it amd Keens reputation.
    Also cultivating a multiplayer community now will only strengthen the game later, multiplayer can't survive without stability. A stable rollback point will provide this stability.

    Also don't underestimate human curiosity it's not like most people would wouldn't try the newst updates. People like the prospect of new shiny stuff and they WILL try it. Those that don't probably wouldn't give bug reports anyway. Clang knows I don't give any bug reports (althoug I will confirm issues so I guess that kinda counts).

    Stop underestimating people man, Keen has and will have more then enough truly dedicated testers reportimg bugs. Even if they only got 1% of the players properly testing they would have way more testers than most AAA game firms.
     
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  19. Ed Frost Senior Engineer

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    1,158
    as a student who has to make a new game every, lets say, 6weeks. I know what you mean, game programming is quite a hell sometimes.
     
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  20. Conradian Moderator

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    2,596
    Hi guys. As seen our lord and saviour the great tease known as Tomas has contacted @Bluedrake42 and hopefully everyone else as well now understands a bit better the situation.

    As noted there are actually two main branches of SE development though most people only seen the second of the two.

    Thank you all for your support and feedback, I hope no one minds that I close this thread now as I think the message has got across on both sides.
     
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