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Large Ships: Not Viable for Survival?

Discussion in 'Survival' started by Buddymcfriend, May 20, 2014.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Buddymcfriend Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    34

    <table width="100%" style="table-layout: fixed; color: #000000; font-size: 13px;" cellspacing="0" class="post_body" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tbody><tr><td colspan="2" valign="top" style="word-wrap: break-word; line-height: 1.6; background-color: #f7f7f7; padding: 6px; border: 0px; text-align: center;" class="post" height="100%">I'm glad people have responded in a myriad of ways, from laziness to helpful suggestions to making the time go by quicker. Thank you all, I hope we can keep talking about how it really is out in space.

    This topic is not about laziness or effort values.

    What we are discussing is the time it takes to construct a large ship, time being a bit.. relative. Everyone does something while they construct/mine. And if not, they have a specific strategy on how to get through the project.

    • At the current build in survival mode (arguably single-player), all creative respects aside; is a large-ship worth building? Are the returns worthwhile? Do you really need a portable hangar/refinery?
    • Also, morale is very important in survival, be-it real life or video game. What gets you through?

    One could also say that asteroids really aren't that big. A small mining vessel with a medium sized cargo container is perfectly suited to mine as much as your brain can handle before returning to base. Now, if one's base IS the large ship, that's a different situation. Then a ship would essentially be viable since your creativity has guided you in a way to create your own role-playing experience.

    Let me know what you think! I'm very curious to know.


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  2. TychoCEO Trainee Engineer

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    26
    It depends entirely on what you find fun. Some people love the solo grinding experience, the "I built this with my own two hands" feel. I'm in your camp though, and I only enjoy constructing large ships in survival as a team effort, largely for the reasons you mentioned. Solo survival I can only stand 3-3-10 at a minimum.
     
  3. Meanderfast Trainee Engineer

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    6
    I have to agree; but I think the bottleneck is at the welding stage not at the production. If you become proficient at capturing cargo ships you can get as many materials as you need in a reasonable time frame, but; even if you have the materials to hand it takes a mammoth amount of time to weld them into place.
    Even if a better welder isn't added in the next patch, just improving the speed of the hand welder until a real mechanical solution is implemented would do a lot to lubricate new players entry into the game.
     
  4. ozarkamax Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    542
    they will almost certainly revisit survival but I wouldn't expect it to be high priority.
     
  5. Buddymcfriend Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    34
    Oh capturing cargo ships is easy, I just don't do it. It's too damn easy. I had a ship graveyard in my asteroid and then I just stopped. I'm about to post about my mining vessel that's just.. beast.. Thousands of ore in minutes.
     
  6. whistler118 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    139
    The Devs have already said they are planning AI welding drones and things like this to help with the laborious task of welding.
    I do agree, at the current build, making big larger ships is just too boring but the copy and paste function still works so I would suggest that if you can't be bothered to make a large ship in survival just make it in creative and then copy it over. In future updates this will all be sorted out.
     
  7. DDP-158 Master Engineer

    Messages:
    3,748
    Every time I see a thread like this it usually becomes a matter of time. I ask the same question every time: Are you on a deadline?

    I think in most cases the player thinks big and then simply feels overwhelmed by the project if it isn't done within a week. It's not present in this thread, but often times the user comes to the forums and compares their time to somebody who has twice or more free time and it boggles my mind as to why they would do that. To my knowledge there is no race.

    It is possible, you just have to ask yourself just how much effort you are willing to put in to it. You can even pull a death star and get vital components running while there is still a shell to weld. Just break it down into different projects and focus on those individually rather than looking at the ship as a whole.
     
  8. ctiberious Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    196
    My biggest issue with building large ships boils down to how little time you have to weld before you have to go recharge again.

    Welding time isn't a huge problem for me. I know that the devs have said they'll be adding stuff to reduce that time so I can wait. And if I can't wait, I can always just go into the content files and change the welding time. Cut the large, heavy block welding time from 24s down to 8s and suddenly welding hundreds of them isn't so much of a daunting task.

    Carry capacity is annoying, but you can always set things to X10 to mitigate some of that. Plus, having small haulers near where you are working, loading with your supplies, helps.

    But regardless of how short you make the welding time, or how much you can carry, you only get 4-5 minutes of active time before you have to stop work, go find a cockpit and sit, twiddling your thumbs while your suit recharges. We need the ability to change the amount of time we can be actively welding/grinding before having to recharge. My belief is, if we could weld/grind for 15-30 minutes between recharges, then large scale mining wouldn't be so tedious, no matter how large of a ship you were trying to build.
     
  9. DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    3,748
    The welding between cockpit breaks I can totally agree with. I try to cram as much in as I can between trips and usually get to a seat or bay with >2%.
     
  10. GothicRebel Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    88
    I have a lot of fun designing and building large ships (always on x1, x1, x1). I agree that welding can be tedious, but only if you concentrate on it. I've gotten into the habit of laying out the wire frame of the section I want to weld, then while I'm welding it, I'm thinking about the next section or keeping an eye out for a specific cargo ship, sometimes I'm doing nothing more than reciting my favourite comedy sketches in my head. As for recharging the suit interupting the construction, again I've tried to turn it to my advantage. I park one of my small ships nearby in such a postion that it has a commanding view of the ongoing project, allowing me to assess how the overall design is coming together. I've even challenged myself from time to time to complete a section before the next recharge.

    In my opinion, when you're building a large ship, you should think about how you spend your time throughout the whole build, not just when you're placing blocks and welding.
     
  11. Vermillion Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,131

    They said no such thing. Players said that.

    What the devs actually said was that they're planning on adding a buildable machine called a Constructor, you build a cage and the arms and supply it with components and it builds a ship inside the "cage".
     
  12. darthraider Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    13
    I completely agree. Tedious, yes from time to time, but not that bad when you concentrate on the job at hand. I break a project into smaller parts that i try to complete before
    moving on the next part (like, reactors, right thrusters, front bridge window, etc.) It seems to make large projects more manageable.
    And you do not need to complete it in one go. I regularly take breaks, either refilling the cargo ship, helping other players out, expanding base, grinding a ship down because i need the materials,
    or well, just hanging around.

    If you keep a small ship nearby, you get multiple advantages, a place to recharge, usually still reachable with 2% power left if you keep dampeners off on your suit, just pass by, press T when close.
    You can fit the smaller ship with a cargo container to carry stuff from assembler to project.
    Fit the ship with spotlights so you can see what you're doing.

    I completed a medium sized cargo hauler and a support cruiser that way. Took me 5 gameplay sessions to build (I only play in the evenings), some help from a few friends. And I did take regular breaks.
     
  13. Lord_Mareck Trainee Engineer

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    11
    Firstly. WHA HAHAHAHAHA. hehe he ehe heee hehe

    ahem... Well building a large ship is completely viable.

    Just stop being lazy and work at it. good things come in time.
    I heard the same junk in minecraft, Dwarf fortress and others.
    Always the lazy people complaining about the time.

    Star destroyer in survival is at least 100+ game hours. using a massive miner for resources to reduce time wasted on it.

    All good things come in time and effort.
     
  14. Deggy Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    51
    Things made of large-ship blocks are totally viable. On the Astro server we have several large ship and station builds.

    However, that 1:1 model of the Starship Enterprise you wanted to build? Might want to stick to Creative on that.

    Large-ship blocks are fine. It's the sheer SIZE of the stuff people want to build that's the problem at the moment.
     
  15. Stiletto Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    381
    Large Ships Non-viable? Please.

    I'm mostly do stuff in single-player survival and pretty much accepted that welding alone is going to take time and effort when it comes to larger ships and/or stations.

    You can argue with the old "Oh, but I don't have time to spend from six to eight hours per day in welding blocks in a game, I have a life and all!". Well, I don't have that kind of time either per day to weld blocks either. It's all a matter of sitting back, relaxing and enjoying watching your large/massive creations taking shape with the limited amount of time you have to play the game.

    I've built several preeeetty large ships in survival (Even got worlds with 1x1x1 setting), some of them took weeks, one even took me months (more time with the retrofitting for the new content that changed game dynamics). All of this, with the tiny welder you have in your astronaut's hand, having to deal with the small energy capacity, taking trips to recharge and having cargo boats to keep the materials that were produced from mining/refining/salvaging close.

    So, yeah. Lazy people are gonna be lazy. :D
     
  16. Zephandrypus Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    250
    About us being lazy, we are fricken engineers, it's our job to make people lazy. They have added a large ship drill and grinder so I am pretty damn sure that a large ship welder is coming. With the ship builder, cage thing I think you should have to build the ship out the first time so you still get the building experience.

    Also, the large ship welder will be required for space stations as no "cage" will be building that.

    AI drones for welding and other tasks would be just awesome. I would spend hours watching a swarm of drones weld my mother ship because of how awesome it would be. Also, programming your own AI with a visual programming or LUA (you can use either one) would create infinite possibilities.
     
  17. HurricaneGirl Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    170
    I have to disagree. There is plenty of use/room for large ships in Survival, and they have uses beyond what small ships can do.

    I started with a small ship, the Camel and used it to keep my things while I built my station (which is on scale with the large ships). I retrieved a few cargo ships and also had a graveyard until grinders came along. With that graveyard, it's easy to build large ships (easier once you get a grinder array). I started by re-purposing a Mining Carriage into the Molly Brown. Then I built a large ship mover to replace my outclassed Camel. Just last night I completed the refit of the Lady Davenport as my salvage flagship. She's easily three times as big as the Molly, and features two assemblers and refineries, a medical bay, crew quarters and after the refit, she's sporting missile tubes and some heavy armor in key places. I've also expanded my base all the way through the asteroid, since my large ships need more cover from stray meteors.

    All of this was done in survival. It's totally plausible and I've had a blast doing it!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2014
  18. mastpayne Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,385
    My eyes! Puh-leeze don't do that.
     
  19. Buddymcfriend Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    34
    I'm glad people have responded in a myriad of ways, from laziness to helpful suggestions to making the time go by quicker. Thank you all, I hope we can keep talking about how it really is out in space.

    This topic is not about laziness or effort values.

    What we are discussing is the time it takes to construct a large ship, time being a bit.. relative. Everyone does something while they construct/mine. And if not, they have a specific strategy on how to get through the project.

    At the current build in survival mode (arguably single-player), all creative respects aside; is a large-ship worth building? Are the returns worthwhile? Do you really need a portable hangar/refinery?

    One could also say that asteroids really aren't that big. A small mining vessel with a medium sized cargo container (like the one in my other post) is perfectly suited to mine as much as your brain can handle before returning to base. Now, if one's base IS the large ship, that's a different situation. Then a ship would essentially be viable since your creativity has guided you in a way to create your own role-playing experience.

    Let me know what you think! I'm very curious to know.

    (I'm going to modify the original post to mirror this.)
     
  20. Lancar Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,227
    They are worthwhile to build because... well... what else are you going to do with your time? It's fun to build large vessels, ergo we build them.
     
  21. Buddymcfriend Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    34
    Wonderfully said. Quick question, why wouldn't you spent that time into creating a base/station to dock your other ships?
     
  22. BiggLou55 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    358
    Are large ship viable in Survival? As far as how I play, yes they are...

    I use them as my base of operations. I choose not to really build platforms until MUCH later in my survival progression. Now that we have grinders, active turrets, manual rocket launcher pods, and small ship style cockpits small scale Large ships have below even more viable as deconstructors, small scale pirate ships/fighters, etc. Especially since you don't actually have to build and interior (using the enclosed cockpit)... And they don't take that much time. As a matter of fact, I just started a new survival session (started with the crashed ship and 7 asteroids), and I was able to construct a 3-grinder large ship out of light armor blocks with 5 small cargo crates, a conveyor system, 8 small thrusters, 1 small generator, 2 gyros (1 too many actually), and 2 enclosed cockpits in ~2 hours. That included scavenging parts from the crashed ship and mining/refining/assembling....

    The large ship platform is quite diverse. It can be used to create smaller scale ships or huge capital ships. It all really depends on the Engineer and what they want to spend the time building.
    • For some, it's the act of building the ship that they love. Mining and refining resources. Assembling parts. Placing blocks. Welding and grinding.... That's what they love and they don't care about how it's used once built or how much time/effort/resources it took.
    • For others, it's about the final product and how it will be used.. Is the time/resource cost worth it? If not, then what's the point in building it?
    • Then there are those that land between the two extremes.
    Not really sure it's a question of whether or not large ships are worth the time or if it's actually a question about how each of us plays the game. If all of us can find satisfaction in the game and play it our own way, then I say the Devs have succeeded. If there is a way you'd like to play the game that is not possible, then that is definitely what needs to be suggested and discussed...
     
  23. Buddymcfriend Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    34
    I like what you said, I think for myself it's between the extremes. I don't want to construct a useless ship, especially at the speed/rate that constructing and refining is at right now. For example, I spent a good amount of time constructing The Knitty Gritty (below); my mining ship. I truly had a high building it, fitting it exactly how it should be, and it also serves an amazing purpose; getting me more resources!

    So yes, without a purpose, I probably wouldn't even build the ship. If I wanted to do that, I might as well do it in creative mode (which is the whole point of this topic; are said ships viable in survival).

    [​IMG]
     
  24. Shaostoul Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,608
    http://i.imgur.com/UeFGfah.png

    The yellow ship in the background is my main ship. It possesses 4 refineries, 4 assemblers, plenty of cargo. I think large ships are viable, as defending against armageddon meteors is difficult at best when not hiding be a asteroid. Being able to keep my ship on the dark side and move from asteroid to the next has proven extremely useful.
     
  25. Cyber Cheese Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    457
    I don't understand the premise of this thread. Large blocks are the only way to refine and assemble, so unless you survive entirely off of NPC cargo ships, or plan to sit and twiddle your thumbs in an unpoweerd cockpit, you must have something made from large blocks.

    And the only difference between a large ship and station is the trade off of needing a gyro + 6 thrusters, in exchange your entire base can potentially move (although of course if it gets bigger, it needs more parts to move, it will at least be stable with these minimum parts). Even in default SP, the ability to move your base can be a boon to efficiency. If you're in a PVP server, or a server that spreads out the asteroids, it's almost essential.

    Also, the developers said awhile back that they planned to introduce a way to increase weld speed (and potentially automate or remote mining), which will likely rely on large ships while removing the time cost of welding by hand. And to those people posting about how weld speed is OK and we need to be more patient, welding is a nearly brainless task that sinks time, not gameplay. The survival game would be dumb withotu ship mining and grinding; there is no reason that the safest, slowest task should be the one we are forced to tediously perform by hand. Ship mining and grinding are potentially dangerous and require some engineering to improve the speed. There need to be similar ways to increase the speed of welding.
     
  26. Zephandrypus Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    250
    Though you can't hide a ship in a closed off asteroid. You can hollow out an asteroid then build the station in it, but if you build a ship in there it's just going to crash a bunch.

    A large ship welder would be nice, but how would you weld the inside of your ships? That is where the upgraded welder comes in.
     
  27. Buddymcfriend Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    34
    The premise of the thread is clear. In the current build of SE, for what reason would you build a large ship? You answered the question already about PVP (being able to maneuver your ship from asteroid to asteroid), but not for single-player. Survival is a bit wonked out at the moment, so the amount of pure dedication it takes to single-handedly construct a large vessel is daunting.
     
  28. REDSHEILD Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    888
    This is the Monolith, my first survival large ship:

    [​IMG]

    Most of the iron was mined by hand, though a lot of the components (engine and reactor especially) came from the large red ship.

    It took probably about 4-8 hours to build and finish, and it works quite well as a mobile base and refinery. Without it I'd have a much more painful survival experience, as any station would be immobile.
    PS: This is an old pic, so it's not pictured here, but I am also constructing a base in this asteroid, that will mainly serve as a backup spawn point if I ever run out of power.
     
  29. Buddymcfriend Trainee Engineer

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    34
    That's awesome looking ship, you don't feel the refineries are a bit vulnerable?
     
  30. REDSHEILD Junior Engineer

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    888
    It's a pre-conveyor ship so they're at the nose for ease of access. It's on my single player world and I have cargo ships turned off so I don't think there will be problems with it unless I screw up while flying.
     
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