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Limited oxygen supply by default + oxygen suggestions

Discussion in 'Suggestions and Feedback' started by rdee, Dec 21, 2013.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. ataaron Apprentice Engineer

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    293
    well when survival mode goes in and things like asteroid storms get in the game i don't see myself staying in my heavily armored space suit in space for more than half an hour, building and even designing things forever, rather i would paste my blueprint frames from the creative mode and quickly weld those together. make some changes on the go but nothing too big since space wont be a very save place for space suit wearers and smaller crafts. you will all have to get into a large ship or a hollow asteroid to protect your astronaut or your small craft from those events which occur every few minutes (which is much like the solar flare in miner wars).

    small ships should have to carry air tanks
    but only large ships should be able to produce air so they are the backbone of your logistics system.
    and space suits should only carry somewhat around 20 minutes of air which is more than plenty of time to do anything but designing massive ships which should be done in creative mode before as i said .
    6 hours is just ridiculous for a "game" if you don't play the game nonstop you will only replenish it once every few real life DAYS then you could even leave it out entirely without noticing any difference.
    Most of the time players will then spend inside their large ships or stations preparing their gear, crafting/assembling things, managing their refinery and even controlling the large vessel itself while they don't have to worry about air because those have life support with a stable pressurized atmosphere

    so yeah this is my vision for the game
     
  2. Leonhardt Senior Engineer

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    1,930
    This is exactly why this is a bad suggestion.
    It's one thing to impose realistic limitations on a game.
    Another thing entirely to make up arbitrary, tedious limitations "just because".

    So... it's going to magically refill your suit as long as you're within 10ft of it?
    And this was to fix the issue of our suits "magically" having 6+ hours of oxygen?
    Or do you expect us to go and hook up to a generator every few minutes to refill our stupidly small oxygen tanks, because that's totally not tedious or needlessly annoying?
     
  3. mazaraz Trainee Engineer

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    54
    Also considering the fact that say you did have "magic valves" that let air in, CO2 out and keep you from depressurizing from vacuum, the air alone within the suit would be more than 20 minutes worth, add to that air tanks... How does this make sense?

    YOUR vision of a game called SPACE ENGINEERS is to sit inside your ship and and manage your refinery??? REALLY? Not Engineering things in SPACE?
     
  4. Veleno92 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    79
    I created a proposal that joins your by a look.
    serves for the production of oxygen

    http://forums.keenswh.com/post/oxygen-creation-6682115
     
  5. SaturaxCZ Senior Engineer

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    1,718
  6. The_Director Junior Engineer

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    756
    Ok so I was reading page 1 and then I got bored of hearing how it is or isn't feasible and how it should or shouldn't be done.

    The answer here is simple.

    You can play "hardcore" and have limited oxygen, say 10 minutes (remember this is a game, 6-10 hours of air is way too long, and 30 minutes is a chore, not a good game.

    Naturally, sandbox mode should be unlimited.

    As for refilling, all you need is to be inside a air filled ship, and a compressor on the air tank will take the air and refill the tank. I think there is a scrubber for space to get air for big ships.

    For ships without air, make a new block that can hold air, and ways to upgrade your tank to hold longer amounts.

    I am not going to keep going on here, at the end of the day it's the Devs choice, and we the community can always make a mod if we want.
     
  7. rdee Trainee Engineer

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    13
    Stop using the word tedious. It's an incorrect description. And oxygen in a space survival/engineering game is arbitrary? I'm not sure you know what genre of gameplay you're fighting for here. I expect players mostly to stay within limits of their ship/stations. If they're outside of a ship/station nearby (most likely building something) then the second suggestion I had originally proposed (within the first post) would be to have an oxygen hose item which you can hook up to the oxygen generator which would essentially give you "indefinite" oxygen while nearby your station and ships too. So within ships/stations, no difference. When outside nearby, 1 click.

    The only time you're ever going to be scrambling for air is if: A, you don't build oxygen machines; B, you decide to fly off into the distance with your space suit; C, the oxygen machine is destroyed (accidental disaster or PvP).

    How does guns making sound in space make sense? Oh right, because arguing realism is a pointless venture -- even for a realistically bound simulation...Do you want me to go through the list of unrealistic features currently in the game, or are you finally going to come to the conclusion that the realism argument cannot come before appropriateness and gameplay quality?
     
  8. mazaraz Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    54
    I never once mentioned "realism" and for someone so adamantly against realism you seem to keep bringing it up. My point was that the game is called SPACE ENGINEERS not SURVIVE IN SPACE. Granted there is a survival aspect to the game, but the game is about building ships, the survival portion refers to gathering materials to build not needing to grow crops and raise cows, because these would add to the "game play" just like O2. At first I was all for adding O2 meters and all of the tech needed to go with them but arguing that something adds to the game and then attacking anyone's opinion that differs from your own because it "adds to the game" in and of itself is illogical. Having to grow plants to MAKE air runs along the same train of thought, as does collecting soil and making fertilizers and farm tools. Next you'll be asking for big red barns and tractors because they "add to the game". My wife of all people taught me a valuable lesson, that adding more and more and more does NOT mean you have made something better, adding too much can and will detract from the original purpose of the game, which is engineering in space
     
  9. Azan Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    46
    Having said that, if it is a survival game then you do need to have some elements of challenge. Otherwise you have little reason to build anything. Air supply seems to be an obvious challenging aspect of a space based game and would provide a good few requirements for buildings ships which help inform design and improve on that part of the game.

    I think a likely route for air supply will work in a similar way to the mechanics often used in games for air under water. That is a bar that will decrease over time and be instantly refilled when you are exposed to air again. It makes the most sense from a gameplay perspective because there is no overhead for the player in terms of getting air back, they simply have the time critical aspect when they are in vacuum.
     
  10. Oselotti Junior Engineer

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    837
    I like the idea but it should not be too complicated to resupply your oxygen. Perhaps small and big lifesupport machine and you have just to click it and it refills your tank. Also you have to put some basic materials in it. Big version could also take care of big ships and space stations air supply.
     
  11. SaturaxCZ Senior Engineer

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    1,718
    Why click on it ? It can work like clasic ammo box, when you get near it, it will automaticaly resuply ammo, so why not do the same with oxygen ? Place items in case and until you have resources inside it will resuply you automaticaly, when you want change items or see how many is left click on it, or make it visible on box without opening. :D

    This is litl over kill, but have on case 1.display with % oxygen, ammo, fuel or 2.light lines with icon and diferent colored lines for player fast orientation.
    [​IMG]
    1.
    Oxygen 100%
    Ammo 20%
    Fuel 50%

    2.
    :D|----------|
    :cool:|-----|----|
    :eek:ops:|--|-------|

    + it can be interesting give chance players exchange oxygen, fuel, ammo from suit to suit, or steal it from death bodys. :angel:
     
  12. Oselotti Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    837
    I think auto refill gives maybe too much FPS feeling and makes it slighlty too "abstractive". When you klick you plug your space suit on it. But this whole oxygen machine thing idea needs also that you can make ships in creative mode and take files to the actual game mode so you can take your time when making plans. What happens in game is just build that ship already planned.
     
  13. SaturaxCZ Senior Engineer

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    1,718
    Hmm... well i didnt tought trehe will be some sekvence or animation for it, just tought auto refit or get near it press action button ( then window with items will open, with one button caled refit ( for example)) so i will click on refit and its done and im back in game ( PlanetSide2 style ). + you will open difenernt item cases quit ofer so it will be delay for players, before box open 2s delay until sekvence/animation is complete. ( they will get tired of it fast )
     
  14. Gentry Senior Engineer

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    2,167
    I have yet to see a single good suggested iteration of this idea in this thread.

    If you find a way to actually make it an engaging and good part of gameplay then cool, but I have yet to see it.
     
  15. rdee Trainee Engineer

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    13
    The irony -- Guess what the 2 biggest problems Engineers had to solve in order for mankind to go out into space? 1, beating Earth's gravity; and 2, surviving in an oxygenless vacuum.

    But just for your convenience, I'll explain for the final time why your comparisons are retarded. Are big red barns and tractors appropriate to a game bound in space? NO! The argument stops there, you don't even continue to compare, even if barns would be the best thing ever. This is why the slippery slope fallacy is stupid.

    Fortunately not all good ideas require the acknowledgement of Gentry. If you don't see it now, theres likely no iteration you will ever like.
     
  16. Veleno92 Trainee Engineer

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    79
    I read a proposal that relates to the oxygen-limited time, then I came up with an idea that could lead to the creation of oxygen:
    a system of greenhouses that you can do or space stations or large ships

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  17. jon2 Trainee Engineer

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    4
    Anyone suggested suit upgrades & implementation like of course oxygen & exoskeleton stuff and all?
     
  18. Killacyte Senior Engineer

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    1,659
    There are many. Such as:
    http://forums.keenswh.com/post/suit-upgrades-that-are-destroyed-upon-death-7035518?

    If oxygen is ever implemented, then it could definitely be upgraded along with the other stuff in the thread.
     
  19. fusurugi Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    521
    why? you breath out the same amount of oxygen you breath in, you just have to liberate it from the carbon.
    That's why you die when you run out energy.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2015
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.