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Gaming Logic?

Discussion in 'General' started by Spaceman Spiff, Sep 8, 2019.

  1. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    So, imagine I've got a ship that, for the purposes of this scenario, we'll call Silent Sphincter. My ship, Silent Sphincter, is loaded with ingots and powder and wafers of every type and, for completeness, gravel as well as an assembler of the most notable kind. The ship's mass is established based on its components of construction and the payload it carries. Now imagine that I decide to make additional components such as gravity components or thruster components or reactor components or detector components, or anything else for that matter. As the assembler assembles, I note with dismay as the Silent Sphincter's mass increases. It seems to me that this is a clear violation of the Law of Conservation of Mass, but I could be mistaken. Can someone explain this behavior to a lowly mechanical engineer that obviously has limited knowledge about these things? Inquiring minds need to know...
     
  2. KissSh0t Master Engineer

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    I would assume it's because the ingots and components have different mass values?
     
  3. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    But why? Mass is mass.
     
  4. KissSh0t Master Engineer

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    I know but this is a video game *shrugs*

    Why does a unfinished block and a finished block weigh the same? at least if what I have read is correct... I don't know, it's a video game :v
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Malware Master Engineer

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    It really is as simple as @KissSh0t says. It's because the definition of the component(s) required doesn't have the same mass as the definition of the finished product. Or ore vs ingot, even. This is a flaw that permeates the entire factory system of SE. I mean, "but this is a video game" really does apply here, because it's simply a matter of code. It's not like the "ore" is actually used to make the "ingot" etc. It's just one one set of objects get removed from a list, and another set created and added to a list. The relation is an illusion. So if the definitions of those objects does not match, you get the discrepancy you see...



    The unfinished block vs finished block is apparently a performance problem. Updating mass values is supposedly the hitch here. Which is quite ironic given the issue being discussed... :p
     
  6. Dax23333 Junior Engineer

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    There are all sorts of weird things with cargo mass, for example when you move cargo around it moves the mass into different containers the centre of mass changes but the ship does not move. Can be used to make a kind of drive system where you caterpiller along with a piston moving a cargo container.

    Would be nice if the mass values at least lined up so you diddn't create mass out of nowhere when assembling things though. That would just be a matter of changing the mass values of each component. Could be a pain to work out though.
     
  7. ShadedMJ Apprentice Engineer

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    If that bothers you, don't try to refine iron ore with a refinery that has 4 yield modules....
    (for those of you wondering, the max 100% ore-to-ingot ratio doesn't apply any more, so you get more output ingots than input ore)
     
  8. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    (I was the one who also brought up the question about increasing mass of refined ingots beyond the original mass of the ore when yield modules are used.)

    It's not a case of being bothered; I'm just wondering why.
     
  9. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    I suspect just getting stuff to work meant not sweating the details. It's possible (but I hope not likely) that they thought we wouldn't notice.

    It is one of those things people will point out when someone calls this an engineering game or a game that strives for realism. Personally, I hope they straighten it out. Mass already just barely matters. It should matter as much as the engine can allow.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

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    @ShadedMJ - That is what Keen made the yield modules for, when they released them they said they were for gaining more ingots from the ore, so that is not a flaw that is how they were intended to work. :)
     
  11. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    Hey, it is what it is and I factor this behavior into my gameplay. I was just wondering.
     
  12. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    You obviously didn't read the warning label: Caution. Close scrutiny may cause brain explosion.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    Yeah...well...yeah. I forgot to check my brain at the door.
     
  14. ShadedMJ Apprentice Engineer

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    Yes, that is why yield module were made. BUT up until the last few updates the maximum was getting 100 iron ingots for 100 iron ore, and that was okay. NOW it is getting more ingots than ore, so your ship __increases__ mass by refining ore. That is dumb.
     
  15. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

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    I rarely use the Yield modules because there are mods that are of better use. When I have used the modules I was pretty sure the ingot output was greater than the ore you had, I could be wrong.
     
  16. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    Yup, I posted the yield results here: https://forum.keenswh.com/threads/did-you-know.7403265/
     
  17. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    Keen has some clean-up to do as far as the formulas for converting ingots to components. They are also missing some blocks from the assembler list the last time I checked. Also, gas has no mass even though the ice does. Conservation of matter... maybe that will be a DLC thing. ;)
     
  18. Sirhan Blixt Apprentice Engineer

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    Everything matters. You matter.

    Unless you get multiplied by c. Then you energy.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1