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How much can I build?

Discussion in 'General' started by Lupinemaxx, Apr 13, 2018.

  1. Lupinemaxx Trainee Engineer

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    Not sure if it's been asked before. I didn't see anything recently but I wonder just how much can I get away with building throughout this world at the moment. Not considering our systems (which far surpass requirements) or mods, just how full can I make this world before it's bogged down to unacceptable frame rates and performance? The wife and I have been in a world since December and have constructed a dozen 'settlements' throughout. They are kept to a smallish size, 6-8 structures and bound to a particular area in circumference. Our settlements are spaced fair distances. Is there a limit to how far we can continue? What's the absolute limit?
     
  2. Malware Master Engineer

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    How long is a string?

    It all does depend on the systems. There's no way to separate a question of performance from the systems they run on.
     
  3. Lupinemaxx Trainee Engineer

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    Sorry if I didn't make it clear. I build my own machines and yet I don't know zip of the jargon. I'm not concerned about the performance, got that part licked. I wanted to know how much building this world can take before it becomes overburdened with data and clunky. For example - I read Bethesda games can become clunky if stored items pile up throughout the map and building in FO4 doesn't necessarily effect lag. Just wondering if anyone has gotten to the point (even on a superlative machine) where they thought 'man, I built too much'.

    I get it that performance does matter - thanks to Fallout 4. It's the only game I've got that gives me any trouble at all. Come June I'll build another machine, the weakest link being ~only~ a GTX 1060 6gb card I bought in November. Some things still don't add up though. We have two identical machines in the house the only difference being the GPU RAM. Mine is 6gb, hers is 3gb. Yet, she still gets a better FPS than I. Only thing I can think is that my PC carries the mods. Both accounts are even subscribed to all the same mods the thought being parity. What little I understand about hardware I know that much less of software. I get it that the game is only just past half way for development. I understand optimization is usually last on the to do for the team.

    Overall, I would say my question is focused on - just how far can I push the software in it's current state?
     
  4. doncdxx Apprentice Engineer

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    The thing about early access games is that there hasn't been enough testing per patch to give even a vague performance expectation. I recommend you run the world to death and report your findings to the community and include hardware specs.

    Is there a difference in resolution settings? My wife runs her games at 1600x900 and I run at 1920x1080 (our monitors' native resolutions) and that slightly lower resolution gives her slightly higher framerates. There are a number of small factors that can make small differences in performance. Enough small factors can add up to a big differences that are blatantly apparent.
     
  5. Malware Master Engineer

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    @Lupinemaxx But that's what I am saying. How much you can push the software depends on your hardware. There's a direct link. This is also a type of game that will always have high performance requirements and the more you build the heavier it will run... no matter how much time the devs spend on the game. Remember, everything is dynamic here.

    People are "building too much" all the time. People are building single ships that are "too much".
     
  6. Lupinemaxx Trainee Engineer

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    I said 'optical drive' but meant 'solid state' drive. It's on my mind....the DVD in my current PC crapped out recently.
     
  7. Tenzo Apprentice Engineer

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    How much can you build in ME?

    That's a good question...

    I think you can build a lot more than you can in Space Engineers.

    Now might be different, but at launch, I think they projected actual voxels that were textured with stone, because I would get artifact lines on my stone walls from a distance that was the same artifact that was present on distant voxel mountains.

    So... later they changed the building a bit, so they might not be using projected anything just 3D models... Or they fixed that artifact line not to appear on voxels at all.

    Anyhow, I think you can build up a LOT of density in Medieval Engineers before you start to notice anything bogging things down (if at all). It all comes down to view distance though. Set that too high, and you might run into problems but if you get a nice balance, gameplay is pretty smooth all-around (regarding constructions). Granted, I have not really built more than a large fort, and a settlement myself. But I am making my observations based on running through forests without any blocks around. If you don't have the right setting for your system, you will get frame rate issues. That's how I calibrated my settings.

    Once you get something that both looks good and runs well, you shouldn't run into any problems with displaying actual blocks even if you have a high density of them. You'll have more issues processing all the trees and foliage in the forests than you will ever have running around a dense space filled with blocks. (Why? It's a lot more CPU intensive to display polygons than it is to display an evenly distributed voxel volume. The trees are 3D. There is a high chance from my observations that a high percentage of blocks are actually voxel based volume.)

    Blocks as voxel projections, as opposed to Space Engineers where you progressively build in a higher and higher polygon count through 3D blocks, makes sense, because buildings don't move. They stay stationary until something knocks them down. (Ships fly, do other things.) But buildings in ME? Sure!

    Balance your rig for how much draw distance you can get away with in forests - no frame rate chopping or pauses when terrain/trees/stuff loads in and I think you'll have no problem with building an obscene amount of stuff.

    Dense or spread out. You should not run into any issues. My rig at launch was far weaker than it is now, and the blocks/projected voxels/whatever they were, ran very very well. Silky smooth. No problems at all. It all came to a slide show when things came crashing down, but that's another story. (I suspect that's when pieces are actually converted to 3D models in some form.)

    See the thing about voxels is, they don't care about polygon distribution because it is all even. So you can have all sort of density built in, but it won't matter if it is voxel based because you are dealing with volume, not a polygon count stemming from 3D models (that just progressively adds up). It's all about how much of that volume you can display though, hence the view distance calibration.

    And on that note, if you dig too much and mess around with the voxels in the ground too much, I have heard that's where actual slowdown occurs (early access, plenty of time to work that stuff out) - but I've never heard it related to display of actual buildings/blocks themselves.

    Just watch your digging. Don't use the landscape stakes to level ground if you don't have to.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  8. Ghostickles Senior Engineer

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    Start by trying to cover a claim in blocks, then do the whole region, if it still wont die cover the planet.
     
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  9. MaxTheBuilder Trainee Engineer

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    Build until the ME Gods tell you "No More" or you become one. We had an RP server prior to the last main patch with 4 kingdoms going. Each Kingdom was different in how they were set up. One had a massive castle with several outlining buildings, one was a Walled Sandstone town 2 claim block wide 3 deep with 12 shops, bank, trading post, a keep, and a gold mind, another was subterranean with a tunnel network covering 8 x 8 claim blocks. Mine was a standard Village with a keep in the center, Stone quarry, lumber mill, smithy, Inn, Tanners shop, fish market, Housing, 4 shops, Flour mill, ore processing center, trading post, stone wall around the whole place with 4 entry gates and towers and a two tired lake with dam and spillway. All this and it does not include all the mines for gold, silver, stone, iron, copper, tin and such.

    I think that's why this game is so enjoyable, it allows you to build and build without the fear of running into issues. The only issues we have ran into thus far are Mod they did (or were not) updated and bugs not allowing log in. Other than that, once in game it was game on, go forth and build till you wore your mouse button out. I don't know any other game that gives you this much freedom and creativity. So between what Keen gives us as a baseline game and what the Awesome Moders add, there is no limit to how much, at least so far.
     
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  10. Lupinemaxx Trainee Engineer

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    Malware is right about one thing - Hardware is elemental. I'm running ME on a 2012 vintage Dell that can no further be upgraded (more like not worth it).

    The LOD settings for distance is painfully obvious especially in the above mentioned Fallout 4 as a grand example.

    Mods are lag-makers in any game. I had that epiphany 15 years ago with Flight Sim 2004.

    I have tried adjustments to the distance setting with no noticeable effect. Hell, I've tried dozens of settings adjustments and really haven't noticed a difference. I am set to 1600x900 and refuse to tolerate less, so I might just be my own worst enemy.

    Max - I do have a save-game on hold at the moment. I'm not sure it how compares to your 4 kingdoms in volume but it is fairly 'populated' and widespread all over that world. It contains at least a dozen and a half mock settlements/towns diversified in design based on demographics. Not to mention side projects along roadways of houses, suburbs if such a thing can be applied, three fully functional farms/foundries and the expected myriad of raked over mine locations. 24 mods. Might just be the machine in this case but at the biggest farm in that world the frame rate bobbles between 15-20 FPS. A steady 30-40 FPS would be fine.....even dipping into the high 20's. Below that......it gets dicey. That save game will hopefully be revisited after I build my new desktop. June can't come soon enough.

    I do fully intend to push the game as far as it will go. That is after all, part of the enjoyment provided by Keen in this case. As soon as I can raise the ceiling hardware-wise, I suppose it can only get better and development progresses.

    I'm appreciating all the comments. Keep 'em coming. Just goes to show my 50 year old ass still has much to learn.
     
  11. Malware Master Engineer

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    8,592
    Holy crap, I need help... I have no idea how but I read that as "I'm running (Windows) Millennium Edition"... in the Medieval Engineers forum no less... :D
     
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  12. Tenzo Apprentice Engineer

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    What's the Windows Millennium Edition? :D
     
  13. Lupinemaxx Trainee Engineer

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    No joke......If it was at all possible to run today's software using the wonderfully simple interface of Windows 3.11, I'd do it in a second. Fortunately I never had the displeasure of being tortured by the boat anchor of the OS known as Millennium. As I understand it, Millennium Edition was the "Star Trek 5" of Microsoft OS's.