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Feeling a little frustrated.

Discussion in 'General' started by joshtem, Jan 19, 2017.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. joshtem Trainee Engineer

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    So I have had Space Engineers for a long time now, But I can never really get into it. I love the idea I love the concept, I love getting creative. But for one reason or another I get always end up getting really frustrated and just stop playing the game for a while.

    My latest bout with SE went like this. I saw a YouTube video of Zed's Venture for Eve (I've always loved that ship) And I got all these brilliant ideas on how to do the inside, use scripts and drones etc etc. Zed hadn't completed the inside and hadn't done anything with the ship for a while so I figured I'd have a crack at it and see what I can come up with. Now I try as much as possible to play Vanilla as mods come and go. So i took out the mining lasers and was going to go with an piloted drone feature instead. So I loaded up the ship and went to get started on it. I wanted to see if it was possible to make the ship be able to go in and out of orbit. I noted it only had a 12 large Ion thrusters on the bottom and wanted to test if I could keep it hovering on a decent size planet. I slapped 24 atmo thrusters inside it as they don't damage blocks and went to test it. It sank like a rock. Now it should be noted that the thing weighs in at almost 20 million kg and that's an empty shell with no cargo. So I took to google to figure out how many thrusters i would need to keep say 25 million up I figure add a few million for interior stuff. Most calculators told me I'd need around 40......

    Now don't get me wrong I know that that is realistic "ish". But after a great deal of thought and watching a bunch of YouTube videos I noticed a trend. If your building a vanilla ship 90% of your ship (yes I'm exaggerating) will be thrusters, reactors and gyros. To me that doesn't really seem like "Fun". I know I could go with mods, but that to me seems like a cop out, Mods come and go and some die completely, others break because of updates. I could also fill the ship with thrusters, gyros and reactors just to make it fly. But then all the other ideas I had wouldn't have any room anymore. I am not trying to accomplish anything by posting this post, I'm not asking for change (though I think they could possibly "tweak" things a little) I'm not saying Keen have done a bad job. To be truthful I don't know exactly why I'm writing this, perhaps just to get the frustration of my chest.
     
  2. Tajin Apprentice Engineer

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    The question is, why does that ship have to able to land on planets?
    I don't think it was ever really meant for that, so don't get frustrated. :)
     
  3. joshtem Trainee Engineer

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    No i know it wasn't but I just wanted to see what would happen, it just served to highlight why I was frustrated this time is all.
     
  4. May Rears Apprentice Engineer

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    20 million kg ships are not meant to be used in atmospheres, especially that Venture as your experiment showed. For that matter I believe large grid ships are not meant to be used in atmospheres, the fact that they can be built and flown is one thing but there are players in SE that build 500,000 kg ships and ground vehicles but expect them to work like F-15s and Ferraris on planets.

    IF Keen rebalanced block weights for large blocks so we could make nimble large grids then what would be the point of small grids?
     
  5. Tajin Apprentice Engineer

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    Well how about making the ship able to break into two pieces.

    One part could hold all the equpment and drones and would simply stay in space.
    The other part would be just the bridge and some cargo containers, with enough thrust to land successfully.

    Could be an interesting build.
     
  6. joshtem Trainee Engineer

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    Good point I guess, but still feel as though you need far to many thrusters/reactors and gyro's (personal opinion) makes it less fun again just my opinion.
     
  7. May Rears Apprentice Engineer

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    That design works, ive created a capital vessel in survival with detachable command section that could land on planets and survey. Like any vessel that included any block having to line up with another block at some point Lord Clang pays a visit. At one point I managed to summon His Magnificence myself by using a connector to transfer goods from the command module to the main module which was also attached via merge block (back when I could actually get those damned things to work). Ejector/collector solved that one.
     
  8. Farindark Apprentice Engineer

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  9. Dax23333 Junior Engineer

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    657
    I recommend having a try with large hydrogen thrusters. They pack a huge punch. Though you'll probably still need quite a lot.
     
  10. Sir_Moodz Apprentice Engineer

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    I think thrusters are perfectly balanced
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. PLPM Junior Engineer

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    Issue is that most people slap the most durable blocks on their designs and add A LOT of heavy features, It´s possible to make large grid "light ships" that turn well, accelarate nicely and are not a 90% of main-duty blocks... I usually put crew quarters on my ships.

    However for this, you need to think outside of the box.

    This is for large grid, small grid is a lost cause as of now.
     
  12. CaD Apprentice Engineer

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    haha , yes your right , I also belive big ships should stay in orbit. BUT BUT BUT, until keen fixes it so I can carry my small ships around at sencible speeds. I`m afraid I shall continue to land my 100mk ships.
     
  13. Malware Master Engineer

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    Why can't you? Is it a MP desync problem? In which case I shall shut my trap :p
     
  14. CaD Apprentice Engineer

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    there is no way to merge small to large, and connectors go haywire at reasonable speeds.
     
  15. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,601
    I haven't seen any connector problems myself, which is why I ask if it's a multiplayer thing.

    There won't ever be a way to merge small grids to large, the data structures are incompatible - since they're actually the same data structure just with different scaling. The merge block shouldn't be used for docking anyway imo, that's not what it's for and the very way it works makes it cause trouble as it literally merges two grids into a single data structure. That's what we asked for when we got it, a way to remerge accidentally split grids so that's what they made. And why it's called a merge block and not a docking clamp :)
     
  16. CaD Apprentice Engineer

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    ahh, thankyou, pity tho, Ok then how are you expected to carry your favorite set of small grid craft from place to place? Cos I can`t even get to 100ms sometimes with any craft leg locked or port locked before it all goes up the swamy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017
  17. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,601
    Well you still haven't answered my question... :p Because if it happens in single player, it's really bad and needs to be reported and bumped or whatever fits. If it's multiplayer then it's desync and is well known and generally being worked on.
     
  18. CaD Apprentice Engineer

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    Sorry. YES Single player always. Probably mp as well, but I don`t do mp as its so unstable.
     
  19. PLPM Junior Engineer

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    I hope your 100mk ships don´t get much damage once they´re coming in hot.
     
  20. iN5URG3NT Senior Engineer

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    I got a roughly 18 million kg ship that works in atmospheres. Only in atmospheres. Arguably the best thing about planets is the engineering challenge of making something fly in a gravity well. If you build a ship for the purpose of flying in atmospheres, it doesn't have to be ugly, you just have to plan for the thrusters.
     
  21. Spets Master Engineer

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    3,209
    we have been asking for more powerful engines and gyroscopes and reactors for capital ships for ages...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  22. Robotnik V Apprentice Engineer

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    We've been asking for bigger thruster in general.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  23. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    You're going to need 60 atmospherics at 20,000,000kg. But that's NOT including the mass of the thrusters themselves. This will give you the ability to hover in the three major atmospheres. But you won't be able to exit the planet.

    You can't just slap thrusters on a ship and expect it to work in an atmosphere. You have to plan for them.

    You'd be better off using hydrogen thrusters on the exterior of the ship with enough hydrogen to get in and out of the atmosphere. It's not a failure of the game.
     
  24. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

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    the bigger the ship the more thrust needed
    the more thrust needed the more power needed
    the more power needed.......................the bigger the ship

    kinda feel like that needs to be SE chant.


    if you do have excel I made a nice little program that can safely estimate how many thrusters you'll be needing.
    it doesn't account for atmospherics thickness in the case of ion or atmospheric thrust nor fuel needed.
    but it can calculate how many thrusters you'll be needing for X weight of a ship while fighting Y amount of gravity


    all you need to know is gravity you'll be fighting and ship weight.

    http://forum.keenswh.com/threads/ma...ount-of-thrusters-needed-to-get-lift.7392010/


    [one extra thing....i wouldn't recommending trying to land a massive ship on a planet with a speed mod....otherwise you'll plow into the planet before the atmospherics thrusters can take effect]
     
    • Like Like x 1
  25. olimiller Trainee Engineer

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    I will suggest you to try with large hydrogen thrusters..
     
    • Like Like x 1
  26. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

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    2,225

    hydrogen thrusters are like that saying

    once you go __________ you never go back.

    like hydrogen thrusters just make ion look like crap.
    until of course you run out of fuel. :p
     
Thread Status:
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