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Issue with drills and pistons

Discussion in 'Bug Reports' started by Fowst, Jul 6, 2017.

  1. Fowst

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    Hi devs, hi community

    I'm pretty much a noob so if I got something wrong in either this post or the way I built my machine forgive me ok?

    I tried to build this mining machine with very large wheels. It had like 8-12 pistons attached to a pretty large platform which had like 50 drills on it. The Idea was to be able to lower or raise the drills to be able to drive without the drills getting too close to the ground so you don't get stuck in mountains. (happened to the first prototype)
    However, even with the lowest possible piston setting (0.1 m/s speed) my vehicle bounced off the ground doing one or more backflips as soon as the drills hit the ground, I'm pretty sure it's not intended that way. It was a pretty huge structure but basically just a skeleton built from armor plates and the reactors still out in the open unprotected, it was rather light for it's size.
    So even in creative mode with block damage turned off the vehicle was unfunctional.
    I think there's a bug with the pistons coming down on the ground in a vehicle with wheels on it. It should be reproducable.

    I hope this was helpful, if there are more questions about the exact structure of the machine or anything I'll be happy to help out.

    Greetings
     
  2. NoThanks

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    Creative mode, I'm going to assume it was single player? Pistons and Rotors are notoriously buggy, but far more stable on a single player game. I can't presume to know what's causing it though chances are it's directly related to the use of pistons (I long ago stopped including pistons or rotors in my designs, but I almost exclusively play on a dedicated server.)

    It may help people in the community if you give a copy of the log, your computer specs, and even if possible an uploaded copy of the world. Some bugs are extremely hard to track down and the more technical information you provide the more chance you'll get a viable response... Either way, best of luck and... Welcome to space engineers, get ready for heaps more of what you've just experienced!
     
  3. GrindyGears

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    Pictures would help, generally they are usable and mostly stable in SP.

    If I am reading this correctly you have 8+ pistons stacked end to end with a heavy weight on them (50 drills is a fairly heavy load even when empty)

    If that's the case setting all of the speeds to 0.1 m/s means collectively it's moving at about 0.8m/s which is faster than the drills are cable of digging.

    I don't know if it's changed, but last I checked you could mine at around 0.3 m/s at absolute max.

    I am quite serious about the pictures. That will probably be the easiest way to determine if it's user inexperience or a legitimate bug.
     
  4. Fowst

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    First of all, there's 1 more important factor. I deactivated block destruction to keep my machines from falling apart :D
    I tested another very simple machine locked to the ground with 2 pistons and a drill and it worked with destructible blocks, but there were crazy bugs happening when I had block destruction off, the drill ended up above the pistons and the pistons bended and glitched all over the place. seems like pistons aren't even immune to destruction ;) So I guess part of the Issue are the indestructible blocks. Maybe also something about the tires isn't right. I tried changing several values there.

    All of this happened in a friends game, but I was playing alone. I tried it again a little bit away from the easy earth station I thought maybe the station nearby could cause errors but nope, it's definetely the pistons.

    Here's a pic, 4 of the 8 pistons are circled green, the other 4 are just on the opposite side and also a smaller pic of what happens when the drills hit the ground. This thing is huge and there seems to be an error generating too much acceleration in general just because an object has a lot of mass.

    I think it's a general problem in the physics code at the moment. That thing was sometimes just flying for no reason, turning left, right, up, down like almost randomly.



    Here are some of my specs:

    OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional
    CPU: Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E3-1241 v3 @ 3.50GHz, 3501 MHz, 4 Kern(e), 8 logische(r) Prozessor(en)
    BIOS: American Megatrends Inc. P2.10, 12.05.2015
    RAM: 16 GB
    Graphics: NVIDIA Geforce GTX 970
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
  5. Ronin1973

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    This isn't a bug report really... so you may want to ask an admin to move it to the Gameplay Help section.

    You're drilling next to your own wheels. As the voxels deform and generate new surface area, they may be colliding with your wheels as if they had impacted and sending you flying.

    I would try this again with a MUCH wider wheel base. You may also find some success by slowly turning your wheel strength down to 0% before drilling. Another option is to lock your grid to the planet via a landing gear that's AWAY from the drill area (not sure if that would work since it'll probably be on a rotor or piston.
     
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  6. GrindyGears

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    AH! I may see your problem (it could also be distorted perspective...)

    Your drilling platform appears to be the same width block wise as the hole it's going through (on the frame) in SE that doesn't fly, it needs to have either a full blocks space, or have the blocks be blast door blocks (thinner) this would explain the issue with indestructible blocks on, as it's trying to push something through a hole thats too small and its causing it grief.
    The other issue i can foresee is a standing issue with the orientation of piston heads. if you go into the info tab and click something like "show grid pivot" you will get a little 3D XYZ coordinate system on each piston (before its merged) you must ensure that all of these orientations are the EXACT same or else bad things happen... I'd honestly hoped they'd fix that with the multi threading update but i guess not.

    try giving it a 1 block clearance all the way around the platform and try again, if the issue persists you can try to recheck the orientation by redoing the pistons.

    another issue you may run into is the holes drilled by the drills may not actually cover the whole area, meaning the drills may go down to the hilt (platform frame) and just bottom out, unless you're lowering it a little bit and driving. staggering your drills more like a checker board or a smaller drill area with every block as a drill may fix it.

    Hope this helps
     
  7. Fowst

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    Thanks for your reply which was a little helpful, ronin but this still has nothing to do with gameplay help. Even if I'm drilling too close to my wheels that's no excuse or logical explanation for what's happening.
    Something is clearly wrong in the physics engine if a 10 kg rock flying away from the drill or a slight change in the surface can cause a heavy mining vehicle to fly.
    Other People might already have encountered similar issues or will do so in the future. when placing a wheel suspension while being "in the wheel" you get bounced out aswell.
    It could also be an Issue with the wheel suspension countering the gravity of massive objects and reversing it occasionally.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017 at 05:03
  8. NoThanks

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    Welcome to Space Engineers!

    You would have loved the helium ship bug.
     
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  9. GrindyGears

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    @Fowst did you get a chance to apply my thoughts and musings to your drilling rig?

    I disagree with ronins assessment, that it has anything to do with wheels in this case...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Fowst

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    not yet mate, will try.
     
  11. Ronin1973

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    Oh, so you're reporting a bug then? Gosh... I wonder where that should go so that someone at Keen might look for it? If only such a forum existed...

    It's a bug. It's a KNOWN bug. Try exploring the bug report section if something goes wrong, freaks out, and spontaneously explodes. There are still things you should and shouldn't do in the game... if you don't want your stuff to blow up... which is pretty helpful when you're playing survival and especially on a server. We'd all like to see the bug fixed. But there's no promise on when that's going to be, is there?

    "There's no excuse or logical explanation..."

    Yes there is.
    There's a bug.
    Everyone but you knows about it.
    It's probably not getting fixed anytime soon.
     
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  12. Fowst

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    Yo ronin, sometimes it's better not to say or write anything opposed to writing this kinda nonsense. I tried being moderately polite in my first answer to your first post, but your second post is too much for me to bear, my brain hurts reading that. You're contradicting yourself and basically just tryharding to give the most useless arrogant answer of all times. Maybe you shouldn't spend your time replying to the same kinda thread over and over if it's that annoying for you to read about a similar bug than you read about earlier. Your comments lack quality and thought.

    "This isn't a bug report really... so you may want to ask an admin to move it to the Gameplay Help section."

    "It's a bug. It's a KNOWN bug."


    Is it a bug now or isn't it a bug? If this bug is "a KNOWN bug", why didn't you provide information about the bug, if it is KNOWN to you?

    "Try exploring the bug report section if something goes wrong, freaks out, and spontaneously explodes."

    I'm here reporting this problem, but instead of searching the forum for similar but not equal situations, I prefer explaining my individual situation because different players have different bugs and there might be different ways to reproduce them. You spent half your life in this forum and still understand nothing about bug reports and how to communicate with human beings without making them get angry at you.


    "You're drilling next to your own wheels. As the voxels deform and generate new surface area blabla..."

    What a load of ronin. Matter of fact is you don't know a lot of things, but you know that you're right. I'm not going to argue with your kind. Now get out my face please.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017 at 17:42
  13. Ronin1973

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    This is how the game currently works. If you modify the voxels near where you have a landing gear locked, crazy things happen. Who knows if this can be fixed since you're altering what your ship is locked to.

    I'm not responsible for digging up every latent bug known to SE and showing them to you. It's a "bug" if you think you should be able to alter the voxels under your locked landing gear. If that sounds like a bad idea (which it is) then it's a gameplay issue.

    Are you done with your rant? Do you need a tissue and a hug? It still doesn't change how the game works.
     
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  14. Forcedminer

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    I've build space ships before with pistons on drills.

    i thought this will extend its reach so i can tunnel into an ore bearing asteroid with ease!

    in the end i just lost alot of metal because it exploded.
    next time i tried locking the gyroscopes in override so it stabilizes the drill shaking and reducing the pistons extending speed.
    same thing.

    I just avoid using pistons and rotors in survival...wastes too much time and metal for something that can explode at the slightest resistance.
     
  15. NoThanks

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    Words of wisdom.
     
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  16. Forcedminer

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    the one contraption i built was an attempting was an observatory.
    something that had a cockpit attached with 2 zero resistance rotors, a camera and a gyroscope allowing full 360 degree control while zooming in with a camera to scout out things.

    i was like to one of my mates "hey look at this" and started to spin around laughing then the thing explodes and flung me off in a direction extremely fast still spinning.

    we laughed at heads off
     
  17. DrVagax Administrator

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    You could be a little more helpful then that. Yes its a known bug but no need to act like that.