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Improving Space Engineers single- and multiplayer

Discussion in 'General' started by WArLORD_3k, Sep 20, 2019.


Do you overall like the Ideas described in this post?

  1. I do like all of them

  2. I do like most of them

  3. I do like some of them

  4. I do not like most of them

  5. I do not like any of them

  6. I love this shit

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  1. WArLORD_3k Trainee Engineer

    Improving Space Engineers single- and multiplayer
    by fostering an economic and socio-economic environment,
    refining game mechanics and encouraging player interactions.

    Update: 26.09.19 (DD/MM/YY the one and only true format :D)
    Some updates incorporating feedback and trying to clarify some of the points somewhat.

    1. Player/Gadget/Tool-Inventory
    1.1 Add a dedicated inventory for tools and gadgets to the player character.
    Improvement to the inventory management
    In regards to EasyInventory, this would enable players to seperate certain items from the backpack inventory incase of an inventory dump (dumping a certain amount of things while retaining the rest e.g. medkits)

    1.2 Enable players to search and access each others inventory.

    A player should have to consent to let his inventory be accessed or searched, at least as long as he is alive.

    This enables players to ensure a rivaling parties member does not carry something unwanted or even dangerous, on “cooperative” missions or tours of ones base, such as explosives, weapons or, if turned into a physical gadget, a gps!

    2. Physical GPS
    2.1 The GPS functionalities, owners information and saved coordinates should be tied to an in-game GPS-gadget.

    2.2 Players without a GPS on hand should not be able to get their current coordinates or see waypoints, this enables players to, for example, visit each others bases without necessarily disclosing there location.

    2.3 It should also be possible to store GPS data on ships and stations to restore or backup your GPS-Gadget from those.

    2.4 Backups and restores should be possible if you are in range of an antenna.

    There should be no physical interaction needed as this would be to much of an inconvenience.

    2.5 The device should wipe all saved data after not being in possession of its owner for a certain amount of time (30 minutes?), a player should be able to claim ownership of a GPS in his possession preventing said wipe. A player should lose all waypoints upon death since the last time he backed them up if he does not recover the GPS before it wipes itself.

    The saved coordinates being bound to the gadget, losing, acquiring or defending it would become a meaningful event/objective.

    2.6 There should be a possibility to jam all GPS in a certain area, rendering GPS and already saved waypoints useless for people in that area.

    There should be a countermeasure to a deployed jammer giving the player an option to react e.g. a jammer should reveal its position enabling the player to get rid of it/out run it.

    3. Physical access rights management
    3.1 Rework of the rights system adding the possibility to assign access levels to players. (recruits/soldiers/captains or security clearance 1/2/3/...)

    This would allow for a still general and easy but more granular, than atm, access/rights management.
    This creates the possibility to restrict or grant rights to groups of people in the faction, instead of just one player or all faction members.

    3.2 A new rank/level can be created and "ranked" in a submenu of the faction menu.
    (It should also be possible to assign faction management rights to ranks in that menu)

    A faction members access level can be assigned in the faction menu.

    3.3 Higher ranked access levels should automatically grant access to stuff set to lower access levels.

    3.4 The physical item is basically your authentication token or ID.

    Anyone carrying your card can pose as yourself and access everything you’ve been authorized to.

    Your authorization being bound to the card, losing, acquiring or defending it would become a meaningful event/objective.

    3.5 An access card should invalidate itself after a short(/server configurable) amount of time (5 minutes?) not being in its owners possession.

    If a player lost his access card it should be possible to invalidate it in the factions menu (UUID - token invalidation...).

    This way losing it would turn into a short but high risk situation.
    (risk balancing)

    3.6 For special access outside the general rights management it should be possible to assign pins/passwords to blocks and whole ships/stations, allowing players (not necessarily in the same faction) to store those pins on their access card and granting access to anyone with said pin stored on his card.

    There must be a limit to the amount of stored pins to hinder bruteforce attacks.
    Allowing users to use passwords instead of smaller numeric pins would significantly increase security.

    3.7 Rent/Lend cards
    Similar to special access cards with the option to set expiration dates, without the possibility to access the pins/passwords stored and being able to just give them to other players without them wiping themself after a certain amount of time.

    3.8 Players should spawn with an access card.
    The new card should contain the access configuration of the previous card.
    (uid + ties to owner per card)
    Rent/Lend cards should be lost upon death without replacement.
    (Should invalidate itself only after the rent/lend expiration date is reached.)

    (This system could be fully fleshed out to reflect something like Windows-AD but that is probably too far... but basic ranks/access levels for grouping and ranking players should really be made possible... There would be also some caveats/problems with an implementation similar to Win-AD... )

    4. Ore distribution, mining, refining and assembly

    4.1 Ground material should always consist of several materials with a “high” percentage of base/waste material (currently stone).

    4.2 Ore patches should additionally contain a “significant” percentage of the assigned material.

    4.3 The mined unrefined ore should not be divided into e.g. stone/iron/nickel each in there separate inventory slot, it should be treated as a homogenous mixture and should display its composition upon hovering over it e.g. Ore (stone 70%; iron 28%; nickel 2%).

    4.4 The ore detector should be configurable to detect a percentage threshold of a desired material.

    4.5 There should be dedicated mining containers which can only store ores.

    (store a higher amount of ore in the same space as a normal cargo container - trade off is versatility)
    (to clarify this should be in addition to being able to store ore in regular containers)

    4.6 There already is a basic implementation of this in game where you can only find small patches of for example gold inbetween stone and therefore you automatically mine some stone while mining gold, this would be a more refined and broader applied version of that.
    With every tic you should get a mixture of ores e.g. 30l mixture consisting of stone 35%; iron 62%; nickel 3%; and this should then be added to the already mined ore mixture in your inventory, changing that mixtures composition accordingly.
    An ore patch should therefore be defined by what percentage of a given volume consists of a given ore and the player should be able to set his ore detector to only show patches over a certain percentage threshold.

    4.7 The distribution could then also be much more granular, you could for example create larger ore patches with a lower percentage of the assigned ore or you could generate smaler ones with higher percentages. (and everything inbetween)

    Therefore big mining operations can utilize there throughput while smaller ones can scout for higher percentage patches.
    Also if you are desperate for some specific ore you could lower the percentage threshold of you ore detector significantly increasing your chances of finding said ore.

    5. Tiered mining
    5.1 Mining is quite nicely tiered already but i would propose one more higher tier mining laser, which doesn’t require constant supervision as it should be able to automatically mine in a cone (10->75m, at -70->70°, 3x3x3 block) without directly interacting with the environment.
    The Mining outcome should be in the ballpark of the standard large drill (effect a wider area but slower speed maybe - “pulse” mining - stages: charge up/pulse/clean up/repeat).
    The Mining laser should also incorporate a tractor beam collecting the ore (clean up stage).
    This should come with a significant power requirement (maybe even extreme high voltages only achievable utilizing special capacitors - which could then also be used to influence the mining speed). There should be different targeting modes available for this miner (target desired ore above certain threshold - target nearest voxel - point straight forward - manual targeting).

    5.1.1 As is I don't see a significant reason for such a mining laser. We are well of with large drills getting the amount of resources we can possibly use (within a reasonable time) in game right now. But part of the whole proposed tier 3 thing and balancing, is a significantly higher resource expenditure, which in turn would call for a more practical way of acquiring more resources within a reasonable time/effort.
    Plus considering the proposed changes to the ore distribution, mining lasers could be used for lower percentage ore patches while still being worth the effort.

    5.2 The power requirements for the large grid drills should be higher, as they should need to be considered while building a miner.

    The inventory of drills should be small*er.

    6. Tiered refineries
    Refining blocks should also have a small inventory.

    6.1 Tier 1 (small and large block) (lxdxh)

    basic refinery - inefficient (ore/ingot/waste ratio) - low power - high hydrogen consumption - can’t refine magnesium or uranium - slow - (large 2x1x1 - small 4x4x4)

    6.2 Tier 2 (large block only)

    adv. refinery - high power - high hydrogen consumption - can’t refine magnesium or uranium (3x2x2 - 2 upgrade modul spots - efficiency and throughput - set amounts)

    purificator - input mixture of all ores - outputs “pure” uranium and magnesium ore + leftovers - 2x1x1

    magnesium refinery - inefficient - high power - slow - 2x2x2

    6.3 Tier 3 (large block only)

    industrial purificator - input mixture of all ores - outputs “pure” ores - high throughput (4x2x2 - 4 upgrade modul spots - power and throughput - set amounts)

    dedicated refinery - has to be set to a certain ore and then can only refine given ore - very high power consumption - high throughput - can refine magnesium and uran efficiently (2x2x2 - 4 upgrade modul spots - efficiency and throughput - set amounts)

    uranium centrifuge - can enrich uranium (enriched uranium needed for ammunition production - longer more efficient burn cycle in reactors compared to normal uran) 3x3x2

    recycler - recycling the waste created refining ores or assembling components (turning it back into an ore mixture) 3x2x2

    6.4 These changes would further extend and refine the basic implementation of tiered refining already in-game.

    • ore to ingot ratio and refining capacity (kg/h) needs balancing

    7. Tiered assembly
    It should be considered to introduce components which require other basic components to be assembled.

    7.1 Tier 1 (small and large block) (lxdxh)

    basic assembler - basic components - slow - high power (large 1x1x1 - small 4x4x4)

    7.2 Tier 2

    adv. assembler - produces basic components at an increased rate - produces advanced components at a slow rate - high power (2x1x1 - 2 upgrade modul spots - power efficiency and throughput - set amounts)

    military assembler mk1 - fast bullet production - slow explosives and missile production

    7.3 Tier 3

    industrial assembler - also produces advanced components at an increased rate - high power (4x2x2 - 4 upgrade modul spots - power efficiency and throughput - set amounts)

    military assembler mk2 - very fast bullet production - fast explosives and missile production

    7.4 There should be a distinction between certain productions, similar to civil/industrial production and military production.
    There are a certain products that are assotiated with a way more serious notion than general assembly/parts production, such as uranium refining/enrichment or weapons/munitions fabrication.
    This should carry over into space engineers.
    This would also enable to convey certain implications if you meet other factions...
    e.g a faction with a huge amount of military assemblers or magnesium refineries is probably more likely to be military combat centric and therefore maybe more aggressive.

    8. Tiered Blocks
    Blocks associated with a higher tier should be substantially higher in cost than the previous tier (material/time).

    8.1 Cheap tier 1 blocks for starting out.

    e.g. light armor;

    8.2 Massproducable Tier 2 blocks used for general expansion.

    e.g. heavy armor;

    8.3 Expensive high tech Tier 3 blocks for well established players and factions.

    e.g. composite armor; (very expensive in production(time and resources)/lighter and more robust than heavy armor)

    8.4 In general there should be more tiered blocks to provide the player with a kind of progression in which he intuitively and naturally iterates and therefore further develops and refines his gameplay, improving his overall experience. Without the need for a complicated and restrictive tech tree.

    8.5 Higher tiers should also involve more complexity if reasonable.

    e.g. ore mixture -> purificator -> “pure” ore -> dedicated refinery -> ingot - opposed to - ore mixture -> basic refinery -> ingot

    8.6 Additionally a player should find new gameplay options with every tier.

    e.g. tier 1 - wheel based vehicle & basic atmospheric or space flight; tier 2 - traversing between planet surface and space; tier 3 - traversing space with a jumpdrive

    8.7 Blocks of course don't have to be restricted to 3 tiers it can be 4 or even more and they can be anywhere in between, but having a clear “vision” at which “tier” (you could also say “point of time in game”) a player should have access to a certain block or feature helps to balance as you’ve already got other blocks/features in the same tier you can compare/draw reference to.

    9. Players guidance - basic premise
    Providing players with a basic premise on what is happening, a crude outline on what is going on around them and what their role is in this world, does often help them immensely to get in the right mindset for a game.

    My preferred szenario

    The “system” you’ve just arrived in is owned by a massive corporation which doesn't really care what’s going on in the system as long as they get their share.

    This corporation provided you with everything necessary to start your own little mining/trading/mercenary... business.

    At the center of the system is a highly unusual planet with gravity anomalies and extremely rare resources.

    After you’ve gained foothold you start to expand and acquire technologies/licenses from the trading posts owned and run by the corporation owning the system.

    The "system" itself is split between three major factions.

    At first they don't really care about your presence, but as your business starts to grow, you get noticed by the bigger factions and they start to pressure you to join them.

    10. Trading & Currency
    • digital currency "credits" as an item only (no personal or faction account inaccessible to everybody else).

    Having the credits stored as an ingame item adds to the game as you now have another target/another thing to protect/consider and new situations arise.

    • transferable via antennas and physically via inventory

    • can be stored on a extremely robust and "secure" "server"

    You can't extract the credits by grinding down or destroying the "server".

    This should further incentivize players to try and capture/break into it rather than just grinding it down or shooting it to bits.

    • universal material sold and bought for a set amount of credits

    This would act similar to a “reserve currency” (such as in theorie gold in rl) to stabilize the value of the standard credits.

    - i know that this isn’t quite the same but it should be similar enough to keep the economy stable for much longer than without it)

    • main trading station only trading licenses, advanced parts and the universal material

    Basicly a place of interest for well established players and factions, bringing with it all the usual opportunities and gameplay a place of interest does.

    • normal trading station selling licenses & trading materials/components

    Again places of interest and of course trading, which in itself also adds a lot to a game.

    • for every trade you have to pay fees depending on the amount you are trading

    Money sink to stop currency inflation.

    • trading should be as easy as possible (choose between sell or buy/choose material or component you want to trade/enter how much you want to trade/ get displayed how much you would get or how much it would cost/select the affected inventories/accept or decline)

    So there is next to no UI/UX barrier of entry to trading.

    • prices for components/materials in trading posts should be depending on how much there has been "recently" sold/bought also considering stations nearby (acquisition prices should only go up to a certain standard price - if low slowly going back up until standard is reached) (the higher the volume of your trade the higher/lower the price per unit.)

    • "server" containing credits only hackable with a decoder block (should take a long time - encourage players to physically take the "server" with them)

    • exchanging "credits" via antennas (time to transfer: normal antenna: depending on the distance to the destination upto ~25 minutes / laser antenna: set time of transfer ~45 minutes)

    Encourages players to exchange credits in person or at least being in a certain area which opens up new gameplay opportunities.

    • extremely dense universal material (small cargo space but really heavy) can only be sold/bought at the main trading station can be turned into nearly every other material (extreme energy consumption while producing)

    money sink + reserve currency + high roller toy

    11. Licensing
    Implementing licenses for functional or production blocks, bought with credits and requiring ongoing fees as alternative to PCUs.

    11.1 This would actually serve several purposes, one of the two main points is that it would reduce the amount of credits being in circulation on the server and therefore help reducing their inflation rate.

    11.2 The second main point is that it helps to keep players in check.

    Since there are still computational limits to what a server can handle we sadly need a way to restrict what players are able to build ingame.

    At the moment many servers have set a hard PCU limit, which at a certain point creates a hard limit which can’t be influenced by the player himself on how much and what a he can build which often leads to rejection and frustration.

    With a licensing system there still is a limit to what a player or even a faction can afford but by implementing it within the games mechanics, effectively gamifying it and providing the player with a way to influence those limits, it becomes much more natural and easier to accept.

    Balancing of course, is key to a licensing system.

    11.3 It should also consider people not being able to play for a while and people running out of credits.

    The prices of licenses should be the sum of however many days of ongoing fees of the same license (~3-7 days) so there is a reasonable barrier of entry getting a license, but also a fairly low barrier in selling one, knowing your not gonna be able to play/take advantage of that license. (maybe also a vacation system basically freezing licenses for upto maybe two weeks)

    If a player runs out of credits to pay his licensing his ships or stations should not become inoperable. They should still be able to maneuver, even if at a reduced velocity, it should still be possible to spawn at his medic station and the energy system should still function as normal. However production, refining and military equipment in need of licenses should not work at all.

    11.4 A further point in support of a licensing system is server maintenance.

    Server admins/moderators(/tools) could check if there are inactive stations/ships/players and clean them up after them after a certain period of inactivity.

    11.5 Having to pay licenses and subscription fees even provides players with an objective, something to pursue and achieve. Which many players do see as a motivation to progress further in the game. To which i have to say that it should never forcefully have a to heavy impact on players ability to play and enjoy the game.

    • "ship core" (really robust) acts as brain of a grid (without it the grid will go into an emergency mode - basic maneuvering/production) consumes credits according to the licenses used on the grid (shuts down with no available credits)

    Adding a way to make a ship/station vulnerable for boarding and more + again the whole money sink and licensing thing.

    12. SafeZones
    Basically…i would advice to try to avoid them whenever possible.

    Try providing alternatives like shields…

    12.1 Trading post shields

    For stationary server trading posts i would propose very durable shields, if attacked giving players inside the shield an audible and visible alarm and enough time trying to escape before going down.

    If enough damage is inflicted, the shield should go down and the trading posts should go offline for a set period of time (10-30 minutes) before it comes up again with full shields. Players and objects inside that shield should be invincible as long as the shield is up.

    Weapons shouldn’t be operational inside those shields.

    The (serverside!) trading posts themself, sadly, have to be indestructible as if not they would be constantly destroyed. The players should be able to defend the trading posts adequately.

    12.2 Player shields

    • high energy consumption

    • variable durability and recharge rates

    • impenetrable by enemies if up

    (if the enemy is inside before you activate your shield they should not be pushed out!)

    • can shoot inside out

    12.3 Player offline protection
    If a player is the last online member of a faction and wants to safely log out,
    there shouldn't be any damage inflicted upon the factions stuff for "insert amount of time here", before he can safely log out.
    After there hasn't been any attacks, in said amount of time, the player can log off and the shield (or whatever) would turn into a save zone...
    This would prevent many of the problemes people have with the current implementation.

    13. Server, faction, world building and other ramblings
    • only the admin should be able to see who is online

    You simply should not be able to figure out who attacked you by looking at who is online… maybe show whos online in your faction in the faction menu.

    • 2 to 3 “fictional" rivaling “server” factions, players/player factions can join (in principle similar to alliance and horde in wow, you should have to choose the side your on, so you’ve already got people you can associate with and already got a common enemy – supports/pushes player interaction)

    • player created factions with more than 3 members have to join(/associate with) one of the server sided factions (still remaining as their own faction though)

    again pushing player cooperation/interaction

    • player factions in your “server" faction should be automatically set to be allied

    Lowers the barrier of entry into an already existing “community” as you’ve got something in common (enemy and faction - common interest).

    • player factions affiliated with a rivaling "server" faction should be automatically set to be enemies

    Creating a common enemy/goal for a group of players fostering player interaction/cooperation.

    • solo players and smaller factions are considered neutral

    At the beginning there should be all possibilities open for you.

    You can work with all factions and see with which you align the best.

    Or you can just do your own thing.

    • player factions should consider to specialize... mining/military/trading &/exploring (scouting/collecting information on enemy factions or lucrative ore patches also delivery and trading)

    further pushing player/faction cooperation and interaction

    (consider to encourage specialization with specialized licenses)

    • advanced parts initially only obtainable through trading or progressing far enough to build advanced production blocks (which can produce more advanced parts required to build improved thrusters, weapons and other blocks)

    improving player progression and therefore experience

    • custom designed starsystem more or less centered around an highly unusual planet with extreme gravity and (maybe if not too demanding) corrosive atmosphere with special asteroids “floating” in gravity

    Common point of interest for the whole server.

    Adds an element of risk and more to the game.

    • extremely rare resources (for example an anti gravity material needed to build gravity generators and jump drives only available in asteroids floating in gravity right above the atmosphere - exploring - makes information on location more valuable - challenge adds to gameplay experience)

    • several surrounding planets with moons for variety reasons with their own peculiarities in a not to far distance (3-5 planets + center)

    Giving players spots to explore, build, hide, scout and much more.

    Some server factions might even claim a whole planet together or maybe just a moon...

    • at some point the further you travel away from the center it will start to get continually darker to the point of total darkness (dangerous to explore & great to hide in)

    This disincentivizes players from spreading too far which would reduce the chance of interaction with other players next to zero (turning multiplayer into singleplayer...) + it is actually really fun to explore in the dark only using your ships headlights.

    • in low gravity „orbiting“ trading stations (or on ground)(neutral ones and some only trading with members of a certain server faction)

    creating a variety of situations

    • one main trading station in space with a continuous jumpdrive-jammer for high rollers, trading only high value items and displaying prices of all the other trading stations

    • server trading stations will have to be indestructible (might go temporarily (~10min) offline if enough damage is inflicted - huge shield capacity)

    13.14 (<- nice to have - unrealistic/unpractical)
    • each of the server factions should have their own style/set of (basic) models

    (basically 3 to 4 sets of models for thruster, weapons and armor(skins?!) visually distinctive functionally equal)

    only one set (+ the default one) available per faction to have a visual identifier - no real difference in stats to keep things easy and balanced) + well mods...

    • first person only (ok this is my personal preference for multiplayer since it usually results in a way more planned out and thought out play style overall. I do understand that this is definitely not popular amongst players.)

    13.16 (not so much of a deal anymore since you can set seperate multipliers - the inventory size multiplier, still, should not interfere with calculations... a full x1 cargo container should act diffrently then a full x10 cargo container)
    • inventory size multiplier 1 - bigger inventories should be achieved by getting higher tiered cargos (also if you change this it messes with mass calculations) player inventories on the other side should be comfortably large from the beginning on! (mech suit? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)

    Most players are comfortable with smaller cargo inventories if the player character inventory is bigger to begin with, making cargo freighters actually useful. A larger character inventory might be far from realistic but sometimes you just have to follow the rule of cool or in this case convenience.

    • don't show player names (name broadcasting disabled by default)

    14. Other ramblings

    • kinda everything needs balancing (hydrogen/inventories/components/power...)

    • more powerful sensors

    • a dedicated block blocking or detecting mining

    Players should be able to detect mining activity in certain areas especailly around their base, so they can activley search and prepare. (Doesn't have to point out where the mining is taking place only that its happening...)

    • dedicated jumpdrive and gps jammers

    A jumpdrive jammer could be implemented acting like an emp - a one time burst + charge up time - shutting down an insecured jumpdrive for ~10 minutes maybe
    and countering that, a jumpdrive should have an ability to temporary (5-10 minutes) protect itself against such a burst and should then also have to charge up that protection.
    If you anticipated the blast you could be ready for it and get away and if the enemy has the drop on you, you have to withstand until your jumpdrive is up again.
    You'd never be completly blocked from using your jd for an extended period of time.

    • energy weapons (hitscan laser and ballistic plasma weapons - maybe require energy capsules or similar as ammo…)

    • something like this would definitely be awesome (holy grail type awesome)

    But there are a lot of things which have to be addressed first such as ownership, factions, player count, server load...

    • uptodate modding “guide” pretty please!

    15. Monetization
    15.1 I quite like where KSH is positioned in regards to monetization at the moment.

    So kudos!

    Keep putting out those skins and variations of blocks as long as everybody can build a version of and interact with them I’m totally fine with that!

    Maybe consider adding a few new blocks for everybody :) with purchasable variations ;) this would be a win win situation in my eyes.

    15.2 Also if this keeps going and there are a lot of purchasable skins/dlcs, please consider offering bundles, so that players who are new or coming back to the game don’t get overwhelmed or even deterred by the sheer number of things.

    15.3 Oh and go and have a gander at the things in the workshop and consider maybe throwing a bone to some of those creators, maybe a steam gift card or similar and ask them if you can bring some of their stuff over to vanilla!

    Parts of this: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1682356734 for example...

    Closing statement
    Everything here is just ramblings of someone passionate about SE and subject to discussion! I always enjoy feedback and am open to additions or changes. There already exists a more basic version of this (Previous post: https://forum.keenswh.com/threads/m...drequest-tldr-http-imgur-com-a-3al7x.7392595/) from about two and a half years ago, where some additional block ideas are listed if you’re interested. I’ve started this “rework”/extension of that concept with plenty of time on my hands but it also took way longer than expected (youtube can be very distracting) so I’ve had to start speeding up a bit midway through… maybe I will finish fleshing it out in another two and a half years... There is a lot more to most of the things here so if anybody wants to know more just send me a message on reddit (u/WArLORD_3k)!
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2019
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. KissSh0t Master Engineer

    I really like the player inventory gadget idea.... and the physical access idea too.

    There are a lot of nice ideas here.

    ps Marek.

    • Like Like x 1
  3. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

    I like tiered access control via access cards (keys). I think I would do it by allowing the owner of the card (the person who owns the assembler it was created in) to add or delete PIN numbers on a card. Then that card can be given to another player to use. Terminal blocks that have ownership rights would also have a field for a PIN number. If the PIN number and card ownership match in the using players personal inventory, then that block can be accessed including its inventory. Setting a block to be used by faction members or "everyone" overrides any need for the access card if the user meets the criteria (such as being a faction member).

    This would allow block owners to simply hand out cards and set up PINs on stuff they want to give others access to but deny them use of other blocks. However, the access card should grant any player carrying it access... so access cards should be protected and not left laying about. So finding an access card could be a very exciting find... it also lends well to scenario use as finding access cards could be used to unlock certain areas or even ships as the player progresses.

    Also by using a PIN system on the access card, you won't need a different security level system. Access can be as unique as setting blocks to specific PIN numbers as necessary. You could easily set-up an unlimited number of tiers if you wished or even give out access cards to friendly factions to use very limited parts of your equipment.
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
    • Like Like x 2
  4. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

    I thought this was a necro post at first, seeing that old interface screenshot. :)
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. WArLORD_3k Trainee Engineer

    Thanks for the input! I could see something like that for special access rights but not for general use, as if I understand your implementation correctly, it would in some not to uncommon scenarios require an quite extensive amount of manual hussle giving access to multiple people on multiple blocks (thinking of ~8 player factions ~3 ranks different access levels). But I think our proposals could work really nicely together, mine for broader implications and yours for special access as shown in your example with giving access to things to a friendly faction. Why i think the cards should wipe themself or be invalidated is if you just die somewhere might not even be your fault you have a security risk out there you might not even have the possibility of getting rid of it also if while being attacked an attacker gets permanent access to parts of your ship/base he might just go up to the next control panel and shut the whole thing down. With a 5 minute wipe or an immediate manual invalidation there is still a certain risk in losing an access card but it might be temporary and considerably less dangerous than without that option.
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
  6. KissSh0t Master Engineer

  7. mojomann71 Senior Engineer

    @KissSh0t - Definitely not a forum over there, not sure what gave you that idea. :)
  8. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

    @WArLORD_3k I agree all this could be re-arranged and grouped into suggestions. You should check first to see if some of your things have already been suggested, both so that you won't re-suggest something and/or perhaps you might see something that has little support. In any event, Keen no longer looks in these forums for ideas.

    This forum would be a better place to discuss a suggestion, as it is easier to participate here then the support site, which isn't even easy to log on to. (I use my Facebook account because it's easier)
  9. captainbladej52 Apprentice Engineer

    could be interesting and i'm definitely not going to complain about more inventory space for free.

    Way too much potential for abuse with this one so for me it would be a hard pass on this part of it but I'm not opposed to folks having the option. Otherwise I think having a rights management type of thing could be a good thing for factions to have.

    Most of what's in this section can be accomplished now with a few additional configuration options being introduced. If folks want to jack up the amount of ore concentrations so one tic of a drill gives 200 billion kilos of uranium then more power to them. Well maybe not 200 billion but you get the idea lols. The mining only containers would be little more than limited functionality cargo containers. I personally don't think something like that is needed as the same function can be accomplished now with different configuration settings, and perhaps a sorter set to whitelist only. Not opposed to the idea if folks want it, I just don't think it's needed. Also like the idea of more configuration options for the ore detector.

    Personally I don't see the need for a laser mining drill when we already have good drills as is. I also don't know that the mining lasers would be nearly as precise either based off the description I'm seeing here, unless of course they could be focused and controlled as easily as a turret. Plus there would still need to be someone or something to go down there and fetch the ore broken up by the laser unless the laser is also part tractor beam. Not going to knock it if it became an option, just not sure it would be my cup of tea. Not sure I could get behind boosting power requirements of the large grid drills without knowing more about what level of boosting we're talking about and such.

    Tiered refineries and assemblers kind of already exist. There's the basic versions of the assembler and refinery which don't really have the greatest rates or such and give limited functionality. There's also the more advanced variants that can be modified by what modules you stick to them. Not opposed to more options but don't know honestly that they're needed. Most of the specialized stuff such as the military assembler could be solved by giving an option to assign priority to bullets and missiles in the options.

    This would best be accomplished through the technology tree or a technology tree type thing. Also not opposed to introducing new blocks though I would need to know more. The big one for me would be how much more durable than standard heavy armor would this proposed composite armor be.

    Also don't mind the idea of new stuff to spend credits on and such. Not so sure I'm a fan of the actual cash options like that per say but not opposed to it being an option and letting folks decide for themselves. Would need to know more about these money sinks.

    could be an interesting way for factions to make credits by renting out some of their facilities and such. when the license expires both sides have to agree if they want to renew it or not and go from there.

    I've been through this one in other threads recently so I will keep it brief here. The point behind safe zones was to prevent offline raiding and griefing. It's not perfect but it's better than not having it. There are some exploity bits with the safe zone I would love to see removed but that's a completely different ballgame than simply balance based arguments. The safe zones are also meant to help secure the NPC trading stations so someone can't just be "that guy" and knock them all down. Without some kind of something that served that purpose, you would have those certain douchebags that would run around and try to destroy all the stations so folks can't interact with them, which no one wants. So something that does the job of the safe zone needs to exist to prevent this from happening. I grant you that I find it ironic they claimed they didn't want to add shields, but added something like the safe zone who's appearance looks like a giant shield bubble. Otherwise I'm not opposed to other defensive systems like a legitimate player shield. I would also love to see the API exposed for the safe zone so it can be modded to everyone's liking, and an option to disable player safe zones. Ultimately I'm glad I can agree with some key bits on this one.

    Alot of these boil down to personal preference and can be taken care of via server/world options. Such as seeing who is online being a prime example. That should be something ultimately left up to the admin(s) of the server. Either keep it as an admin only tool or let them choose who has access and who doesn't to that information. There are a couple of bits I do want to pick out and address specifically.

    I would say this should be left up to server admins how this behaves. With that said I don't agree with automatically making a faction affiliated with a rival an enemy. Just because guy A doesn't like you or you don't like him, doesn't mean guy B has a beef with either of you. Kind of like if 2 friends of yours couldn't stand each other in real life. Just because they can't stand each other and don't get along doesn't mean you can't get along with them. This is ultimately something that should be left to individual servers and factions to decide.

    They kind of already do this now in deciding how they're going to operate. From posts I've seen of Stardriver's he tends to operate more as a merchant type faction. In my case I tend to operate more as a self-sustaining military/police force. I run cargo when I need to, or purge pirate insurrections when necessary. To borrow an analogy I kind of operate like the Jedi and go where I'm needed.

    Not sure how practical that particular type of thing would be to setup in game and code, but I've wanted to see additional environment types for awhile now as well as planets. We don't want gravity to be too extreme but having a higher overall gravity on the planet could get interesting. Otherwise players not interacting as much and spreading out is a player problem. I'm not opposed to ideas that could reasonably give people some incentive to interact and explore within reason, but ultimately this is a player problem and not a Keen problem.

    I strongly disagree with a jumpdrive jammer as I've outlined in other threads recently as there is way too much potential for abuse with them. Jump drives work fine as they are and the issue of jump drive effectiveness is again ultimately a player problem. If Keen decides to institute a jammer down the road that will be their call to make at that time, however I sincerely hope they don't as that would be so abused it's not even funny. This jump drive jammer would also need a counter of sorts, otherwise it becomes a counter to the jump drive, without actually having a counter itself. personally i'm not a fan of giving anyone that kind of power. What individual servers do is up to them, but I am absolutely not a fan of jump drive jammers ever existing. Ultimately this type of block just strikes me as trying to force a pvp situation when one or both sides may have no interest in it. I'm not a fan of this type of thing and ultimately believe folks should just play the cards dealt to them.

    Personally I don't see why we can't just have both. I see no reason why we can't have say 5 dedicated tool slots that don't take up space in the regular character inventory if we're going this route. This would enable folks to have a slot for a drill, grinder, welder, gun, and some ammo for said gun. After that everything else goes to normal inventory. Personally I think inventories of blocks and such are fine the way they are.

    Definitely don't agree with the jump drive jammer for reasons above. A GPS or comms jammer is a completely different story as it makes sense you would want to jam enemy comms to some extent or hide your GPS location. However these GPS and comms jammers would need to have counters so they're not completely full proof, otherwise they would be too strong. Detecting mining activity could easily be done through the ore detector already.

    Far as the other stuff goes I would love to see some energy weapons and shield type blocks actually make it to the vanilla game as an option for people. Folks that want to use them could, those that didn't want to wouldn't have to. They could even be turned off by default meaning folks would have to enable them manually if they wanted to use them. I would love the idea of being able to have some sci-fi type bits that could be utilized for a more futuristic feel for folks like myself and others who want it. Those that didn't want it wouldn't have to use it. For folks who prefer more limited tech, options for less advanced looking stuff could be added as well. Let folks choose more how their game looks and feels within reason.

    Sensor wise I've always hated the default limit on the basic sensors as imo it makes them useless unless you're right up on them and I hate that. Would love to see the max range be made much much higher than it is now at the cost of higher power consumption of course.

    Far as hydrogen, I definitely agree on that as imo it's way way WAYY too easy to piss hydrogen in this game. In fact hydrogen balance is the exact reason I created my custom engines mod I have now is I hated how easy it is to piss through hydrogen fuel. The current balance of it now imo makes it nigh unusable in alot of cases. Since it's the most powerful vanilla thruster type I get that they want it to be more expensive to maintain and use, but the current balance is going way overboard imo. If it were me I would make it at least 20-50 times more efficient than what it is now, and/or just give folks options to set it to how efficient they want it up to 100x more efficient. Ultimately let folks decide for themselves some of that stuff.

    Ultimately I like some of what i'm seeing and would want to know more.
  10. WArLORD_3k Trainee Engineer

    That's why I proposed that the card should automaticly wipe itself after a short time, which could easily be turned into a configurable server option (set 0 = instant invalidation once ur dead/drop it), + the manual invalidation via the factions menu.
    Basicly trying to balance the risk but still making it a possibility.

    I might not have brought my point across as clear as I hoped, it isn't necessarily about the amount of ore you get per tic it is about not finding/mining pure ore. There already is a basic implementation of this in game where you can only find small patches of for example gold inbetween stone and therefore you automatically mine some stone while mining gold, but I'd like to see a more refined and broader applied version of this in the game. With every tic you should get a mixture of ores e.g. 30l mixture consisting of stone 35%; iron 62%; nickel 3%; and this should then be added to the already mined ore mixture in your inventory changing that mixtures composition accordingly. An ore patch should therefore be defined by what percentage of a given volume consists of a given ore and the player should be able to set his ore detector to only show patches over a certain percentage threshold.

    As is at the moment I don't see a significant reason for such a mining laser either. We are well of with large drills getting the amount of resources we can possibly use (within a reasonable time) in game right now. But part of the whole proposed tier 3 thing in my post, is a significantly higher resource expenditure, which in turn would call for a more "convenient", a more practical way of acquiring more resources within a reasonable time. ("as easily as a turret" was what I meant by "manual targeting" listing the desired targeting modes)
    (picking up the ore tractorbeam style, would be the "clean up" part of the mentioned cycle)

    I don't think I've ever thought about my drills power requirement while building a large mining ship and I don't think it should be this way.
    I don't want them to be a power hungry hog or anything, I just think that when your ship has nine or more large drills on front of it maybe consider another or even dedicated (atleast small) reactor?

    Yes. And I would like to see this being expanded and being more refined.
    Concerning the military stuff, it ain't about the production rate, I think it should be differentiated between industrial/civil and military stuff as often is in rl. Military grade things are always assotiated with a bit of a more serious notion.

    Probably not a bad idea but I honestly never been a huge fan of tech trees. I'd like to see something similar to what they have implemented in scrolling the mousewheel while holding a block.
    For example a radial menu which pops up by pressing and holding mousewhell and displaying you all versions of the block you've got selected and let you choose between them.
    It also has been standard in this kinds of game, to have diffrent levels of equipment to manufacture diffrent sorts of components for quite a while now, so I don't think that this would be the thing that pushes SEs barrier to entry...

    Durability of course has to be balanced not only concerning production cost of such a block but also gameplay implications.

    The cash thing is pretty much about, turning something from number punching and a save haven (unreachable bank account) into gameplay.
    Money sinks are basically a necessity as the value of the currency would plumet (infaltion) otherwise in an in game economy.
    At the moment this is one of the main purposes of the in game store.

    You could even add a cost to the time ore spent in a refinery and consider it when selling ingots ;)
    Tbh. there is so much to think about when introducing such a system that I could easily have made this whole post only about that one topic.

    Can you link some of these? I'd like to read up on those!

    If this whole safe zone thingy was really about keeping offline players save I think they f*ed up royaly...
    If they had only implemented them for the trading stations I would have understood why they made them full on save zones, but the way they chose to implement them in regards to offline player protection I can't quite comprehend why they went this route :/

    "I grant you that I find it ironic they claimed they didn't want to add shields" <- this :D
    and this so much -> "love to see the API exposed for the safe zone"
    and definitely this -> "an option to disable player safe zones"

    Why couldn't they just go the way of:
    Hey you're the last online member of your faction if you want to safely log out,
    there shouldn't be any damage inflicted upon your stuff for "insert amount of time here" befor you log out.
    And after there hasn't been any attacks in that time player logs off shield or whatever turns into a save zone...
    This would prevent many of the problemes people have with this system.

    I just don't get why, if they wanted to protect offline players from being fucked with,
    they chose something which easily can go offline while players not there and which can be used in the same way when the player is online?!

    "I would say this should be left up to server admins how this behaves." - Yeah sure!
    The friendly and enemy categorisation basically boils down to the "alliance vs horde" thing in games.

    "Just because guy A doesn't like you or you don't like him, doesn't mean guy B has a beef with either of you." this doesn't really apply in the szenario I wanted to portray.
    It is much more superficial in that well you chose with your clan the side of the horde and me and my clan chose the alliance. - (The server faction is the horde or the alliance in my post.)
    We chose a side and our side is the good one and you are the "baddies".

    (never played WOW tho - just a really good example for this mechanic)

    Yeah sure I just wanted to point a finger to that and foster it especially in the late game.
    I've always been a miner! (My passion in the past has always been gravity assisted deep space mining but since small miners do not generate chunks anymore it's basically impractical)

    "We don't want gravity to be too extreme" - I would certainly like this planet to have a strong enough gravity that you have to seriously consider what you fit to your ship and what you do want to bring with you.
    You should even have to reconsider mounting guns to your ship in favor of lifting capacity as you want to bring as much of the rare materials with you as possible.
    It should be a high risk high reward type of environment.

    In a multiplayer environment it's part of the game design to foster player interaction but in the end yeah if a player wants to play by himself and just hang out an chat with people thats on him ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    "as that would be so abused it's not even funny." :D I can see that but it all depends on the way you implement and balance such things...
    A jumpdrive jammer could be implemented acting like an emp - a one time burst + charge up time - shutting down an insecured jumpdrive for ~10 minutes maybe
    and countering that, a jumpdrive should have an ability to temporary (5-10 minutes) protect itself against such a burst and should then also have to charge up that protection.
    If you anticipated the blast you could be ready for it and get away and if the enemy has the drop on you, you have to withstand until your jumpdrive is up again.
    You'd never be completly blocked from using your jd for an extended period of time.

    Ah I get it I might not have conveyed this the right way.
    What I was refering to or wanted to adress, is something which was much more common back when there weren't seperate player and cargo inventory multipliers.
    Those are also kinda two points
    - the seperate tools&gadget inventory which is mainly meant to improve management
    - back then the majority of servers had there inventory multipliers set to a higher number which in turn messed with mass and other calculations in game.
    I guess this is not so much of a pressing issue anymore...

    A comms jammer would probably just drive people to use other chat programms/steam chat to avoid them.

    GPS jammer - as with all things: balance is key

    "Detecting mining activity could easily be done through the ore detector already."
    I'm not talking about someone mining resources near my location, I'm talking about someone digging a tunnel to get to my base :D I'd like to be able to detect mining activity in a certain area around my base so I can activley search and prepare.

    Thanks so much for taking the time to go through this and giving feedback! Very much appreciated!
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

    Lots of good stuff here, folks!

    The thing about "military grade" is endurance. They try to design military stuff so that it works "no matter what." So military stuff tends to be bigger, heavier, more expensive and, in most cases, less versatile. In my opinion, a "military grade" refinery would be larger, heavier, and slower than the civilian counterpart, but you could use it as armor (current vanilla refinery, btw, can take quite a punch). As a merchant I would not use them unless I was frequenting an area where a fight can't be avoided but the profit potential remains high.

    Well, what are you waiting for, an engraved invitation?:D

    It's because there is a huge difference between the way Keen's staff plays SE compared to just about everyone else. In a nutshell, if everyone plays nice the current system works flawlessly. Most of us know that's not the case even on "friendly" servers. I'm guessing Keen still doesn't get it so they will try to "fix" the safe zones.

    I currently have two mods that are PvP oriented that I think would be more suitable. One is the EMP module which, sadly, apparently now causes massive performance issues, but should serve as an example of what could be done about the scourge of jump drives. This was not a block made to be a specific counter to another block. It will disable any terminal block within range, including other EMP modules. I'd like to hear what hardcore PvP players think of it.

    The other is the Hacking Computer. As you might expect, this block turns your stuff into my stuff. However, you can't just fly near someone and flip a switch. You have to build it on the grid you want to hack, so you must expose yourself to some risk. The mod includes a counter (Firewall), and hacking computers can themselves be hacked.

    Lastly, on the subject of safe zones, I'm a bit puzzled as to why player-made trading stations should get special treatment with respect to their ability to exempt themselves from offline raiding. Just because you now have a place to buy and sell stuff all of a sudden you need a shield now? My massive military base where I build and store giant weapons of death and destruction needs to be hidden somewhere so that griefers cant find it, but my STORE can have a shield? Plus, I can have the shield without ever building a store, so now my military base is a safe zone that can't be touched? This sort of logic would make Spock himself give up and just start clubbing people.

    No no. Thank YOU ;)
  12. Bullet_Force Apprentice Engineer

    @WArLORD_3k you forget the PVP section ie 50% of the game's player base. Also you should put numbers in-front of each suggestion so it's easier to refer to things.
  13. Dax23333 Junior Engineer

    50%? I doubt even 50% of the player base plays multiplayer. If you have a source that says otherwise I'd love to see it.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  14. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

    So, am I the only one that would like to see 3D holographic radar in vanilla?
    • Like Like x 2
  15. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

    Well, with a level system you classify everything via level. That's okay, generally... but it doesn't account for complex relationships. A faction might be organized very simply or with a very unique dynamic. A level system only handles a very linear progression but can't handle any branching. A PIN system allows for a lot of branching and even individual situations. The current system of sharing would remain intact. The PIN card system would basically be an override for blocks that are not set to be shared by a faction member or even grant access to a player not in the faction at all.

    Here are some example scenarios.

    #1. You let someone borrow your miner but don't want to give them access to anything else in your base. Easy, PIN the entire miner with a unique number. Hand the player a PIN card that you own that contains the PIN for the miner. Maybe it also contains another PIN for the controls to the hangar and the connector. The card can hold multiple PINs.

    #2. Your base is open to all faction members. But you and a mate have your own private room. Or there's a couple of cargo containers that you want to give your mate access to but not the entire faction. You and your mate aren't higher ups in the faction. So how would a tiered security system work for this situation?

    #3. There's a community area on the server... like a common starting area. The admin wants to give new players partial access to the facility. The PIN card should be spawnable loot with detail information available to be typed into the XML code... like a sub-heading under the loot list for cargo ships.

    #4. Three players are contributing resources for community build/repair. They are different ranks and possibly different levels of trust. How can everyone drop off their cargo without someone tinkering with the rest of the base or tampering with the prior players load just dropped off? (Say someone is dropping off 10k in platinum and you don't trust everyone).

    The concept of a PIN card system is analogous to putting a padlock on something and then handing out keys. The player can establish any sort of relationship he wants with any other player in the game without the coders having to create a complicated set of rules. Most everyone is familiar with the concept of locks and keys as well as managing all of the relationships between those issued keys and those who are not... think of your front door and who has a key to it... and why or why not.

    With a PIN system, you keep the current permissions system but if the permission returns false (access denied) then scan the players personal inventory for a PIN card, is the PIN card owned by the same player as the block being accessed? Yes? Does the PIN code of the card match the PIN in the block? Yes? Full access to block granted with exception to changing ownership and permissions.
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

    @Ronin1973 I like the idea of key cards. I was looking for a way to restrict access to areas on my ships based upon rank and position. For instance, Bridge crew would have access to the Bridge regardless of rank, and Engineering sections would be restricted to Engineering crew. Officers have separate quarters. That sort of thing.

    Could also be a grade identifier. An Engineer: Miner Grade One is restricted to using hand drill. Grade Two could operate small grid mining equipment. Grade Three can operate large grid. Grade Four can operate Prospectors.

    I would settle for a mod, but I think this sort of thing should be standard. It might further stop people monkeying around with your stuff just because they're in your faction.
  17. WArLORD_3k Trainee Engineer

    Yes, please. :D Time man. When I find some I'll do it. But it's even hard for me to find the time to reply atm. But love reading the feedback tho. :D

    I need to be more specific I think. I don't think player trading stations should get any of the special invincibility sauce (except standard offline protection). Give them the option of a shield (as every ship/station else) and once it's down shred them to pieces if you want to :D
    Player traders should probably pretty much opperate like popup stores.
    I'd do it like this:
    Once online, move my trading post in position and announce that it's open for trade.
    If an attack is incoming, try to defend it until I get it out or the attack is repelled.
    And if I (or any other faction member) ain't watching it (gone mining or something...) and it is wrecked during that time then I'm just straight out of luck.
    (Could also only trade with friendly factions I guess... and beef up the defences ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
    --- Automerge ---
    Agreed. Most of the player base probably doesn't play multiplayer. But that might be for good reasons.

    Realistically speaking pvp/combat accounts for probably less then 2% of playtime in survival.
    And I don't think I did :/ I might not have proposed anything directly related to combat in this post (except if you would count shields, energy weapons or jammers ¯\_(ツ)_/¯),
    but a lot of the proposed changes would defenetly have an impacted on PVP or at least the chance of PVP.
    Yeah I'm a passioned miner (engineer) but if there is a worthwhile target (someone I can get something out of), one that can stand its ground, don't think I wont engage.
    (proposed changes that would impact pvp: jumpdrive/gps jammer, encouraging players to be within a certain distance while tansfering credits (you basically know where they are), shields, creating places of interest where players will probably show up, gps gadget I mean think about acquiring one and having all important gps points of that person... there is a lot in there if you're into that part of the game ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)

    Yes I should add numbers! I will!
    --- Automerge ---
    "Well, with a level system you classify everything via level. That's okay, generally... but it doesn't account for complex relationships." - Yes that's exactly what I was aiming for.
    Maybe it didn't sound that way but I really like your proposal!
    (With the caveat that you also need a simpler way of giving access to broader areas to a group of people other than your complete faction)
    It would be way to much hussle for me personaly to manage pins for multiple blocks for multiple people on the regular to achive things I could with a ranked system.
    But for special access out of the norm yeah sure!
    A padlock works for physical access lets say a hangar with an undocked ship in it.
    But as things are connected in space engineers, you would have to set a pin for everyblock on a grid you want someone to have special access to,
    as if you only lock the door they still could access stuff inside through the console.
    That said for giving access to a whole ship to a third actor it could work quite well if you could set a grid wide pin in lets say the info screen.
    As said in the beginning I quite like the proposed functionality but if I had to chose atm I'd prefere a general system over the regular system with the pin functionality.
    (Both in combination would be great of course...)

    Regarding your 3rd example, thinking about it, it would be really nice to also then set an expiration date.
    You could give new players access to facilities and withdraw it after the starting period.
    Also automatically withdrawing access to certain things you want to temporarily lend(/rent) to someone.
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

    In my experience, keeping the feature as simple as possible makes it more feasible. A time coded expiration would add a lot more complexity. Would setting a PIN code for every block be difficult? Well yes and no. You could PIN an entire ship or base, the same way as you set the ownership and access properties. You can set multiple blocks at once.

    If you want to create a really complex system of access... you could... but that would mean a lot of work and planning. But you probably shouldn't. The PIN system would work best for grids or blocks that you want share but only a specific group of people or those with access. The more rules you put into the system (programming side), the more difficult it is to manage. So it's best left to players to work out their own system of management with the given tools. Actually, it could be a lot of fun and really add to cooperative gameplay and trade.
    • Like Like x 1
  19. KissSh0t Master Engineer

    Even a 2D one would be kind of cool.

    I was thinking the game kinda needed a radar block, and then you could couple it with a cockpit and have a little HUD like we see in fighter jets, except with this it would show little dots for different things the radar block detect, and the little dots could be brighter or dimmer depending on the range of whatever the object is that the radar block has detected.

    This way players could try finding other players, or npc without having those [GO EXACTLY HERE] antenna / beacon markers shown within the game world.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

    Indeed. What's odd, though, is that the game shows us markers that give the location of other ships and players but we never have to build or install any sort of block in order to get that ability, and we see this on a HUD that is there visor up or down but we can't get it on an LCD.

    I'm just waiting now for @Malware to tell us that radar would kill performance so we can't have it.

    Way to go, Captain Buzzkill.
  21. KissSh0t Master Engineer

    Just made me remember, I actually made a ship in survival the other day and put the flight seat inside the ship protected on all sides and then put an LCD in front of the flight seat and then had a camera at the front of the ship and when I went to set it up so I can see what the camera sees on the LCD in front of the flight seat I was like ohhh that's right I can't do that in this game, it's Stormworks: Build and Rescue that I do this in......... Stormworks even has radar.

  22. Malware Master Engineer

    That's just Chief Buzzkill. You can keep the captain's chair, just leave me to my tinkering.

    Nah. The info is already there. Shouldn't be any big deal.
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  23. Stardriver907 Senior Engineer

    That's General Buzzkill to you.;)
  24. Sirhan Blixt Apprentice Engineer

    "Pay no mind to Wimp Lo. He is an idiot. We trained him wrong as a joke."
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  25. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

    Thanks, Betty.
  26. Sirhan Blixt Apprentice Engineer

    I don't know what's more hilarious: that the thread paused here, or that, two weeks later, Bullet Farce moved himself to put a "disagree" mark on my post.
  27. Spaceman Spiff Senior Engineer

    I think it’s called a pregnant pause.