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Is this game dead?

Discussion in 'General' started by Sinsemillia, Nov 4, 2017.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Sinsemillia Trainee Engineer

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    4
    I have owned space engineers for a couple of years now, and i have to say i had very high hopes for this game. Unfortunately recent updates are not what they used to be. Is this game bleeding to death?
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
  2. Taemien Apprentice Engineer

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    468
    Space Engineers is in the top 100 games played today on Steam stats: http://store.steampowered.com/stats

    Beating Wildlands, Sims 3, and KSP as of writing this.

    Hardly dead when its hanging in with top Steam release titles on that list.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  3. Carrion Senior Engineer

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    1,409
    in a word

    NO

    is your imagination dead? quite probably
    one of the things i love is browsing the steam content and seeing just how crazy people are getting. i dont mean the million turrets battlecruiser of death mk9million i mean the raceways, the silly engineering pet projects that will have taken months to finish im talking the works of art that people create.

    so again NO
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Funny Funny x 1
  4. Spets Master Engineer

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    3,214
    it is so dead that Devs update the game every week, and online players are always between 2000 - 3000+ since 2013 and the workshop keep growing every day
     
    • Agree Agree x 8
  5. Sinsemillia Trainee Engineer

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    4
    The amout of players is not increasing, as far as i can see its going down. http://steamcharts.com/app/244850 Besides no relevant content has been added in a while. Atleast i am still encoutering performance issues in multiplayer, even though if got a good pc, and fiberwire internet. The devs seem to prioretice skins over performance and bugs..
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
  6. Devon_v Senior Engineer

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    1,602
    What you are seeing is the shift from alpha to beta. It's not about new content weekly anymore, now it's about making what's in there work, and only adding things that are needed to make something else work, or flesh out parts of survival.

    There's been major under the hood stuff, the sort of things that take weeks if not months to get done, but ends up just being a single bullet point like "Enabled multithreaded physics". It's not as cool as a new block, but it needs to get done. Multiplayer is also a major focus, but again, it's slow work as they dig for obscure bugs, figure out what causes them, patch it, then find out from players that that wasn't the only thing that triggered that bug, and back into the code they go.

    The most recent patch included a complete rework of how thruster damage is handled so that it's consistent and works properly in multiplayer.

    The skins are the artists keeping busy. Artists generally shouldn't be touching the game code, so the alternative would be paying the artists to do nothing.
     
    • Agree Agree x 8
  7. Mikiy Trainee Engineer

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    68
    I see a bunch of suggestions on their feedback portal with lots of votes that do require quiet a lot of artist work, but not really seeing a popular one asking for skins tho, just saying ;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Taemien Apprentice Engineer

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    468
    That's largely irrelevant. Being in the top 100 played games on Steam is quite a feat for an unreleased non-AAA title. Even if it is declining it won't be dead for years to come if ever.

    Also for your second comment, let me break something down for you. Software development includes different resources. You have coding and development (they make new features and create the base of the product), you have artists for both audio and graphics, and in some larger products you have finance and production (for smaller projects people may wear different hats). Skins are in the artist section of development. Let me ask you this. If all the blocks have art done for them, what are the artists supposed to do?

    I'm a coder and director of a project of my own, if I were to try to ask my artist to code something, he'd look at me like I was stupid. He doesn't know the difference between HTML or Python. No idea what an object, method, or attribute. So I'll ask the question again, the ones making the skins, what should they do? You seem to think you know the answer, maybe you should enlighten everyone here?

    I don't mean to put you on the spot, but it is only fair considering the facetious statement implying they only care about skins. I am pretty sure the coders and developers wouldn't really appreciate being told that what they are doing is meaningless, especially since they DO release weekly patches still that fix a few bugs here and there.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,705
    Partly because the feature site is very new. People have been asking for ways to personalize their character for a long time. True, they wanted something to the level of a face editor or something, but that's quite a bit more advanced than simple skins...

    What we got is a compromise.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  10. Uzul Apprentice Engineer

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    127
    A character editor envolves a lot of coding and would probably influence many different parts of the game, while a new skin is nearly free of the risk to create new bugs and problems. Most companys would have pushed Space Engineers to release years ago, and would have given us updates like the planets as costy DLC - You shouldn‘t blame the developers for finally finishing the gameand concentrating on solving bugs.

    Once its done, the chances are high that they will start developing some DLC, an Addon or SE 2.0 - I‘m looking forward to that.
     
  11. chrisb Senior Engineer

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    1,460
    I certainly think its less popular than it was. However, its a game that you can keep coming back too, well I and many others do. The success of any game, for me, is how often you can go back to it, if the gloss wears off a little.

    Sandbox games are different to the usual release, they rely heavily, in most part, on the players imagination, which is great, I more or less exclusively play sandbox games, so I'm a very big fan of these types of games.
    That said, the game has to work correctly and have the players confidence. We know the game is still not released, however its in Beta now, so the idea usually is tweaking things, that are already in the game at this stage. I don't think this is the case and they went to Beta too early. This may be because they have a, as they say, major or indeed perhaps, game changer of an update coming in the next few weeks or so. That really wouldn't happen 'usually' in Beta. Better in Alpha or earlier.

    So the game isn't dead, but it see's competition and then moves tactically to offset that competition (just my view). This is good for us the players, but can leave the game hanging a little.

    The Arma series is very similar, in that the game is almost in constant Beta, not bad for the players, lets be honest, it means they aren't walking away from it. But not great if they change things quite a lot, that mean any players having made any content and by content, I'm not talking about mod/addons here, but missions, game-play for themselves, a gaming world etc, could have all that ruined. BI, the devs for Arma, don't do that, they tread carefully around players in-game content (usually, maybe not so with mod/addons).

    That is where Keen need to think carefully, because many players won't wait around after having in-game content ruined. This doesn't include myself, I can return to games after long gaps and play again 'alot', even if I have to rebuild large sections. But that doesn't apply to all players, some just lose interest, which is very understandable, then walk away and not return.
    Too many of those and the game will die..

    "Not dead yet, but needs to grow players confidence"... is what I'd put on the report.. ;)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Cetric Junior Engineer

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    811
    Patience is not a virtue commonly found anymore in an era of kids grown up and used to getting anything fast and effortless.
    But patience still pays to those who embrace patience.
    --
    In addition, games in themselves wear out after some time - normally. Only watch children play. If they have mastered a game, it starts to decline in their interest and some other finds their attention. So same goes for video/computer games and adult consumers. They try out novelties and jump from one hype train upon another. Maybe they return to an old favorite after a decade or so, for nostalgic feelings.
    In that context, Space Engineers and Medieval Engineers do amazingly well - due to their character as sandbox games. They do not age or get explored by consumers as much as story-telling games, shooters, adventures or even basic strategy games. The limits are not so much in game features but in the fantasy of people dealing with that sandbox game. Some hit their limitations soon and submerge from view, some may never lose their interest in this, as the possibilities are borderless.
    For one or another reason, with a decisive update, some declare they are done with SE and quit - but I bet they still play it secretly as not to have to admit their inconsequence here. Because, if someone has loved this from 2014 - 2017, he won't quit - not really, after sleeping over the anger he may have had.
    Plus, the mod scene is proof the game is f***** alive. We still discover something new and useful, which makes us rearrange our builds. It's always sad when some mod is given up and does not function anymore, but with more than a hundred in use, you should not be surprised if one is being dropped. New ones appear on the screen and the dance continues...
    --
    Live long and prosper!
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Roxette Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,456
    Another thing apparently not commonly known/remembered any more is the old forum/usenet adage... "Do Not Feed The Trolls" ;_;
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. blazemonger Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    29
    While I certainly do not agree that SE is dead or dying, I do believe there is reasons to be concerned. Due to it's nature (and thus by design) the player base is very spread out and in many cases private. Multiplayer has a plethora of issues which get worse incremental with every player added to a server. There are several contenders for the genre, some promising to offer everything SE does plus flawless and massive multiplayer ability.

    The absence of any form of community _within the game itself_ also means that right now SE is mostly a single player game where some admittedly seem to have a great amount of mastery but the majority will just sit and copy these creations into their world, play around a bit and move on. The out of game community for SE is good but when it does not really extend into the game itself it's not really functional. As a sandbox SE is really very limited as far as game play. Creative yes, content.. not so much as what's there is repetitive and with no real PVP angle it will remain as such.


    I do believe this is/will be one of the reasons the game will not have the lifespan of a game like EVE online (not making a game play compare here, nor a better than!) unless Keen drives and introduces stable game play opportunity that caters to bringing the community in to the game.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. Carrion Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,409
    Opens a can Of spam.
     
  16. Dan2D3D Moderator

    Messages:
    1,004
    Maybe the players are dead but not the game for sure :)

    You Must like to create to become a Good Space Engineer.... I'm playing since 2013 >> I would need more time to be able to create all I want to do in this game so NO it's not dead at all.
    (my todo folder is Full)

    I'll say > it always depends on what you like => I can say that I Love this game ;)

    EDIT

    Sandbox challenge for you Guys!
    > Are you able to create a scenario/mission world and share on the Workshop for all to have fun?

    Challenge:
    Try to do something similar to my last mission world
    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1129588351
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
  17. sioxernic Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,535
    There is plenty of players...

    Every game can't have 100-200 000 concurrent players...
    Battle Rite is an active game with quite a few players, only like 1 796 concurrent players at peak time...

    Space Engineers have quite a few times more players than that.
     
  18. Sinbad Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,788
    and a lot of us poke around in the game only occasionaly. usualy to try out new features or see if a certain bug got fixed. expect to see player numbers jump when a feature complete, fully optimised version is released.

    so: not dead, just waiting to live.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Mikiy Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    68
    I always wanted more customization for the engineer too, while i certainly didn't expect a top notch character creator like in oblivion, all points bulletin or star trek online, what i would have expected would be something like what 7days to die or empyrion has tho, as those games have a small dev team too. Never really though of this skin system as their idea of a compromise solution to having customization.

    Now that i think about it that way tho and less as a feature that was just added for micro transaction reasons.. its even more disappointing actually, as it probably means we won't get a proper character customization then.
    Anyhow i guess your right on that one, thanks for pointing that out.
     
  20. Saberwulfy Apprentice Engineer

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    292
    After Minecraft, i think Space Engineers is the most successful indie game
     
  21. Malware Master Engineer

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    9,705
    I doubt that was ever an option. People usually run around with their helmet on. Lots and lots of work for very little benefit. It's a cost/gain thing. Yeah, I get the disappointment. But most likely it was never gonna be a thing.
     
  22. May Rears Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    414
    Short answer: The game is still alive.

    Longer answer: The game is still alive. Not sure I like the direction they are taking it with micro transactions but they can be ignored for now while they are still fluff skins. It also has bugs that to be frank are probably never going to be fixed such as Klangs playground: Rotors, pistons and subgrids but they are nailing smaller bugs.
     
  23. Malware Master Engineer

    Messages:
    9,705
    What microtransactions? Sure, they have special offers of a skin now and again, but I wouldn't call that microtransactions. As for the trading between players... that doesn't benefit Keen much...
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  24. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,227

    Ahahahahaha....the mere mention of sims 3 reminds me of the fact all the dlc costs 500 euro.

    but to put my own half-sentient statement in about space engineers state.

    but to me as long as updates keep coming the game is still alive.
    the community can rise and fall every now and then due to some updates.
    mods keep alot of us here...myself included even when updates break them beyond the modders patiences and a mod is left to rot.
    but thats ok because once the game does reach a stable state I'd say alot of modders would return to mend their mods and failing that others will repair it.
     
  25. FoolishOwl Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    522
    You're right that we spend most of our time with our visors down; when we're not, we're often zoomed out to a scale where it'd be hard to even see if someone had their visor down or not. I think that makes it a smaller issue than it would be for other games, but I still think it's an issue. Representation matters to people -- for one thing, it's a first indication of the tone of the player community. (I've generally had a good impression of the SE community, as these things go.)

    I've been hoping they'd simply have an option to choose between a few different faces, some gendered male and some gendered female, with a skin-tone slider; maybe throw in a few options like a cyborg, an alien, or something silly. They've demonstrated several times that they can allow for swapping heads, as with the demo mod, DeerAstronaut; the Halloween skin had a different face. And the current skin selection interface still includes a drop-down for choosing different models, though there's now only one option, "Astronaut". Most people I've seen discuss this have said that it's acceptable to keep the same body, since the existing model depicts a bulky space suit, which would obscure physical differences anyway.

    I've thought that porting over the face of the default engineer from Medieval Engineers would be so straightforward and easy that the reason they haven't done so already is because they're working on a more thoroughgoing solution.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
  26. Taemien Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    468
    Only 500? That's on the low-end for DLC content these days :p
     
  27. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

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    2,227
    it always makes me laugh.
    I'm sure i could get all those keys for less than 100 euros.
    its just funny to see them flogging off dlc from a game made back in 2009
    [​IMG]
     
  28. Mikiy Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    68
    Yes probably and why is it that way? Cause playing vanilla SE the survival way pretty much sucks.. its an empty sandbox with nothing to do, the only survival element is the oxygen simulation.. and since the implementation of air tightness is kinda bad for performance and disabled by default most people probably don't bother with it.. so why take the helmet off then? Theres kinda almost no reason anymore.

    But that doesn't need to be that way... in example last time i played empyrion with my friends, everyone always took their helmet off when entering our big underground base... why? Cause its simply more convenient to use air tightness then visiting the oxygen station (or crafting bottles for it) all few minutes. The key difference really is that air tightness works better and you also sort of also need to have your base air tight over there for growing food inside your base else you'd starve to death. Also if i remember correctly wearing some heavy armor suit even slows you slightly down there so theres some incentive to have some armor lockers at the doors too.. which is only realistic, our real world astronauts in space don't wear their EVA suits inside the ISS either.

    So what im saying is, would this game ever start to improve its barely developed survival aspect, character customization would possibly become a thing. I totally agree with you that currently its not so much tho.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  29. R-TEAM Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    540
    Look at the "view" count from early year to now from the patches/updates ....
    Look at the Steam rating ...
    Look at the activity in the forum (o.k. - fans can hold even an dead horse long time "alife" ...)
    Look at the workshop (and i mean not the 100.000s stupid blueprint ... i mean good quality mods - have self over 100mods online - and the good modders activity is nearly dead - barely catch up with the many game changes/mod API changes of keen ..)
    Waiting of the new wheel implementation ............
    Waiting of simspeed solutions ..............
    Waiting of the mucht times "big improvements" promised multiplayer ................
    Get Skins ..............................................................................................................

    Not more to say ....
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  30. DrVagax Administrator

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    822
    No need to insult someone for just asking a question.
     
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