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Large scale grinding

Discussion in 'Survival' started by Jurriën van Dongen, Jul 5, 2014.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Raz0rking Apprentice Engineer

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    wont it be a giant pain in the ass to manover these big ships into that thing?
     
  2. fusurugi Junior Engineer

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    Before the suspension wheels had been released is was trying to build a grind/weld station for stuff like spawn ships using mobile arms with wheels attached to let them bend away if something larger comes along.

    didn't work out too well.

    I'm hoping the railblocks make that outcome a different matter for even better performance than a low powered rotor.
     
  3. Jurriën van Dongen Trainee Engineer

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    I love the little loot dispenser you have below the pit...which from what I can tell serves no real purpose except being absolutely cool to look at :D
     
  4. TwoHedWlf Trainee Engineer

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    Not really, though that particular ship, the mining hauler, the turrets on the sides poke out and need cut off first. But it's not hard to just fly it over and then lower it in.
     
  5. xwhitemousex Apprentice Engineer

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    Question... does the materials obtained from grinders actually transfer back to the cargo container, or do they get 'stuck' in the connectors?

    From another thread regarding drills and making drill rigs which can be extended through use of merge blocks and connectors, the drills would only push ore as far as to the connector. Then you have to manually drag it via inventory from the connectors through to the cargo container.

    Your ship design has a similar connector setup... does it actually fill the container?
     
  6. xwhitemousex Apprentice Engineer

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    Won't that design make the ship slide off to side against the far wall since the panels are applying pressure to only a corner of the ship at a time?
     
  7. xwhitemousex Apprentice Engineer

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    We are working on the design phase of a large station based grinder on my server too.

    Here is the concept we came up with (ie, it's not built yet).

    Top down view of the 'pressure plate' to push ship down onto grinders below.

    AMB is artificial mass blocks to help push it down. The gravity generators will have one with a setting that gives gravity down (push) and the other one will have a setting that gives gravity up (lifting the pressure plate)

    The wheels are in cut-outs in the walls of the hall to stabilize the pressure plate and avoid it slipping.

    [​IMG]

    Here is a more detailed view of the actual wheel arrangement.

    5 pairs of wheels, aligned the same way as shown in sketch above... that should provide stability so the pressure plate doesn't slip on a side and come loose. One pair of wheels attached to rotor and boom to act as suspension when the pressure plate reaches the floor.

    [​IMG]

    The final key is to find a way to push the actual wheel arrangements against the walls inside the cut-outs in order to make the whole thing a firm installation. Since there will have to be minimum a 1 block space for the whole pressure plate to fit into the hall it will require a form of suspension arrangement (I think) to push the wheel arrangements properly against the walls.

    Still at work though, so will need to test this out once I get home :)
     
  8. TwoHedWlf Trainee Engineer

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    Nope, it doesn't seem to go anywhere. That's part of why I put the panels further out to the side, to give them a longer arm so they come down on the ship more vertically. But if it does shift a bit the walls around it hold it in place.

    I did though end up with the whole thing jammed up because the antenna on a mining hauler poked up through a panel and wedged between the panel and the top rail of the surrounding wall. That was a little annoying.
     
  9. GreenGod Trainee Engineer

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    Yeah it only overflows to the containers once the connectors fill up. I don't think you can turn connectors into 'pushers' can you ?
     
  10. xwhitemousex Apprentice Engineer

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    But it does, eventually, push it to container then?

    Need to research the conveyor logic on the connectors a bit. I know assemblers don't push items to cargo until the assembler is around 75% full. Maybe it is the same case for Connectors.

    Although, if you move items manually from/to assembler then I have noticed it has a tendency to get jammed. I think the game assumes that if you moved something into assembler manually then you want it to stay there, so game doesn't automatically push them.

    Really wish we had a thorough explanation and run-down of how all conveyor components, inputs and outputs actually interact. Would make it much easier to understand what is going on, as well as being able to create designs that actually work rather than having to field-test every design before incorporating it into your ship or base.
     
  11. Neovin Trainee Engineer

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    This is my was of stripping a ship down, I have updated this since I took the screenshot with merge blocks and a better connector system and it is highly effective for setting running then forgetting
    I have a rotor on the side of my station deck set to .13 with landing gear to grab the ship to be disassembled then an arm on a rotor set up at 90 degrees to that extending about 30 blocks with a welder every other.
    So the ship is attached, slowly spun and the grinders will slowly grind it away till there is nothing left, works so well.
     
  12. GreenGod Trainee Engineer

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    Yeah, I believe they act in the same way as the assembler in this regard, starting to empty only when they are above a certain percentage full. There was video posted here recently that explains the ins/outs of the conveyor system pretty well. Full credit to Neotician for the video:

     
  13. Geneticus Senior Engineer

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    Check to make sure you didn't leave the assembler in "disassemble mode" it will pull instead of push if you leave it toggled.
     
  14. Geneticus Senior Engineer

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    I need to add my pics later tonight. I built a 1037 pit grinding ship. Only issue I have is exploding containers dropping bits and blowing up my inner grinders It was inspired by the Doomsday machine from TOS Trek. I was thinking about changing the grinders out for drills and eating an entire asteroid with it...

    It is absolutely massive, turning on the grinders alone kills my framerate.
     
  15. DarrikVkir Trainee Engineer

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    I've found I've needed a variety of grinders for different purposes. I'm at work, so no pictures at the moment, but in my latest survival game I went through the following:

    1) Created a basic dual grinder small ship. That did well enough grinding our first cargo ship capture down enough that we had parts to expand, although it took forever.

    2) Expanded that original dual grinder ship into a 12 grinder small ship. We took apart a mining hauler and a military transport apart with that thing, but it was way too slow to satisfy... those two ships provided parts for the next one.

    3) Captured a military escort... and added 20 large ship grinders to the front of it (and reinforced the front, since it twisted like a pretzel the first time I turned the thing too fast ). I still use this currently to take apart ships, since the guys with lesser computers complained the one time we built a bigger grinder. I'd love a bigger one, since it can take 10 partial swipes to get a military transport broken down (since the reverse thrusters stick out to the sides, I can only go so far in before starting another swipe).

    4) In building ships (mostly modifying captured ones, since I'm entertaining myself running a 'salvage base,' so everything starts out as a capture/salvage), I needed more fine control. So, I built a merge block ship that accepts multiple attachments, including a single and dual grinder setup. The single setup is good for removing single blocks, or for tight areas, whereas the dual one is decent at grinding up insides of ships so I can mod them but keep the general shape on the outside.

    5) Planned: Redesigning the 'modpod' (My name for the merge block ship) so that the large cargo container each attachment has is static on the ship, rather than integrated into the attachment, so I don't have to move parts from one attachment to another (there is a single, dual and six-welder attachment for the pod as well). I can also get the single welder attachment into tighter areas that way, since manually building 20 large ship gyros is something you only do once before you figure out another way.
     
  16. SeeJayEmm Apprentice Engineer

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    My world is rather new but I have 2 approaches.

    1. I use compact "tugs" with modular tools that attach via merge blocks. The tools are all self contained. A merge, a med or large cargo container, a connector and full sized conveyors connecting to the grinders/welders. These are never meant to go far and I don't usually run into capacity problems. The tugs themselves do not have/need storage capacity. The connector sits in the center of all the tools and easily connects to a station docking boom.

    2. I have a flat array of large grinders attached to my station. Above it is an arm of auto-locking landing gear that swivel down and push the "to be demolished" pieces into the grinder array. It works quite well for large ship chunks. I do get some strays but they're easily managed.

    My two problems with approach #2 are that it's not quite large enough yet and I still haven't come up with a viable utility ship that can move the large pieces in place with minimal effort. I'm almost tempted to make a large variant of my "tug" ships and take the time to construct merge blocks on the pieces I want to dump into the grinder. I have a feeling building a merge block would take less time than I'm currently spending trying to move large uneven loads into the grinder array.

    I can post screenshots later (I'm not @ home).
     
  17. kristakis Junior Engineer

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    607
    I found it unsafe to use gravity+mass because the pit is small and stuff can topple and crash or fall outside. I also found that using a bulldozer (which I called 'The Hand') was inefficient (2nd vid took almost an hour) and dangerous (nearly crashed in the 2nd half of the vid and lost a landing gear at the end), so I prefer ship-based or rotor-driven setups now.

    I currently use Mr. Chomp for grinding down smaller things like rogue ships or making changes to the station and have a 'Lemon Juicer' setup to consume starter ships. I will post some video of that in action later but it has two panels of grinders that open like a venus flytrap.


    When I first built the pit there was some issue with conveyors not moving parts from grinders (grinders having just been introduced) so I set this up to ensure all the parts went into the one collector. You can see the lag ease up just as the last few pieces fall.

    These days I use half as many grinders and conveyors work properly so it doesn't lag anymore. But yes it was very relaxing sitting there watching the loot come down in slow motion.
     
  18. Geneticus Senior Engineer

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  19. GreenGod Trainee Engineer

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    Very nice! A couple questions:

    -Is it as simple as slapping an artificial gravity on a ship and switching off the dampeners?
    -What do you set your gravity generator at?

    That is certainly one of the most menacing builds I've seen yet in SE :thumb:
     
  20. kristakis Junior Engineer

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    now that is an epic grinder pit!
     
  21. nilloc93 Trainee Engineer

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    I'm using a ship with a utility tail (engines are mounted on wings instead of the back) and I use merge blocks to swap out a ~7X10 set of drills/welders/grinders as needed, this lets me grind through most normal sized ships fairly quickly, while also keeping my ship multipurpose.
     
  22. Raz0rking Apprentice Engineer

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    pfft..i have one with over 2500 grinders...works pretty well (kills my framerate for a second).
    Just maintenance is a bit..h :woot:
     
  23. rjustice2006 Trainee Engineer

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    Either of these built in survival?
     
  24. Raz0rking Apprentice Engineer

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    Eh...nope. I have unfortunately also a rl..or else..:woot:
    But i switched the game to survival and now i am trying to build a big ass battlecruiser.
     
  25. Diplomatti Trainee Engineer

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    I don't understand why ships don't fall into my grinder as it has a gravity generator on it.. The ships are all switched off, surely they should be affected by the gravity gen?

    I keep breaking mine because i think i push ships in too hard, infact last ship i grinded up i chewed up the front of my pushing ship too :(
     
  26. Jurriën van Dongen Trainee Engineer

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    The only objects that are actually affected by gravity are:

    - Astronauts
    - Ore
    - Materials
    - Artificial Mass blocks (when powered)

    And yes, you need to be gentle with tools.
     
  27. TwoHedWlf Trainee Engineer

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    Throw an artificial mass block plus a reactor on the back of the ship if you want to use gravity. Then the artificial mass will be one of the last things to be ground up.
     
  28. Xandalis Trainee Engineer

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    I know... I've been working (in creative however, do not want to spend the months it would take in survival to build my idea) on a similar system... on the bow of a massive ship. However between the size of the hull, and the grinder maw, things are... nearly unplayable. And that's with everything off. Might have something to do with the ship being what amounts to a combination of the Planet Killer from Original Star Trek, and a not-to-scale Heighliner, which is over 750m long, with a 125x125m profile...

    Good luck with that build though, I hope you're able to keep it within the limits of your tolerance for sluggishness. :)

    edit: I should probably mention just for post relevance, that I'm staying away from design elements that can't be replicated in some form in Survival settings, even if it's a major PIA to do it.
     
  29. Maaitz Trainee Engineer

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    Im using standard flat surface grinding wall. I made it about 25x20 block size so I can fit in the large military transport ship, but instead of covering the entire space with grinders, I made rows of grinders separated with one row of space. This made my Grinder wall operational much sooner.

    So far I am using a towing ship to push the ship with a speed of 0.1 into the grinders, later Im thinking about arms, that will push the ship towards the grinders, making the process more automated.
     
  30. Sergeant Snuggles Junior Engineer

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    I dont have screenies to hand to prove my work but I will give you a little outline of how I go about grinding up the big boys....

    I have a couple of worlds that have similar setups (why change a method that works if there is no benefit) but my pride and joy at the moment is my Unity Prime Station ship. Im not artistic in design aspects so my ships and stations always look terrible but are functional and as efficient as I can make them. Unity Prime started as your average space station but as most have found stations dont provide you enough flexibility so it was converted to a large ship shortly after construction began. Large thrusters are in each corner of the external shell to give decent movement speeds even at its current 25mil kg weight.

    Unity currently has 200 grinders arranged in a very simple thin rectangle vertically from the base of Unity (imagine arm chair shape, all the good stuff in the bottom area and the support going up the back) with another much smaller thin rectangle of collectors laid along the bottom as a sort of flowerbed. Underneath this construction is the heart of the station where you can find all the containers and boring other stuff that we arent here to talk about! Originally Unity had over 1000 grinders in the same configuration and was perfectly capable of grinding the largest of NPC ships in a single stroke (a method I will explain later) and multiple smaller ships simultaneously. Turning on the original layout managed to reduce my game to tears for the first few seconds and then it would level out again and the game would run......enter large cargo ship to be ground up and were back to 10fps :( I noticed during the process though that ores were being lost as their containers were ground up and they were actually damaging the station due to the gravity pulling the ores at high speed right down into the heart of it!

    I changed the initial design to dramatically reduce the number of grinders (ships now enter sideways) and then placed collectors at the bottom and increased the gravity field to pull items down quicker. Turning Unity on now does not kill the game and it is still capable of taking in the larger NPC ships in one go as well.

    The method I use for guiding the ships in (though this is due to change when I finish a decent Tug) is to naturally pilot the cargo ships back to Unity first (turn off inertial dampeners and get it up to 40m/s then just wait until I arrive.) Once the ship is positioned in front of the grinders I again turn off the inertial dampeners and use its own thrusters to move it at 1m/s towards them. Once you are at this speed just jump out and watch the ship be slowly but perfectly ground up and any overflow such as ores falls neatly into the waiting collectors at the base. I have tried going slower to avoid damaging the grinders but I found if you go less that 1m/s the parts would often drift more than then should due to being knocked around a little bit by other pieces. If you increase to much higher than this speed you run the risk of parts not being ground quickly enough and the ship losing speed to the point it changes direction and you have to start again....hopefully with enough thrusters left to do so form the ship itself!

    A huge plus though and it must be considered by anyone doing this sort of thing, your station has to have the ability to compensate for movement, I know a lot of people like to use arms to push items in etc which is another good way of doing this however ive never been a fan of essentially spanking items into place ;) my method works just as well, is relatively quick and if you keep a spare battery and solar panel on hand (I have the components to build each in a container off the conveyor network to prevent accidents) then you can fly out to a ship and place them on it, move to the next ship while it charges up and then come back for it when you are ready to take it in.
     
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