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Hydrogen fuel cell OR hydrogen ICE and SE's overall energy system...do they make sense?

Discussion in 'General' started by kcjunkbox, May 11, 2017.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. halipatsui Senior Engineer

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    But irl that is not the onöy consern.
    Energy density, capability to store energy etc affects too.
     
  2. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

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    bottom line as long as they make wheels reasonable to use i'll be happy as a pig in S**T.

    if it has proper engine sounds...even better
    if it makes no wheel sounds when its not moving...even better!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. odizzido Junior Engineer

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    Yeah very true. If everything in this game actually worked well it would actually be pretty good....at least multiplayer would be. I mean, I still like SE in its current state, but it's not something I am going to lose a bunch of hours to or bother getting others to play.
     
  4. FlakMagnet Senior Engineer

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    Lets be realistic ( well....actually the exact opposite.... )

    Having an engine running on ice is not something that works in the real world. It is inefficient ( the basic laws of thermodynamics being what they are ) as you would never get the power out you put in. You also would lose energy through radiated heat etc. unless you had a perfect heat recovery setup. It's not even a good way of storing energy from when you have a surplus ( solar....daytime ) for when you do not ( night....solar no worky ) as we already have batteries.

    What Keen are showing us is a gameplay mechanic.

    A power source that could power a rover on a planet, but not really power an advanced hover jet. If that power source also required only basic and plentiful ores and could be built with a basic assembler, then you have an early game limited power supply. With an easily locatable fuel source.

    If you also, at the same time, limited the amount of uranium in the world by making the ore patches of that mineral MUCH smaller and less common....what then? You would have a power supply that would power a rover to explore, until you found the uranium to make a reactor operate to have more power. You make uranium deposits something to fight over in multiplayer, and you encourage exploration of the planet to find uranium.

    Failing that....your only option for flight is hydrogen power in thrusters. This requires much more infrastructure to produce quantity and limits flight times...forcing you to construct resupply landing sites.

    I can see what this COULD mean, but it really depends how this is integrated into the game as it stands. Just throwing in a new power source is not going to change anything on it's own, and really...arguing over HOW it works is like a couple of fleas arguing over the existence of Dog......
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. halipatsui Senior Engineer

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    It would actually be really nice if new motor had enough power to power rovers but not aircraft.

    It would bting some logical tech advancement to the game.

    I would also like to see hydrogen powered aircraft to be simple enough to build early while jets and ions would be harder to build.

    This way you can make a less advanced aircraft with clear limitations in early game too.
    Or go to space early if you want.
     
  6. odizzido Junior Engineer

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    From a gameplay point of view I almost completely agree with you flak, but it would be nice if they called it something else. Maybe replace uranium with carbon since there is already so much of it. You need that to make steel anyways so you could use it for both fuel and plates. Then you could add small deposits of uranium around.

    Anyways I was thinking of making a planet like this, just to see how it would play. We don't have to wonder what it would be like since we can mod/create stuff. I am thinking once wind/this generator are in I will give it a go.
     
  7. Akimitsu18 Apprentice Engineer

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    I believe these hydrogen engines are exactly intended to be early tier tech. I could see them even being earlier than solar. Imagine Wind-turbines being the first power generator you can create, and it's only on stations/large ships, and then hydrogen engines being the only small ship generator until you build solar panels.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. AdInfinitum Trainee Engineer

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    I like it as a gameplay mechanic, it's just how they're choosing to represent it that I don't care for. Most of the unrealistic stuff in the game is either sci-fi tech or just numbers not matching up with the real world, but a hydrogen ICE running on ice is taking a real world technology and making it violate the basic laws of physics.

    Given the technological timeframe they're trying to keep it at, it could be something like a bioreactor filled with chemosynthetic bacteria and one of the metals from the game. The bacteria use the energy from oxidation of the metal to convert C02 into excess biomass, which is then burned for energy. It's easier to handwave the inconsistencies away, and what the player gets is a low power, early game power source that uses widely available materials. And the bacteria can come from the same magical place that the plants in the oxygen farm come from.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Spets Master Engineer

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    I also agree that we already have so many power options, but not gonna complain anyways, new toys are new toys :p
    I would prefer if they add portable batteries to transfer power manually, like, some times you can't just connect a ship/rover to recharge, so maybe you can just plug an emergency battery.
    Like, yesterday, I was far from my base, and I didn't pay attention to my suit power, so I ran out of juice unable to do anything, weld, grind, fly, also O2 was very low. If there was a portable battery in some container that would have save my day. It could be use also to power small station antenna, light post maybe (small mini solar panels would be awesome too)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. AdInfinitum Trainee Engineer

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    A portable battery would be nice. Something that has the same volume as a bottle and can only transfer power into suits or existing batteries would be a useful emergency backup.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  11. FoolishOwl Junior Engineer

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    Most seem to agree here that this only really makes sense as part of a "progression" of different energy sources, so that implies that there's a broader set of changes that we'd need to see to understand how this will function in the game.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. halipatsui Senior Engineer

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    You can have inventory full of:
    Oxygen bottles
    Hydrogen bottles

    Now if we add batteries to the mix why would we even need ships for planetary travel? Cirrently only suot power (afaik) limits engineers operating range.

    I think there has to be at least something that forces engineer to use ships for traveling.

    For power transfer battery or small reactor can be built.

    Without very finite limits on storing capacity of hydrogen, oxygen or suit power having a storage item for all of those would pretty much delete meaning of having the auit resources in the first place.
     
  13. AdInfinitum Trainee Engineer

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    I guess that depends on what inventory multiplier it's set to. On x1 a full inventory is 3 bottles and 1 or 2 tools, without any room for components or ore. With one hydrogen bottle and one hypothetical can of lightning in a bottle, I'll have useable space and a moderately improved suit range. It's still nothing compared to a ship though, unless you want to walk a few kilometers.

    Also, does anyone know how many kWh a suit holds?
     
  14. Akimitsu18 Apprentice Engineer

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    Suits being so effective is sort of a separate issue... but what you bring up actually mirrors real life. The only reason to fly a plane over getting one of those wing-suits with built-in jet engines (danger aside) is that a plane can carry more stuff and it's cold outside at high altitudes.
     
  15. FlakMagnet Senior Engineer

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    Play on very limited inventory, and you HAVE to build. You can carry so little you have to rely on conveyors, build ships, etc. All you can do in your suit is prospect and scout.

    If you equip your suit with magic pockets and a multi dimensional backpack that can carry 1000 steel plates, then you need no ships. But then...Superman didn't need a plane. That's a gameplay choice rather than alack of balance. I know lots of people don;t like resticted inventory, but that again is a personal choice. It's hard to balance a game factor when you let the player play with it. But I would not argue to take that choice away from the player.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  16. jaunetajabe Apprentice Engineer

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    Could a large ship have its turbines working while it is flying? it would be ridiculous
     
  17. Akimitsu18 Apprentice Engineer

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    Actually, that would make perfect sense as long as the maximum output of the turbines wasn't greater than the power required to make the turbine move through the air. However, since there is nothing like fluid simulation in this game, chances are a wind turbine will just output a constant stream of power at a given level, possibly adjusted for elevation.
     
  18. jaunetajabe Apprentice Engineer

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    I hope
    I hope they implement something realistic with wind, at least somo kind of differences.

    I think that wind turbines will work better during nigth than during day, but I cant belive that you can have the rood of your ship full of turbines working!
     
  19. Akimitsu18 Apprentice Engineer

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    The problem is there's no actual day and night in this game, it's just lighting. I could be wrong about that, but I'm pretty sure that there isn't anything in the game that can tell you the time of day when you're on a planet. You could go based on the lighting, but that could be defeated simply by putting wind turbines in an area that never gets sun or build something on top of it to block the sunlight.
     
  20. TwoHedWlf Trainee Engineer

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    Well...You know....

     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  21. halipatsui Senior Engineer

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    Asteroids come from the sun so isnt there chance of rain during daytime already?
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  22. jaunetajabe Apprentice Engineer

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    There is not now, but it should not be difficult to implement, it is easy to program, it is a question of time, how many minutes takes a day
     
  23. Akimitsu18 Apprentice Engineer

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    For which side of the planet? Which planet? What time of day is it at the start? What if you change locations?
     
  24. AdInfinitum Trainee Engineer

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    One way it could be done would be to take the p-gravity vector and another vector that points toward the location of the sun and compare the angle between them.

    I don't think that they should be more effective at night though, if anything the wind usually calms down at night. If they do choose to implement some sort of wind differences, I think it should be based on a sort of resource texture map that determines max power output for each location on the planets, and then have it scale based on altitude. Say mean sea level is about 80% power, power scales up to max at about 500m, and scales down to zero by around 2000m.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  25. Akimitsu18 Apprentice Engineer

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    Totally agree! I imagine that would actually be pretty easy to work out and wouldn't negatively impact the performance of the game too much.
     
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