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Goodbye Earth!

Discussion in 'General' started by Chap, Apr 25, 2019.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    2,934
    Well, connectors were intended to connect floating grids to static grids i.e. connecting your ship/drone to a base. Landing gear was simply a way to stick one grid to another, even if the other grid was a voxel. Keen did tweak them to the point they are guaranteed not to let loose no matter what, but that doesn't mean your ship won't just rip away during a violent maneuver. Only a merge can guarantee that won't happen.

    Someone modded Keen's sliding door airlock to make the door side un-mergeable. Brilliant. There are, in fact, several modded airlock door blocks that feature one side that cannot be merged with. That should be standard practice for Keen and anyone else making a airlock door block.
    --- Automerge ---
    There probably is, and it probably doesn't work well, and it really wouldn't solve the problem. As long as the grids are separate they will behave according to their own weight and thrust vectors. Currently, the only way to get two grids to cooperate is to make them one grid.
     
  2. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    I have only one word to say to that: "Docking Connector"
     
  3. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    You know that's two words, right?
     
  4. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    If you say it really quickly it'll sound like one word.
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
  5. Chap Trainee Engineer

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    Hey All!
    Some tests done in creative with a friend! Everything is working ! The ship is attached via the connector .. and I tinkered a "security" in order to be sure (or almost) that everything stays in place with a mergeblock! :D
    I post pictures soon!
    We have not yet done the maneuver on our server, the ship is still on the ground (too much construction to do here below) Ahah :p
     
  6. Oliepolie Trainee Engineer

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    10
    To the OP, use this spreadsheet created by a god of a man:
    Here
    It has a thrust calculator you can use next time along with a whole lot of other things.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,510
    The wikis should just close down imo. Nobody seems interested in keeping them updated these days, or at least not enough to actually be useful.
    --- Automerge ---
    Fair warning. That's not what merge blocks are intended for, they're for permanent merging not docking. The second you start messing around with ship names and such, you'll find that it gets lost as the smallest grid is actually destroyed and its blocks added to the largest grid. Also, if you ever start using scripts, there are more issues as the scripts cannot distinguish between the ships - because from the viewpoint of the game, there is no distinction. If it works for you then fantastic, but you should be aware of this.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. Chap Trainee Engineer

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    14
    Hi!

    I use the merge block because it seems to me to be a stronger physical link.
    Coupled with the connector, that seems to work. No worries about the trip in the test phase, I'm waiting to see during the real takeoff ^^

    I've forget the pictures... :(

    @Oliepolie Thanks for this spreadsheet ! :D
     
  9. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,510
    @Chap The connector alone is by far strong enough. It doesn't let go. The game simply doesn't work that way.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Roxette Senior Engineer

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    1,358
    Agreed. It's just a shame that Keen apparently can't afford to dedicate any time to producing any useful documentation for the game, but to be fair that's a very common problem with indie games generally.
     
  11. Chap Trainee Engineer

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    @Malware Yes ... I think the stall of my last ship was chosen for me! Ahah :p

    @Roxette Can not we update ourselves? We are creating a common topic / file based on our experience and what is being said about the SE world :D
     
  12. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,510
    Sorry?
     
  13. Chap Trainee Engineer

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    14
    The loss of my old freighter (under the same conditions) move my choice toward more security
     
  14. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    2,934
    Well, you can't get a stronger link than merged ;). However, @Malware points out just some of the risks involved with merging ships. The connector does not contribute to the connection when the grids are merged (in fact, it's almost impossible to get vanilla connectors to line up when you are also merging the grids.

    There currently is no good solution. If you connect ships they will fight each other while flying. Connectors were intended to connect a moving grid to a static one. If you merge ships, the smaller ship will have an identity crisis when you un-merge because the merge block was intended to only merge. I make very large ships so I chose the merge route because when the grids are merged (and in my case this usually means several grids) all the gyros and thrust cooperate and main cockpit means Main Cockpit. Merging floating grids is risky and I benefit from playing SP Creative. A botched merge on a server in survival would pretty much mean the end of playing. Perhaps forever.

    The thing about merge blocks and connectors is that they were each intended for one use, but Keen itself promoted the other uses. That encouragement has created an expectation that we should be able to do this stuff, but we can't. Not really. Therefore, I conclude that Keen now owes us a Standard Docking Collar that will allow two floating grids to operate as one at will.

    We wanted planets and you gave us planets, sooo...
     
  15. Chap Trainee Engineer

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    14
    Some pictures of the ship:
    The ship [​IMG] [​IMG]
    The small ship: [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    And we had a little problem right now..
    We play in solar system in survival.
    Our server have some latency somes moments.
    I just used the tool ALtGr + F10 to remove some grids and ships NPC, but arrived on the tab "planets" there is more than the Earth!
    I don't have touch this option, but we have lost the other planets :(
    The sky is too empty now... [​IMG]


    Someone like an idea of the problem? :(

    EDIT:

    How to publish pictures? x)
     
  16. Roxette Senior Engineer

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    1,358
    Upload them to a free image hosting website eg imgur.com and post the link
     
  17. SileniusFF Apprentice Engineer

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    108
    Just a quick note to OP.
    While Chicken Nuggets spreadsheet was very useful tool for any space engineer, it was last updated on April 2018
    and uses old block data. Among other things thrust values have changed since survival update (20% increase).
    You can of course update max thrust values manually to get thurst calculator to work correctly again.
     
  18. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    1,360
    Was it an across-the-board thrust increase of 20%? I though some thrusters were reduced (e.g., ion thrusters near a planet).
     
  19. Chap Trainee Engineer

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    For now my biggest problem is the disappearance of the solar system! haha x)
     
  20. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    1,360
    Maybe you entered a parallel universe! Cool!!
     
  21. SileniusFF Apprentice Engineer

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    Haven't checked all the thrusters so don't really know, 20% increase was mentioned in patch notes i think.
    Hydrogen thrusters certainly have more thrust after update. Just few days ago did some calculations on LG large thruster which is now 7200 kN. It used to be around 6500 kN if i recall.

    No idea if ion thruster effectiveness in atmosphere was changed. Comparison would need measurements at exact
    same sea level between older and current versions of game and i'm too lazy for that ;)
     
  22. Thrak Junior Engineer

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    535
    Or allow one to use the existing Remote Control block to slave one ship to another.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  23. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

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    2,934
    Never thought of that. You might be on to something.
     
  24. Thrak Junior Engineer

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    Obviously it would be great if some function like that would be available in remote blocks (or some other block) as a vanilla feature. I like the remote block idea because, if antennae were involved, one might be able to fly multiple ships in a convoy from a single flight seat.

    But I'll also ask the obligatory, "does anyone know if something like that could be scripted?" I, of course, know squat about scripting.... An example scenario: Two ships connect via connector only. You get in the pilot seat of the primary ship, activate the script, which causes your thruster firing, gyro roll, and dampener settings (essentially, flight functions) to be mirrored by the secondary ship. Of course, you'd have to line up in matching orientation... I think.

    Again, no clue if this is achievable via scripting. I'm more of a big picture guy.
     
  25. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

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    1,360
    Oh, how I wish...
     
  26. Silvrav Trainee Engineer

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    But there is a bug that almost mimics SI. I have a mining ship that if I dock it via connectors and don't immediately switch of the thrusters, it will eventually tear itself apart and be flung across the planet. Switching of the thrusters of the miner Or the gyros of the mothership stops it from being flunged
     
  27. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,510
    The only way I can see that being possible is if the connectors themselves gets damaged somehow, for instance if the two connectors are so close any bugged movement from the connected ship causes it to phase into the other connector, causing collision damage. Could probably also be solved by locking at the furthest distance.

    Still seems iffy to me, but if you say it happens, it happens. Probably multiplayer though, am I right?

    At any rate I wouldn't mind structural integrity to be a thing in general...
     
  28. Oskar1101 Apprentice Engineer

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    226
    It doesn't sound like a bug at all. You just described thruster damage feature. Thrusters are damaging connector or blocks nearby then connection is lost and ships smashes against eachother. That's why you better turn off dampeners on parked ship just like in real life. When capsule is docked to iss, it has turned off engines. When aircraft lands on carrier it shuts down engines etc.

    Also from what I know connectors and landing gear have infinite locking power like pistons and rotors has when you used safety lock before the physics patch removed that function few months ago. They locks two physical bodies into one and there is no way to disconnect them by any external force like inertia or acceleration. Only damaging connector/landing gear removes connection.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
  29. Silvrav Trainee Engineer

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    81
    Ya, I will do some more testing when I am back in town and share the BP's if you want to play around with it, it was MP though so that does answer a lot of questions :p


    Nope, its not thruster damage, thrusters are nowhere near the connectors
     
  30. bigbangnet Apprentice Engineer

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    Question to @op, why aren't you turning off your small ship if its connected using a dock and you're using another ship to "transport" it off the planet or somewhere else ? That what I do most of the time. If I don't use it, turn it off. besides, while its turned off, that ship wont have ANY effect on the one your currently piloting it.
     
Thread Status:
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