Welcome to Keen Software House Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the KSH community.
  1. You are currently browsing our forum as a guest. Create your own forum account to access all forum functionality.

[HS] Hyperion Systems - Next Generation Ships - Wildcat MLRS Corvette Available Now!

Discussion in 'Community Creations' started by iN5URG3NT, May 3, 2015.

?

What Ship Class should I concentrate on next? (See post on page 3 for details)

  1. UFAC

    1 vote(s)
    1.3%
  2. FAC (Includes Refits)

    1 vote(s)
    1.3%
  3. Corvettes (Includes Refits)

    10 vote(s)
    12.8%
  4. Frigates

    5 vote(s)
    6.4%
  5. Destroyers

    12 vote(s)
    15.4%
  6. Ships of the Line

    8 vote(s)
    10.3%
  7. Carriers

    25 vote(s)
    32.1%
  8. Stations

    17 vote(s)
    21.8%
  9. More small ships please. Large grid is expensive!

    12 vote(s)
    15.4%
  10. No more warships! Build more Standard Interplanetary Mining stuff!

    11 vote(s)
    14.1%
Multiple votes are allowed.
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Timberwolf Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    246
    It was the pic I had on hand. I probably gave it a better paintjob at some point.

    It's not supposed to be luxurious, it's supposed to be a single seater gunship, not a luxury yacht. And more curves would probably mean making it bigger, which would mean heavier and easier to hit.
     
  2. iN5URG3NT Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,132
    The workshop is the spaceship equivalent of Miss World. :D

    Quite a lot of functional blocks are as tough, if not tougher, than light armour. I used to cover everything in armour, but that often makes ships fat and blocky. A external conveyor plus a catwalk helps gain internal space, which is critical on smaller large ships.

    @Timberwolf That's a cool gunship concept, but I've got to agree with Pyre, solid black is not a good look. If you want to maintain a "stealthy" look, break it up with a couple of greys. Also, I'd chop the top off, cover with 3x3 lcd, angle the sides a bit and use slope bases instead of cubes in some areas. But yeah, if function is your thing, none of that is going to help, except make it a little faster.
     
  3. Timberwolf Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    246
    Which is why I don't really browse the most rated for functional designs.

    As it so happens, I have it up on the workshop. I say, knock yourself out.
    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=684313256
    P.S. I used Whiplash's weapon sequencer so don't be surprised when you run into a programmable block or timer block.
     
  4. PyreStarite Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    559
     
  5. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,863
    Light armor is totally useless as armor. It has high deformation ratios, low integrity and generally just does not hold up at all to the firepower output of a non-keen ship. When it comes to actually building ships in survival you actually want to limit the amount that stuff is buried behind armor because it's tough to construct and then repair as well.

    If you really want to protect something you need heavy armor - ideally spaced one block away from the internal block.
     
  6. PyreStarite Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    559
    At least light armor is light and provides a small shield that will protect from stray fire. I think that light armor in what is presented to us will essentially act like light armor should, gives better protection than nothing while not hindering the protected too badly and maintaining agility. I can compare it to cloth, leather, or even chain mail in fantasy scenarios, but light armor is certainly not plate mail.
     
  7. Timberwolf Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    246
    Composite seems to work just fine though.
    --- Automerge ---
    Watching a handful of videos, the Polaris reminds me of your ships. :D

     
  8. The Churrosaur Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    744
  9. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,863
    Against what? Heavy PMWs will punch through thick layers of anything. Only hangar doors and blast doors can stop unitary pmws and almost everyone is using segmented pmws these days. The best defense against most things is shooting the hell out of them and being about to kite.

    Armor is obsolete other than for short range attack craft.
    --- Automerge ---
    Nice design vs conventional weapons! Do you have a ws link? I bet my pmws go through like butter though.
     
  10. Timberwolf Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    246
    I dunno, my cruiser managed to withstand 1 or 2 of Whiplash's guided missiles.

    I'm still waiting for 1km+ range ship to ship projectile weapons.
     
  11. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,863
    Whips typical small grid missiles are very modest and mostly "role playing" in terms of size and capability - they are in-line with typical role playing ships with their modest armament, plausible layouts, and overall "reasonableness".

    RP ships have their own metagame. If you go to min-maxed ships, ore bombs and the like there is no armor that can stop them. Your ship can only survive if can damage the pmw sufficienctly to kite it, or if it is big enough and redundant enough to hold together and still run major functions like power and thrust and weaponry.

    The bigger grav-driven super torpedoes can vapourize any of the mega ships, no reasonable ship can withstand scaled down versions of that.

    Give me your cruiser to shoot at ;)
     
  12. Timberwolf Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    246
    "reasonableness" is what I build my ships for.

    Aye, sir.

    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=786260300
     
  13. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,863
    Single strike of 4 missiles, all turrets active, attacked from the top. She's still alive if you have a secondary bridge where I didn't hit. Point defenses neutralized one of the missiles.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. iN5URG3NT Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,132
    That's a pretty good visual demonstration of why Speed, Firepower & Redundancy>Armour.

    Hey @tankmayvin, what acceleration do you need to evade those missiles? Can you hit a piloted Vulture?
     
  15. Dante McFox Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    547
    Speed or Armor? Heavy, Light or Composite? RP or min-maxed?
    [​IMG]
     
  16. Timberwolf Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    246
    Since you hit the midsection, yes she's still alive. On life-support, though.
     
  17. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,863
    Not much, they are designed for extreme penetration and large damage volume for killing superheavies without needing ore stacks or warheads so the payload is pretty heavy. For lighter craft the same principle could be made dramatically lighter without loss of performance since you only need to go through a few layers of light a couple of functional blocks and you've over penetrated.

    Composite armor, even when min maxed simply doesn't stop PMWs beyond a certain weight and of non-unitary construction.
     
  18. Timberwolf Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    246
    PMW powercreep made short work of armor, didn't it?
     
  19. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,863
    I don't they ever even creeped. They've always been able to vapourize ships, of any scale by appropriately scaling up the PMW; it's just that people didn't invest quite so much effort into them when they were manually piloted or purely dumb fired. Once the couple of guidance scripts came out and people started really working on them, well everyone started to put them on serious ships.

    I only really armor ships expecting to face serious turret or gun fire. Everything else is basically open frame with some heavy armor/blast door for ribbing and bumpers.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. iN5URG3NT Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,132
    The Next Generation Fleet continues...

    [HS] CEU Puma Corvette [ACRV]
    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=809137782

    [​IMG]

    A replacement for my old Tiger Corvette, the Puma has more rocket launchers, more turrets, less mass and better acceleration. Although primarily for space, the Puma does work on planets. Also features a repair system for the rocket launchers and two Jumpdrives.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  21. JD.Horx Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,032
    I have to agree with @tankmayvin. It doesn't seem reasonable to build a ship that can withstand PMWs. I for myself build large grid ships with light armor to withstand Gatling fire and maybe 1 or 2 missile turrets and composite light/heavy armored ships for engagements with heavy salvos of 200mm rockets. But both types of ships should be agile enough to evade heavy torpedoes (point defense spam could help).

    Battleships, super heavy battleships and dreadnoughts are a sink of resources and easy prey for some PMWs. In my eyes there is no other reason to build them than for the fun of it and well... Prestige.

    Carriers are another thing, they should be well protected by smaller craft and should not engage the enemy by themselves. I still wanted to make this drone carrier I have capable of full automatic drone production and deployment. An operational radius of 45-50 km without risking your butt in a small fighter is amazing and rewarding in my eyes.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  22. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,845
    I used Whip's script. Then I added a second script that decouples merge blocks with inert (powered off) gyroscopes attached to them. The scripts looks for damage to the lcd at the front of the missile. There's a decoy block right behind it. When the lcd is damaged or destroyed the merge blocks peel off with a few milliseconds between each of them so they don't bang into each other. The gyroscopes are compact, heavy, and have lots of hit points so they smash through whatever is in their way... even multiple layers of staggered heavy armor. The gyros also can survive a heavy pounding by arrays of turrets over the 800 meters of targeting. Two of these missiles and your ship is extremely crippled. Four and you're just a floating mess. The missiles can be welded up inside of the missile frigate and fired as fast as they can weld up.

    I'll follow up with explosives after the armor is penetrated if need be. Warheads, missiles, etc. take a long time to penetrate armor. The way warheads work is they explode in a sphere sending out damage in rays based on how much damage has been absorbed by whatever is in front of them. Non-armor blocks are affected most while armor tends to stand up to multiple warhead blasts. You have to stack multiple warheads up to blast through the armor of your own missiles. So there's a bit of give and take between protection of your PMW and dealing damage.

    Here's a video of me firing off a gyroscope cluster missiles at @RobertmxD 's flagship. She's a beast. But vanilla weapons are no match for a good PMW.

     
  23. Bruce LeedleLeedleLeedleLee Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    813
    even capital weapons cant save me from that. cant defend against a missile with a broadside
     
  24. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,845
    Next video, I'll shoot the bow off. ;)
     
  25. PyreStarite Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    559
    What I am thinking right now is that high speed grids do too much damage in a too large of an area, at least from a glance. Would it be fair to say that impact damage needs to be nerfed by maybe less penetration or just straight less area?
     
  26. High Ground Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    324
    I agree, building a ship to withstand PMWs, is a waste of time and resources. However there are building techniques you can use to mitigate damage, such as composite armor, mixing in blast door sections, catwalks over armor, or even armored skirts. At best you can take a hit or two, but against a prolonged attack you screwed.

    However there is a tactic that I have found that gives you a fighting chance against (providing you can see the PMWs coming), a gravity dive. The secret is to build a gravity drive that will allow your ship to do a power dive. In most situations this will allow you to duck incoming enemy torpedo fire. How ever timing is everything, too early the torpedoes can still track you, too late and well the outcome is obvious. But if used at just the right time the enemy torpedoes will pass over your ship.

    So far this is the best tactic for negating PMWs.
     
  27. iN5URG3NT Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,132
    @Ronin1973 That's a cool PMW, but it seems very expensive, have you considered hydrogen propulsion?

    Since we're on the topic of PMW, how do people test them? I've been turning all weapons on - targeting neutrals and setting them on an autopilot course. That seems about the best way to simulate actual combat manuevers. For the biggest ships, the movement factor is not really a big issue, although large grid dumbfire weapons can be caught out. Large Grid Grav Guns are sooo 2014. :D
     
  28. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    4,845
    No. The missile HAS to fit in a universal launcher. The distance each block is from the weld head is critical and gaps of 3 blocks means missing or empty spaces in some instances. The cost of the missile is expensive, so it's not something you'd use in the early stages of the game. Some of the rear thrusters could be taken off or a grav drive used. But overall, the cost of the missile is worth winning the fight. The amount of damage done is enough to incapacitate a ship in one hit. It's basically unstoppable and even encourages being shot at (in order to release the inert gyros.

    I could clean up the script and put it on the workshop. It's depending on some block naming and the merge blocks release based on integers at the end of their custom name so they don't release all at once.
     
  29. Wellstat Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    212
    The new camera raycast allows detailed informatiom such as grid relationship (hostile or friendly), direction of travel, speed and position. This means it is possible to create a CIWS (close in weap system) by detecting if an enemy or neutral grid is on a collision course with your battleship, then react accordingly.

    Tricky part will be where to cast the rays for detection (rays are 1D and no area scanning). This is a serious research topic now.
     
  30. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,863
    I thought they were supposed to scan a conical volume of space, refresh rate being inversely proportional to the volume scanned.
    --- Automerge ---
    All serious PVP type ships should have a gravity drive, it's a costly device so it's only going to be in late tier stuff but they are energetically favorable compared to thrusters and can be protected from trashfire unlike thrusters and allow you to do all sorts of emergency combat maneuvers as well as just kick you up to 100 m/s efficiently. You can do really good turret trolling with a small armored box thing with a multi-directional grav drive and just sit out around 750m and pulse it to strafe around the target ship. The constant jinking of your 100m/s vector will totally throw off most turrets while someone else goes for the kill, etc.
     
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.