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How is it possible to grind Cargo Ships down with a stationary platform grinder?

Discussion in 'Survival' started by BrickVoid, Oct 2, 2014.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. BrickVoid Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    61
    I normally play Lone Survivor and grind down Cargo Ships once I capture them, but this was getting boring and tedious, so I figured I'd try grinding a Cargo Ship down on "Easy Start 1", where you have three (not two as it states in the description) of small ships and a large ship.

    I finally captured the Private Sail (I think that's the lowest tier of Cargo Ship if I'm not mistaken.) and drove it back to base and then tried to get it towards the grinders so I could actually grind the thing down with them.

    Fail. I tried:

    1. Attaching the small welding ship using it's landing gear with the Private Sail stationary and with thrusters on. The thing wouldn't budge an inch!

    2. I tried the Fighter Ship with the Private Sail's thrusters ground down to beyond the point where they actually operated. The Private Sail tended to act like floating space debris does, and just drifted around and I couldn't actually maneuver the fighter near enough to it to lock it's landing gear onto it.

    So my question is this: What does one actually have to do in order to set up the aforementioned "Easy Start 1" scenario so that capturing and grinding down ships with the platform grinder would actually be feasible?

    If you could manage it, I'd appreciate a 30 minute video of just exactly how you accomplish this and the steps needed to do it outlined in easy to understand English terminology. You can leave out how to actually capture a Private Sail, I do that with my Astronaut all the time! :D NOTE: It has to be for single-player, as I usually play alone and like it that way.

    Cheers ...

    BrickVoid
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2014
  2. Cyber Cheese Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    457
    Hi Brick, I cannot make you a video, but here are some suggestions:

    1) push the sail slowly into the grinders using a large ship
    2) attach more thrusters to a small ship until you have at least 11 small thrusters pushing it, and turn OFF the sail's dampers
    3) build a lever or elevator type structure using a rotor or piston, so that it slowly pushes Tue sail into the grinders
    4) attach an artificial mass block to the sail so the station's gravity pulls it into the grinders -- use a low grav gen setting to have safe acceleration
    5) merge a large ship to the grinder contraption, cut the grinder portion away so that the ship and grinder form a new station that doesn't overlap the asteroid, then convert to ship--now you can grind the sail using your new large grinder ship
    6) build a small grinder ship from the parts available on the station's grinding pad
     
  3. Ortikon Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    338
    I found the initial grinder is more of an "idea" for the player (as well as the materials to do so) than it is a completed piece.
    Set up a crane of sorts. a piston pointing downwards into the center of the grinders with a piece of landing gear on it. Set it up so when fully extended the landing gear cannot be harmed by the grinders.
    Park ships onto it and push those potatoes through the fry press!
    Now when you catch a ship, make a small grinder ship that just cuts chunks off and carts them to the grinder. In order to make it worthwhile, expand on the existing grinder system or remove it all together and make a larger one elsewhere.
     
  4. BrickVoid Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    61
    Thanks for the replies, but I really think Space Engineers needs either a sci-fi block called an attractor beam, which would use energy to draw ships and their associated blocks to it and control their direction using a gyroscope, computers and a display to handle grabbing objects and manipulating them, or a metal rope, a winch, and a grappling hook with a magnet on it, to draw objects into the grinder properly.

    Personally, I would favor the tractor beam as it would allow a reasonable amount of energy expenditure to control and automate manipulation of objects into grinders, even if it is easy to do. But before I go off and make a suggestion I'd like to know if anyone would favor the grappling hook and winch idea, and if so, why?

    Also, yes I did consider the artificial mass block but discarded it early on because I don't know what happens to the remaining blocks if the artificial mass block is ground off? About the rotors and pistons idea, that seems fairly solid but appears to have problems with designing something that would be able to handle ships of varying size, even assuming I could chop them up with a grinder into smaller pieces.

    A lot of the cargo ships would require a vast grinder array, or at least a 5x5 square of grinders because the sections that make up most of them seem to be three to five blocks wide and mostly rectangular in shape. I might try adapting the existing platform setup to deal with that, don't know where I'll get something that could easily section ships into grindable sized chunks. Is it possible to have a grinder sitting on a piston so you can cut deeper into a ship to make sectioning it up easier? If I'm grinding something a lot of the time if it gets knocked or bumped, it starts acting like flying space debris. A door rather spectacularly wanted to make it's own voyage of discovery once it broke free of something I was grinding, didn't even think I was touching the door at the time but it wanted a one-way trip to nowhere!

    Cheers ...

    BrickVoid
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2014
  5. merak Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    149
    i Always merge it with a station block Before grinding it down this means no movement at all (granted i have yet to try a contraption and are still grining it down manualy as it is hard to capsure things for me (Always die ;) )
     
  6. Disposadwarf Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    452
    a good idea is to get the rail mod, and put a crane on it. attatch the ship u want to grind with landing gears to lock it down and gind it away with the crane.
     
  7. Korov Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    24
    Pushing a ship into a set of stationary grinders with a tug can be difficult. I've had much more success docking the target to a station (via merge block, landing gears, etc), powering it down, and grinding away with ship mounted grinders.
     
  8. theAnthonyGrey Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    59
    There are a number of ways to salvage/grind a large ship.
    1. small ship grinder with connector
    2. Large ship main ship equipped with grinders (conveys directly to cargo/assembler)
    3. Station grinder
    One of the aspects of the game is figuring out ways to do things. I would have never thought to grind a ship into pieces and I won't do it until I think it's a better technique. You kept saying "it starts acting like space debris" well, at that point, it is space debris. Without thrusters and a gyroscope all items will continue in inertia.

    As for your sci-fi tractor beam - that'll never become a part of the vanilla SE. But it could be a mod.
    Grappling hook - You could design one.

    When I read the title I thought this was about an automatic grind station. I'll be uploading a video and adding it to the workshop later.
     
  9. MegaMiner Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    625
    I use a pusher ship to push the cargo ship into the grinder array.

    [​IMG]

    I have made several experimental automagic grinders, with various success.

    Pistons are currently too buggy to make a trash compactor style, they break more often than not.

    The most success I have had is with a rotor based style. The problem is that the rotors minimum rotational velocity is too high for large arrays, you have to manually edit the sandbox file and set the <TargetVelocity>0.0001</TargetVelocity>

    However, while this design works, it creates a lot of lag.

    For realistic survival 1-1-1 servers, I'd recommend much smaller arrays or the admin wil probably delete your station, FOR GOOD REASON :D

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 3, 2014
  10. Kuu Lightwing Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,503
    my eyes...
     
  11. NathanTheSpaceSurvivor Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    228
    Things you need:

    1x merge block on the ship

    1x merge block (on a station), 1x solar panel to power the merge block, if no sunlight, then 1x small reactor and uranium.

    Merge the two together, and then scrap the cargo ship. You now need both to be on or else merge blocks won't work.
     
  12. ghpstage Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    143
    I'm not a fan of the station grinders, especially for survival. They have to be enormous to be effective, and are very, very costly, requiring both the grinders and the additional conveyors needed to use them. They are more for playing around in Creative or perhaps for an 'end game' in survival.

    The method with the best potential for grinding purposes right now lies in automated small ship drones.

    By the way, Chains, winches and the like have been built before, used in various devices, and could I suppose be used for this, though I haven't seen it attempted yet.
    As has been said, the tractor beam idea isn't going anywhere when it comes to the unmodded game. Its been suggested numerous times before, its just too sci-fi-ey.
     
  13. MegaMiner Junior Engineer

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    625
  14. Zerat_kj Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    29
    I used a small ship that had 1 2 big thrusters in every direction, along withabout 9 landing gears and 20 - 25 gyros. If the thing I wanted to move had thrusters off i could move it quite easy.. but needed some getting used to Did not move the largest ships .. I cut them to smaller pieces and then on grinder array of 54 grinders in a checkerdflag firmation like this; ^ - conveyor, > - grinder
    ^>^>^>^>^>^>
    >^>^>^>^>^>^
    ^>^>^>^>^>^>
    >^>^>^>^>^>^
    ^>^>^>^>^>^>
    >^>^>^>^>^>^
    ^>^>^>^>^>^>
    >^>^>^>^>^>^
     
  15. kittle Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,086
    Make yourself a grid of grinders like others have suggested - I find a 7x7 grid works good (the larger the better). Hook them up to some conveyors and Large cargo containers.

    For the private sail... get in the cockpit, fly it towards your array & grind off the solars -- while you are in the cockpit. Once the solars are gone position the ship above your grinder array, turn dampers OFF, and set it moving SLOWLY (0.1 m/s) towards your grinder array.
    Hop out & watch the light show.

    For a spawn ship:
    Move the gyro and reactor to the 'front' of the ship.
    position the spawn ship so the back is facing your grinder array, and just fly it backwards into the array. when it gets to the medbay or grav generator, turn dampers off, set it moving SLOWLY and hop out.

    You can also make a holder arm with a rotor on 1 end and landing gear on the other, dock the ship on the landing gear and use the rotor arm to push the ship into your grinder array.
    But with the problems around landing gear and pistons this doesnt work as well as it used to.

    Using a merge block on a pusher ship can work too
     
  16. kristakis Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    607
    When I was a noob I made a pit and used to push ships into it:



    Before factions came along I would build a room with moving walls of grinders large enough to park a starter ship in - I lost all the video of that in a recent disk crash sorry.

    Now I just merge the victim into a station and grind it down with a ship. I cringe at my noob grinder pit now - so wasteful and lag inducing.
     
  17. Troa Barton Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    119
    Watch this
    http://youtu.be/uknkeCCHMFI
    Great SE series
     
  18. PaladinX333 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    234
    In single player it is fairly easy if your tug is designed right and you fly it properly. The tug should be heavy, so I build mine with heavy armor blocks purely for the mass. The trick in maneuvering a ship with a tug is to grab onto it squarely, so you are lined up with it's center of mass in two planes. I have shoved dozens and dozens of cargo ships into a great wall of grindage with much success.


    In games where I do more piracy and little or no mining, I find them to be rather cost effective. You only need one row of conveyer blocks on the back to connect the rows of grinders together. (The grinders connect to each other in one plane.) It the era of welding ships they are very quick to build too. I have built several grinding walls in survival. I think they are quite efficient and worth building.
     
  19. 4o Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    316
    i do not use a tug. i have a suicide wall of grinders. correctly position the ship you want to grind, turn off inertia dumpers and give it a speed of 0.5-1 m/s. it will slowly drift into grinders and eventually kill itself. it works for mining and commercial ship. have not tried military: do mines blow off when effected by station grinders?

    you should not worry about ship falling into pieces. most (if not all) station block will not collide if placed on neighbor slots. so if ship falls into 2 pieces, then both pieces retain their speed towards grinders.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2014
  20. Morilibus Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    199
    I wouldn't do it that way...wait...
    Hello Troa Barton, and Thank You :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2014
  21. MegaMiner Junior Engineer

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    625
  22. Xakthos Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    220
    What I did was build a large bay and then put the ship on bottom of it with a rotor/piston system at top that slowly lowers a spinning grinder system. Think of it as a reverse blender. Worked out pretty well with minimal parts to build initially I found. Could be made of cheap blocks. the hardest part was building a way to get the ship in there without it banging around if I didn't want/couldn't pilot it. So I built a piston landing gear system that the pistons extend out until the landing gear is out in front of the bay then pull it back. So the inital lining up has to still be done but then the landing gear will take it from there.
     
  23. Evil_Tom Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    80
    You could create a giant box to put the ship into with one opening one side that can be closed, like a door.

    Two of the sites then piston together and they have grinders on. This would slowly grind away the ship and you wouldn't really have to worry about it floating off as it's within a confined space. Will take a lot of resources to make all the grinders and you'd be limited in size of what you can fit through the door.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2014
  24. Xakthos Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    220
    Modify the box idea. Two pistons to get the reach (preferably with the piston mod but otherwise you can chain them together) with a rotor on the end of them rotating a row of grinders so that it makes a circular sweep. One row of grinders, 2 rotors, X pistons and some walls.
     
  25. Evil_Tom Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    80
    There are some disadvantages to your idea. You might end up knocking the ship around a bit too much. Also because you're essentially going to create a circle, you may have parts where the grinders won't reach and you'll end up with stray parts. To mitigate this I'm sure you could have a 'cylindrical' shaped box rather than a cuboid one.

    Yours does have advantage. You can create a single rotating arm of grinders, which will take much less resources to build than an entire wall.
     
  26. MichaelC Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    593
    you guys are over complicating this

    just a large platform of grinders then send the cargo ship with damps off at about 0.4 m/s hop out of the seat and enjoy
     
  27. Xakthos Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    220
    What I did was have the grinder rotor come down from the ceiling so that parts are pushed towards the floor. With it going at minimum speed it seemed to get everything with nothing being knocked around. It helps if you can stabilize the ship; a lock mechanism in the floor or as my initial design the side to pull the ship into place worked decently. I found that as long as the box closed that out of 10 various cargo ships (didn't try more for testing and didn't have some of the models so couple are repeats of same design) that no spare parts were ever ejected out of the system, lost or otherwise left un-grinded. The trick to it is slow and enclosed with the grinders stopping just shy of the edges and floor.

    Downsides:
    1. It may not work well in a moving ship (where I really want it in a mobile mother
    2. ship).
    3. Some of the cargo antennas/solar really have to be manually ground off to keep from having an unreasonably large holding cell.
    4. Putting the ship into position is tricky as I built around concept of the ship is powered off (to simulate unstopped traps that restrict thrusters, and damaged vessels) so getting it in with a tug or other device can be problematic.
    5. It is a large box. That is space that you'll have to move around or otherwise work around without many other redeeming qualities unless you do a rotor/welder swap system (not sure how to get that to work, the directions require welders from all sides really for anything big.
     
  28. Smoo Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    153
    That new rotor opens up a LOT of possibilities. Like a line of pistons, attached to a rotor pushing a sweep of grinders. Rotors can actually be gentle, so you rough-position with the pistons, and then stop them and sweep the grinder. Entire thing empties into storage boxes.

    To use, you merge the target into a station, then take swipes at it with the grinders. Once a swipe completes, you stop the rotor, push the rotor assembly forward with pistons, and swipe again, until the target is parts. Slower possibly, but fire-and-forget, since no matter what is in the way (heavy armor, slow-grinding blocks), the grinders won't get smashed in with piston-level force, just a rotor that you can use more gently.

    ...Until the pistons spaz out, anyway. :p


    My current setup is a 25x25 block wall, with every fourth block a grinder. I've had more success with merge-blocking a small tug in, because gyros seem to go NUTS when they lose power. Takes freaking forever to feed it a military transporter, mostly just waiting.
     
  29. Evil_Tom Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    80
    I had a play on creative to do something alongside my idea (a large box with two piston ooperated grinder walls that 'squish' the ship). I'll share it later if I can on steam or just some screenshots.

    I found that even though I had a piston operated blast door it isn't wide enough to take in even private sails. So I made it taller, so I can rotate the ship. Even then I had to cut off some of the solar sails to get it in. I need to make it EVEN taller (about 20 large blocks high) to at least take in a ship

    The size of the construct is far too big to do in survival reasonably. I had nearly 500 grinders.

    Something that I did notice was that you could turn off the ship and power once it was inside so you didn't have to hold it in place. That's handy.
     
  30. TehRoach Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    258
    This screenshot is from awhile ago and I am just grinding the yellow ship

    but this is my solution to grinding ships in the same scenario
    [​IMG]
     
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