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Lore/Story Lore of the Phoenix Universe

Discussion in 'Roleplaying' started by Lord Commissar, Apr 1, 2015.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Lord Commissar Junior Engineer

    this topic is fine for WIP discussions. it's kind of the purpose really, just usually winds up being announcements more than anything.

    anyways, i like the lore proposal. just two things:

    1) how does Horus get the cargo ship into low earth orbit given the blockade?

    2) the final bit about them attacking Mars hurts our future plans a bit. I was trying to steer the conflict towards a stalemate so that the outer systems could intervene and spark a third party revolution. here, both Themis and Horus are the bad guys, but the third party would be one that would be more favorable towards its benefactors.

    Your proposal makes Horus a clear winner, which makes this task a bit more difficult.
  2. The Churrosaur Junior Engineer

    Thanks for the advice. I'd actually totally forgotten about the planned intervention haha. The plan I'd kind of had was a brokered truce between the two factions, with Mars and belt claims going to Horus, and an eventual Horus political victory setting up the confrontation with the outer systems.

    On the bright side (not for them) There's already massive discontent with both parties on Earth, and considering prior support for Themis on Mars probably significant opposition to the new regime. The landscape seem pretty ripe for a thit'd party that the people of the Terrestrial systems could get behind. If we want to go with it.

    What kind of party exactly were we thinking about? Obviously popular and backed by the outer systems, but what exactly would their ideology be? Would they be a military organisation or simply a popular movement?
  3. Lord Commissar Junior Engineer

    it would be an organization incited by outer systems agents, and later supplied by them when they gained more support and such trade could have a higher chance of success. the outer system doesnt want themis or horus to win, because either is a threat. the main idea is to prolong the war, but if a third party that favors the outer system were to be completely successful, then that's an idealistic bonus.

    another alternative is that Horus begins to win on Mars, as you say, and the third party rises up in Themis' place to oppose them. This could also happen simultaneous to Themis opposition, so Horus is attacked on two fronts. This perhaps is the most realistic outcome now that I think about it anyway.

    A third party having success against Horus where Themis failed would say a lot to the people, who are already upset with both.

    On another note:

    Did some further late night uniform editing at the Lore III: Military Structure guide.

    The ranks section was replaced by charts of the insignia, making it much easier to understand. I also added Senior NCO ranks, and a modification to the enlisted uniform to help distinguish NCOs.
  4. The Churrosaur Junior Engineer

    Maybe we could have the peace accords split the terrestrial systems- Mars/Luna and Earth/Venus (I guess up to change, I could rewrite the last paragraph)- and have the conventional war kind of 'stagnate'? Supporters on both sides would become increasingly disillusioned about their governments for 'making peace' with the other side- and combined with both governments focusing inwards to quell dissent (Themis crackdown, Horus fighting seasoned Martian insurgents in the desert) this could set the stage for drastic change.

    Maybe a sort of "United Earth" popular movement then springs up on both Terra and Mars under the banner of bringing the Terrestrial systems together under a democratic government that isn't Horus or Themis?
    The outer systems would see this as an opportunity and send arms and agents to incite (or support) insurgencies across both Earth and Mars- prolonging the conflict and potentially setting up a government favorable to them. Horus and Themis being forced to work together to fight the movement could further alienate the people that once stood for them- intensifying the divide.

    Alternatively we could have the outer systems back the Martian Insurgencies (or incite one on Terra) without any unified 'third party'. Whichever government was affected would then blame the other for doing so- and break the truce, plunging the terrestrial systems back into war

    Or if we don't want to stall the conflict at all we could just have the outer systems simply supply whichever side is losing. Although the possibilities of how this would change relations between the Terrestrial/outer systems after the conflict are interesting, it feels like the weakest of the options. I'm also not really sure how we'd make the war continue 'as it is' with the glassing of Hong Kong and subsequent defeat of Themis morale.
    EDIT: I went back and read over the old discussion thread- there's some really good stuff there if we want to transcribe it/link it somewhere-
    if we wanted to keep the action going we could have the outer systems suddenly come in and support Themis as we possibly discussed- with the promise that the ESC will reform its government with their help after the conflict, and not have it even go to a Horus invasion of Mars.
    Or if we go the first route, outer systems backing of the insurgency- eventually leading to open support of the cause- would tie in perfectly with the idea of a Phoenix/CEU re-occupation of Mars. Heavy successes of the seasoned Martian insurgency, and proximity to the belt, would lead to it being a political and military staging ground for the outer systems (we need a better name for this coalition) relief/occupation force.

    1) Horus Themis conflict stagnates into a miasma of popular discontent:
    - Third Party emerges as a popular option-> insurgencies supported by Phoenix -> Weimar Republic/world peace
    - Outer systems discreetly support insurgency against Horus/Themis -> rekindles war -> ???

    2) War rages on
    - Outer systems send agents to fuel the fire discreetly -> war, war, what is it good for? -> ???
    - Outer systems support Themis with promise of reforms ->Themis victory -> Weimar republic/world peace.

    Sorry for taking so long to get back to you.

    EDIT again: About the freighter, I was thinking it was simply hijacked by Horus operatives (maybe operating as pirates in the near belt?) and retrofitted there before being casually sailed back to earth under a routine cargo manifest. I can definitely put some more work into working that out.

    The uniforms are looking nice btw-
    --- Automerge ---
    Pity the RP subforum gets so little exposure.
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2016
  5. Lord Commissar Junior Engineer

    i would definitely go for option 1. although Horus came out as the main baddie, the idea for Themis was that they would be equally uncompomising and more politically evil and corrupt (where Horus would be a military version of corruption)

    A third party already existing makes more sense than the outer systems having that much influence.

    I'd say Horus retakes parts of Mars, and Themis surrenders, going with your most recent write-up. At that point, the Martian colonists are free from Themis control, but of course don't like Horus either. motivated by Themis' inability to act and lack of trust, they move to form their own group.

    at this point, other civilizations can take an interest and offer their own respective deals, should they choose to become involved (feel free to chime in)
    @iN5URG3NT @PyreStarite @Action Hank @Vaskadar @Dwarf-Lord Pangolin @Stefanzo

    As for Phoenix, RIA agents would send weapons to the new party, provided they agree to a non-agression pact between the ESC and Phoenix should they win, and grant Phoenix access to its former Martian facilities. Phoenix support would increase as the party becomes more successful, eventually supplying ships and so on. the primary goal here is to take Mars away from the ESC, and establish a new government that is favourable to the Republic. (Phoenix would not want to expand due to the large stretch of territory, and the presence of the CEU and the belt intersecting the middle)
    • Like Like x 1
  6. PyreStarite Junior Engineer

    I'm not sure how much help IG would be as they mostly focus on their anti-pirate policies in the belt, and I'm trying to write them to be defensive and fast-response based. But as ITI is the one supplying IG, and always having an interest in expanding their markets, could supply the Outer systems alliance with war machines and actual supplies, but would prolly not have enough manpower to spare for a foreign war effort, and will likely keep most of the IG forces defending the belt and ITI's trade routes.
  7. Vaskadar Apprentice Engineer

    Amphion, while associated with the CEU from a business standpoint and cohabiting with them in the belt, still offers expeditionary and utility vehicles to buyers. It is first and foremost, a corporation.

    Its roots hark all the way back to pre-Space Race and Iron Frontier decades.
  8. The Churrosaur Junior Engineer

    Because I don't know where to dump this- your section on lasers before I massacred it

    sorry 'boot that
  9. Lord Commissar Junior Engineer

    Come on @Tristavius, you wrote that the UK wouldn't withdraw from the EU until 2033. now our whole timeline is screwed :p
    (i'm just gonna claim they re-joined some time before 2025 lol)
    • Like Like x 2
  10. The Churrosaur Junior Engineer

    "This was a big mistake" -Britain probably
  11. Lord Commissar Junior Engineer

    Lore III: Military Structure

    has been updated with an "Equipment" section detailing the Armor used by Phoenix soldiers, and their most common weapon, the ELR-9

    • Like Like x 1
  12. The Churrosaur Junior Engineer

    Notes on brainstorming kickback: My and LC’s understanding of science and economics is not perfect, and we may have the totally wrong idea about your civilization/corporation so please, chime in and submit your own opinions and expertise!

    Once again, feel free to suggest, critique, complement, buy churro a pizza, etc. It’s all still a WIP so don’t worry.

    EDIT: holy shit this is a massive textwall. uh.

    EDIT: fixed! now nobody is going to go through the trouble of reading this. oh well.
  13. iN5URG3NT Senior Engineer

    Sorry for breaking the timeline guys! Bloody democracy eh! :D

    Ok, so I'm not letting some dirty oldworlder write our background! Some of this I agree with, but I lot I don't. No matter though, I like where it's going, I'll just have to write some stuff myself. I've not a lot of time right now, but a few points:

    The Third World? "Ceresian Citizens enjoy the highest standard of living outside of Earths Biosphere" We're far too rich to be a backwater. I think of the Ceresian Homeworlds as interplanetary Singapore/Hong Kong, complete with strong stock exchanges, CSX100 anyone? Lack of financial regulation means the CEU works as a tax haven for many chafing under Earth command economy. Obviously inequality is rampant.

    The CEU does not focus on armour, true, but that doesn't mean we are entirely made of tin foil. The HS Destroyers are pretty tough. Besides, why build heavy ships when we can steal earths? :D

    Animosity between Earth and the Belt goes back decades. Every time the ESC's regulation causes a recession, the Belt withholds precious metal exports, a common safe haven investment, driving the price of precious metals even higher than usual. Once the peak is reached, sell, sell, sell.

    This is fun, I'll write more soon.
  14. Lord Commissar Junior Engineer

    --- Automerge ---
    we also have to address the issue of how exactly jump drives are working. up until this point it hasn't been a problem to ignore them, but now that we are talking about Horus slamming ships into earth, and AIR firing jump projectiles, we are dealing with Relativistic weaponry and potentially planet killing stuff here. this has the potential to get extremely OP.

    so, how do jump drives work? this will determine the damage output of jump weapons

    if we are dealing with R-bombs, then i'm inclined to say they can't be put in a weapon because we don't need exterminatus weaponry. however, what's stopping someone from putting a drive in a weapon? is it size? can they not just make a super large shell/missile to fit it? what about ramming jump ships into planets?

    will they be affected by gravity? games like Sins of a Solar Empire don't let ships jump within gravity wells. i like this balancer, but why would this be a thing? can we balance jump drives in another way?

    Up until this point i've been inclined to say Jump Drives are not true FTL, but just super fast ultra-accelerator magic devices. but the advantage to warp drives (FTL) is that by warping space-time, you help negate (theoretically) G-force effects. super accelerators not so much, and then by the time you reach peak speed, you're probably decelerating already.

    It seems to me we are going to have to simply make something up, as physics is not on our side here

    as much as that pains me, here are some possibilities. I would prefer to stay under FTL so we don't get Reletavistic weaponry. further reading here

    Alcubierre Drive - sub-light speed version only.
    Pros: No G-Force
    Cons: how do we end the warp bubble (stop our ship)? what about the hawking radiation? quantum gravity? deadly gamma burst that shoots out when the ship stops?

    Super Anti-matter accelerator magic device - this one gets my vote
    Pros: no radiation bursts. works like a normal engine, just super fast. easy to limit jump drive ranges due to massive energy requirements
    Cons: G-Forces

    Wormholes/Jump Gates

    Pros: limits range of drives to pre-determined points. easy to defend against, because requires wormhole stations
    Cons: does not fit with our current lore, requires ret-cons

    Necessary Balancing Elements and Questions that Need Answers

    needs to have a very limited range, otherwise territories and orbital defenses mean nothing
    would like to see them unusable close to planets, not sure why this would be a thing, though
    they cannot go through solid objects, so no jumping through planets. though this in itself could set a severe limitation, in that jump drives require immense calculations, and space junk could become extremely dangerous. this might be an answer to a lot of our balancing issues.
    what's to stop someone from jumping into a planet and making an R-bomb?
    what's to stop someone from jumping past your fleet or defenses to bomb your worlds?
    similarly, why do we even bother with fleet battles?
    what about ultra-OP jump weapons? how do we limit those?
    what defenses will/could exist against jump drives? can we do like EVE and have webbing? how?
    are there any other interdiction possibilities?

    EDIT: One Possible Solution

    having done a bit more reading on the topic, i think the following may be a good compromise and give us the best balancing options:

    Imagine an Alcubierre Drive, except with a "semi-permeable" warp bubble. This lack of a full warp bubble could exist for two reasons: 1) it requires an impossible amount of energy to go all the way, and 2) semi-permeable means subluminal speeds, and helps to negate the radiation and shockwave issues. Some semi-permeable membrane would also allow any radiation buildups to escape into realspace rather than remaining with the spacecraft.

    The warp path is affected by gravity, and vulnerable to space junk. this means it takes an immense amount of calculations to set up, and even then warp travel is still very dangerous. once you enter warp, you're in it for the ride. you can't see where you're going, and you're cut off from reality. you just have to hope you got it right.

    planetary gravity wells can cause warp paths to collide into them, so all warp paths must take place away from such zones, or risk being pulled in. this is especially true when exiting warp.

    Energy requirements increase exponentially the longer the warp drive is in effect, drastically limitting range

    subluminal flight means the ESC can't just pop on top of Titan and bomb it any time they feel like.
    planetary gravity well restrictions means the enemy has to travel via normal engines to their target, allowing time for defenders to intercept
    vulnerability to space junk means there is a limited set of jump routes, though the shorter the route, the more numerous the options
    energy requirements with very long recharge times force fleets to stop and fight each other somewhere between Saturn and Terra.

    relativistic weapons can still exist, as you can still purposely warp your ship into a planet (i suppose this will just be Mutually Assured Destruction keeping people from doing it, like nukes today)
    physics heresy, but i don't think we're going to avoid that...
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2016
  15. iN5URG3NT Senior Engineer

    Ok, here's a few more ideas, no real order, just brainstorming really.

    Coil Guns are easy to build, I built one in my shed. Unfortunately, at smaller scales, they suffer from saturation. Basically, there is only so much energy you can add to the slug. I'm happy for Phoenix to have figured a way around this, but House Volkov has considered it a dead end for ship weapons. Instead, the CEU will use simple Magnetic Accelerators to move ferrous asteroids, primarily for industry, but will also use the same technology as a crude siege weapon against fixed targets.

    House Ramirez is a shady organisation. As stealth is nigh impossible in space, they will use misdirection to conceal their forces. False Transponders, Hull Facades, Civilian Vessels etc.

    So, how is the CEU the fastest faction, but has the worst thruster tech? Firstly, the Ships are typically light. Secondly, we are Space Radeon, our tech is old, but we have consistently tweaked it for ages and so, while it may run hot and make a lot of noise, but it gets the job done. Basically, we have the best Ion Engines in the 22nd Century, but that's a bit like saying we have the best steam engine in the present. :D Also, overclocking engines by bypassing the already quite flimsy safety measure is also common. I imagine we can probably buy some of the advanced engines?

    Since the Attraction Field/Gravity Generator/Magic-box-that-keeps-us-on-the-ground, the Jump Drive and the Particle Accelerator are all Ceresian Tech, it seems like it would be good if they all worked on the same principle. Ok, so here's the best pseudo-physics bullshit I could think of: Through manipulation of the Higgs Boson, Volkov Scientists are able to change the effective mass of an object within a particular area. This has high power requirements. Stay with me... :D

    Effect 1: Allows simulated gravity in ships by increasing effective mass of flooring within a certain area, but not relative to the rest of the ship. Only suitable for cruising or stationary ships as power is need for thrusters and our ships are not made of reactors.
    Effect 2: Allows the Jump Drive to decrease the effective mass of a ships hull, greatly increasing the acceleration of the vessel. At the same time, the mass of the front of the ship is increased relative to the crew, negating most of the resulting G's. Yeah, that sounds like bullshit.
    Effect 3: Allows Particle accelerators to decrease the mass of particles to allow high acceleration via the beam, as the particles leave the chamber, they begin the increase in mass. Another reason they are short range.

    On Economics, so far we have Themis, a spawling, inefficient bureaucratic command economy. Horus, a militaristic dictatorship on the moon. (Needs a leader name). Phoenix, which seems to be a Mixed economy. UC, no idea, frontier economy i guess. The CEU is a low tax, low regulation capitalist economy. I wouldn't say we were Ferengi, but we are getting there. Needless to say, this has resulted in most of the wealth being concentrate in the hands of a few, namely, the Great Houses. That being said, the Citizens, which, by the early 22nd Century should number around 12-20 million, are also rich, partly through their earnings as Civilian and then as Citizens and partly through the land they are given when they are made citizens. This land can be sold, and by the early 22nd Century, the land available is running out, meaning land prices are very high. (Might make a grab for Callisto, obviously negotiations, not war) VAT is high, income and capital gains tax are very low. Tax funds social security for citizens, but not civilians. The notable exception is Magoro, which operates as a socialist collective and bargains collectively. They also do not own land individually and tend to live in stations, often alongside their many skyfarms.

    The Government of the CEU is comprised of three parts. The Council, The Parliament and The Lords. Citizens are represented in the Parliament through Proportional Representation. 3 Delegates from each House make up the Council. The Lords is made up of elder citizens selected by the Council and chosen by the Parliament. All three bodies share roughly equal power to propose, repeal and amend laws, but as the Council selects the Lords and most citizens are aligned to a house, the Five Houses and therefore the Council are the de facto rulers.

    Make no mistake, people do become citizens, it what holds this whole circus together. :D It's not easy, but people do and Citizenship is not hereditary. Being born in the Belt to Citizen parents does help massively however, as those children will have had treatments for living in the belt during pregnancy and free schooling as they grow up and they will likely also have their suit bought for them, rather than having to sign a contract and leasing one.

    Born in the suit. For a Belter, nothing is more important than their suit. For those moving to the belt, in most cases this will need to be leased via a house contract. It's not mandatory to sign a contract, but surviving in the belt without one will be... difficult. The suit mitigates many of the problems associated with living in the belt. The rest are covered via biological means. The consumer market for custom suits among Citizens is very healthy.

    While no social support is officially offered to civilians, they are not entirely without a safety net. Magoro's efforts to help the poor and Ramirez' manipulation of them has given them significant influence as the Civilians outnumber the Citizens 4 to 1. This has pushed all Houses to adopt initiatives to maintain their standing and most contracts now contain several perks to attract the best candidates and ensure their loyalty.

    Belters live in a pretty hostile environment. This has changed them in several ways when compared to the average Terran or Martian. This gives me a couple of ideas. Firstly, native Belters are notably skinnier and physically weaker than the average human and can not stand up on Earth and would struggle unaided on Mars. Without their suit they cannot survive as a Terran or Martian could. Planet Sickness might be a thing. On the other hand, and entire life in space, combined with some of the best spacesuits around makes them exception well suited (badum, tish) for spaceship crews. Not only that, the CEU Constitution enshrines the Right to Pilot, this ensures a good level of competency throughout the belt. Secondly, Belters are starting to become noticeably different to others both physically and culturally, this has lead to a common culture in the Belt and so it's inhabitants are likely to be resistant to the propaganda of other factions.

    The Right to Pilot. Although some regulation is in place, this means anyone can own an armed vessel. A small spacecraft is often the first major purchace for a civilian, and many contracts require the ownership of such a craft.

    Ok, that's it for now, but I'm sure i can think of more. Feel free to give feedback.
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2016
    • Like Like x 2
  16. Lord Commissar Junior Engineer

    the problem is, @iN5URG3NT , that you can't get a high thrust with ion drives. it's just physically impossible. if you want to use chemical rockets, that would give you large thrust while using retro tech, and an easy platform to make numerous improvements while everyone else moves on.

    i had listed the CEU as using anti-matter engines, which fits with your mastery of the jump drive. but if you don't like that, chemical is probably the way to go. or fusion, but the ESC is already on that train. if we go with my semi-alcubierre proposal above, then the drives work by providing enough "negative energy" theoretical physics handwavium to then do some weird space time nonsense and bring the ship along for the ride. if i recall correctly, anti-matter could be one way to provide this negative ergy thing, thus the anti-matter engines of the CEU - which would also be more powerful than anyone else's thrusters

    or just super future saturn V engines. but ion makes no sense

    we also dont have the CEU listed as using any coil or rail tech. just autocannons, missiles, and particle accelerators. you can view the armory guide in progress and let me know if you have any issues with it

    as far as gravity goes, i'm still not ready to make anything canonical in that regard. but i'd much rather bend as few physics as possible. if we're going to try and justify it, i'd much rather go the route of graviton manipulation to accomplish the creation or (more likely) amplification of existing gravity fields. this would basically be the same as how we manipulate EM fields today, just with gravitons instead of electrons. changing the mass of objects smells too much of heresy
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2016
  17. The Churrosaur Junior Engineer

    Damn 5urge, we need you writing more lore for us :p

    Honestly about the CEU I was thinking more about the parts of the belt that aren't necessarily under full control of the great houses. While there's great wealth and opportunity to be found, as you said, I feel like there would also be great inequality. While you have an amazing standard of living for the 30% citizens at the top, I figure a lot of this wealth would come from things like (basically) peasant miners and factory workers and indentured servitude for necessities such as suits and protection from pirates. The whole idea of a 'low regulation capitalist economy' feeds into this. I'd figure that - while there are many who can, and do obtain citizenship- there would be those for whom even something as simple as joining the military would be out of reach- even with efforts by the houses to help non-citizens. Basically I took that fact that you were a bunch of warring pirates fighting each other for food a few decades ago- and that until now the CEU had a rather informal fractured government - and made a few conjectures tinged with good old Terran racism.

    Speaking of that, I could totally see something like the physical and cultural difference between native belters, terrestrials, and rimworlders leading to things like 'specialization' (real or stereotyped) for each 'race' and ultimately racism, discrimination, all that juicy human stuff. It's not exactly an original concept but hey.

    About 'living up to your resource potential' honestly I was thinking more to just the separate houses having trouble working together for huge capital-intensive projects like dreadnoughts or battlestations - why the CEU has a mostly frigate/destroyer "lighter" fleet, based on using agility to hit above their weight class.

    Also hiring mercenary pirate fleets, because it would be a narrative shame if you didn't :p

    Does this seem more right? I think the CEU is one of the most interesting factions out there, please don't take this the wrong way.

    About thrusters, honestly if we're going by the theme of CEU having exotic technology we could even work out something like gravitational mass drives or something, although that might be a little bit cheaty. Refined Ion tech could work, but as LC said, it's a little bit impractical. It could just be a design choice really, large engines and low mass.

    -- to be totally honest, I feel like trying to balance the extreme variance in technology we've found ourselves with seems a little bit too 'gamey' and a little less like the real world- considering how IRL technology gravitates towards finding the single most efficient solution, and plagiarism and all that. Admittedly this is a worldbuilding exercise based off a sandbox videogame so what am I even saying --

    ...The other civilizations of the galaxy called it...
    ... MASS EFFECT ...
    *cue synthesizer theme music*

    I'm sorry, I love Mass Effect. Honestly though, I'm with DL in that having mass manipulation puts us a bit more high tech than our world kind of seems to be at. TBH even graviton manipulation is a little bit scary. Although, once again, I could have this totally wrong- I'd been personally thinking of our world as something like in The Expanse series or Firefly where you have don't have FTL, but the time table and scale place it narratively similarly to sometime in the last couple hundred years of naval travel- pretty contemporary naval travel for us.
    But I guess the fact remains that we do have jump warp drives... If we keep the world the same I suppose could justify it for myself as the invention of the airplane haha.

    On the bright side, I feel like having gravity wells disrupt the warp/jump/etc. seems to deal with Exterminatus weaponry- as being brought out of your spacetime dilation all you'd be left with is whatever your initial velocity was inside the reference field of the warp bubble/whatever.

    Or is this how that would work? I actually don't know nearly enough physics or general science fiction canon.

    I'll give my two cents however on how this might pan out strategically.
    Not being able to warp close to celestial bodies seems to be sufficient for the conflicts we've seen so far. Invasion fleets have to approach at speeds relative to the planet (and therefore the defending fleet) from a distance, allowing engagements to occur; and blockades can occur with a blockading fleet defending the edges of the gravity field (to whatever tolerance our drives have), preventing the besieged from getting a place where they can use them.

    This prevents things from really happening in deep space, but honestly there's nothing really there anyways. Except for really well hidden stations- and honestly if you find them you deserve to be able to jump in and blow them up.

    I'd assume we'd also have some way of detecting ships in warp. That way it wouldn't be possible to have a surprise party bombardment fleet pop up in front of Titan. If you had the right network of spies and scouts you'd see it coming and have time to prepare, much like for a conventional attack.

    Maybe if warping only allowed you to accelerate in a single vector ala ingame, there would be certain scenarios where a fleet would have to come out of warp to 'change course' or bypass an asteroid that happened to cut across their approach vector. You could have narrative scenarios where the defenders 'race' the invasion fleet in warp to bring in reinforcements to these points or set up an ambush.
    Giving us some sort of warp interdiction would allow this to happen much more like in 'traditional' naval engagements.

    Straight up jump drives shake things up pretty hard core. Although Galactica seems to provide a pretty good frame of reference to go by.

    On a totally different note I guess infantry-scale coilguns are a pretty dumb idea huh.

    Also I'd imagine the ESC economy more like China- not quite a full command economy, but heavily regulated. I'm leaning more towards there being separate currencies between the different states and mars, as some sort of buffer against stagnation and regional shocks- although the ESC itself would have powers over each nation's central banks if need be. Although I could just add onto the whole ESC as a bigger Soviet Onion thing and do a universal currency. Honestly modern China seems a like pretty good representation of the ESC - enough economic freedoms to keep people relatively complacent about the propaganda, censorship and blatant abuses of democracy and power- although maybe I'm giving it too much credit.

    -- @iN5URG3NT check out the CEU section of the weapons guide, I feel like you might want to make some changes. Also feel free to make jabs at the ESC part.

    Edit: Jump drives are Foy tech you silly goose.

    Edit: LC, that orbital bombardment laser pic is pretty sick.
    Also that article on FTL you linked is very relevant. I think we all should read it.
    Edit: I just spent three hours on that website. goddamn.
    --- Automerge ---
    Also textwalls- should we make spoiler-sections mandatory or is this ok?
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2016
  18. Lord Commissar Junior Engineer

    • Like Like x 1
  19. The Churrosaur Junior Engineer

    Yeah, I guess what I was thinking was that getting too close to a gravity well would somehow disrupt the warp bubble- leaving you simply with whatever energy you had without it.

    Maybe this sudden collapse of the warp bubble rips you back into continuity with some amount of violent force? Considering the energies involved it would probably be enough to completely vaporize a ship- although narratively it might be better for being ripped out of warp to cause heavy, but not catastrophic, damage.

    the more I think about it, the more stations 'hiding' in deep intra-planetary space seems like a pretty dumb idea. Maybe recon probes, but anything bigger you're probably going to want to hide within something. Maybe naturally radioactive asteroid clusters?
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2016
  20. Lord Commissar Junior Engineer

    ah yes, i like this idea. that makes it much harder to use jump weaponry, as the projectiles might simply get ripped apart.

    so yeah, lets go with ships not warping inside gravity wells because of a gravitational warp bubble collapse destruction thing. and yes, can be heavy damage vs total destruction, but smaller ships are more likely to just disintegrate.
  21. The Churrosaur Junior Engineer

    Awesome. Should I rewrite Horus hitting Terra as simply 'rods from the gods' kinetic bombardment? Although to be totally honest, I'm not sure how the ESC wouldn't have a contingent for that.
  22. Lord Commissar Junior Engineer

    no, we'd need something that they could get past defenses with. the first ships to impact were just cargo freighters, so could be a hijacking, navigational hack, or Horus sympathizers.

    the big one is a bit harder, since it's a military ship. maybe the Horus fleet moves out in full force to accomplish it or something
    --- Automerge ---
    The Solar Amory Guide is finished and uploaded. Note that this does not say it is complete, as we are still in the process of adding Foy, but that will be in likely a month or two or more, so I am just going to add Foy later.

    As for the rest of you guys, @PyreStarite @Vaskadar @Skeloton @Action Hank , let me know what sort of weapons you would like to have your factions use. If you do not respond, we will assume you operate weaponry similar to your benefactor. (ex: Amphion will use the same sort of weapons as the CEU).

    That being accomplished, it is time to return attention to the earth guide. let me know what you think of the following:

  23. Lord Commissar Junior Engineer

    @Swanicus @Tristavius @Tyriosh

    im thinking about dissolving the Ministry of Society from Phoenix politics. this means the end of Republic Mining & Logistics (which would result from the amount of corporations that prefer corporate sources like KUS and CDI), it would throw the Republic Trade & Diplomacy under the Ministry of Defense and rename it Republic Customs (basically the US Coast Guard), and make the Ministry of Intelligence on an equal level with the Ministry of Economics and Defense, which further restricts its ability to act inward on delegates it to the ISS or RTD. Minor "Civilian" States would be fully dissolved, bought out by corporations. This could all be a result of the globalization of Phoenix after the Europa Accords. any thoughts?

    that being said, would the three of you be interested in buying out the corporations of:
    Uyuni - Entertainment
    Mackay - Mining (formerly owned by RMLA)
    Huygens - Educational (astronomical universities)

    pick only one. All three territories are on Titan. i have votes from XER and HLF already. PFS will not buy any corporations, we get the spotlight too much. If two people claim the same corporation, i'm going with dice rolls. i'll try to connect with you guys the next i see you on steam too.

    also, (this will be relevant to @Howitz and @Dudred too) i'm considering adding an Executor office above the Senate. the reason being is the RIA needs some kind of check to make sure it doesn't use its independence in any tyrannical way. however, it's also difficult to keep the RIA in check and maintain the secrecy that is necessary to its operation at the same time. If the RIA reports to the Senate as a whole, that's many people who know the Republic's darkest secrets, and only work on 4 year terms. they can then go back home and wikileaks some pretty incriminating stuff.

    focussing the check on fewer individuals (1 - 2 Executors) makes this task easier. but of course what if an Executor wants to get too powerful?

    if you can think of other alternatives, let me know. i'd like to avoid having an Executor in general, as I like the efficiency of a pure Republic.


    Added a new guide, Lore II: Republic Politics detailing the political structure (now reformed) of Phoenix. It also gives some detail on the nature of citizenship

    With this comes the dissolution of the Ministry of Society, the minor states, and the RMLA

    The RTD was reformed into the third military branch: the Border Guard. You can now find their uniforms and some information on them at Lore IV: Military Structure
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2016
  24. Swanicus Apprentice Engineer

    CDI would opt in to purchase Mackay.
  25. PyreStarite Junior Engineer

    EDIT: OKAY. Think I finished digesting all that just popped in.

    For weapons, I more or less like the idea of using what is already suggested in the CEU part of the solar armory, being mass projectile weapons and varieties of missiles/torpedos. As I'm not too familiar on how our space weapons work, I will just opt for ITI/IG only building ships, not guns.

    As for Churro's narrative desires, the InfernoGuard is supposed to be written as an ex-mercenary group bought out by InfernoTech to protect their properties and investments, with ITI replacing and installing proper military leaders, values, and training brought over from the ESC/Earth using old connections.

    Need anything else of me/issues?
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2016
  26. The Churrosaur Junior Engineer

    Sorry about that, I just got back from a few days in the mountains.

    Good stuff. It'll be interesting to see if the consolidation of minor states will turn out to be a detriment or benefit to the Republic. It almost seems like a defensive measure to 'protect' the assets of smaller corporations against the new global market- does this seem right?

    Also do we still want some sort of Phoenix economic crisis to come to bear as a result of the Europa accords? We could definitely work this into it.

    Honestly I could see this just left undecided for the time being. It would be a serious contention point in the reformed senate. Lots of bickering for both sides going nowhere, the RIA is slightly handicapped by its new corporate overlords but continues to go about business much as before- much to the chagrin of the common people.

    I'll take a pass through your Martian rewrite ASAP. Events-wise I think it's pretty good- I might add a little bit more back and forth between Horus and Themis before the ESC Navy really starts to hit the shitter post-Luna assault. Maybe explain how said assault was more political retaliation than any military goal. Also I thought my ending of having the Martian invasion as a sort of 'final blow' to an extremely demoralized Themis instead of a afterthought post-truce seems to work better- although please feel free to change my mind.

    Could I also establish/ret-con the Martian/Lunar PD as lasers? It would make a lot more sense as a 'revolutionary' technology- both from it being new and exotic, and as lasers are a good way to break the gravity gauge (see orbital bombardment) between surface and orbit (making an energy efficient defense against an orbital fleet possible). Would also therefore make sense in Phoenix (the descendants of its inventors) having advanced laser technology.
    Lack of its use by the ESC Navy could be explained with the Lunar/Martian defenses being sufficiently less advanced (or based on older technology) than that of Phoenix. Having a planet as a giant heatsink helps keep it viable.

    EDIT: Holy dong I didn't realize you left edits on my original mega-post until just now. give me a few.

    started writing, started doing some math with impulse of ingame thrusters. I'm far too tired. will do later
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2016
  27. iN5URG3NT Senior Engineer

    Hey guys, sorry, I'm not ignoring you :D I'm just taking a little break from SE.

    Yes, there totally are mercenary fleets in the CEU, but it's a little more complicated. There is a state backed main fleet with professional crews that is effectively controlled by House York. Then there is each of the House's fleets. Then there are Citizen contractors, which in turn hire Civilians, then there are non-affiliated mercenaries. Does that make sense?

    CEU and House Fleets = Ships are owned by CEU/Houses. Crews are paid wages, given ranks, pensions etc.
    Citizen Fleets = Are affiliated to a house, a little like bannermen. They own their own ships and hire civilians. Are, paid to participate in battles, raid, bounty hunt etc.
    Mercenary fleets = Non affiliates that are paid to fight, typically non CEU persons.

    You are totally right about the political will to build massive ships. However, the effectiveness of the Artemis, built by York/Tokugawa, should promote cooperation in this.

    Ok, let me know what you think. If you need to know anything else, put a list of questions in this thread and I'll do my best to answer.
  28. Lord Commissar Junior Engineer


    The Earth Civil War guide has been updated with what was proposed earlier, so you can now view the guide instead of digging through forum posts. note that the dates were all bumped up 2 years to make it more plausible that this is happening right alongside the Europa Conflict, which would have already exploded by this point, and help motivate Phoenix and the CEU to wrap it up as quickly as they do.
    --- Automerge ---

    took me the last 5 hours, but i made this armor for Senate Guards. I think the inspiration is kind of obvious here:

    Last edited: Jul 4, 2016
  29. The Churrosaur Junior Engineer

  30. Lord Commissar Junior Engineer

    nice. keep working on ESC armor. now i dont have to :p

    though i do believe they are called "space rangers" not "orbital rangers" how else are you going to fight Zurg and his asteroid belt empire?
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