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Make Coal Great Again! A planetary power source that's easier to set up than nuclear or solar

Discussion in 'Suggestions and Feedback' started by goduranus, Feb 19, 2016.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. tmike Apprentice Engineer

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    107
    I would not have a problem with adding carben, as it has a lot of uses not just in the form of hydro carbens (coal, oil, or natural gas), Right now in the stock game you can make steal plate wit just iorn. sorry that cant be done, all you would end up with is an iron plate not a steal plate. what do you need to make steal? you need iron and carben at least though some forms of steal have other things in it such as tongstion, or manganise. If I was the people that make the Real steal mod, I would probly combine it with the Shail oil mod (since there made by the same people) or if both are used symply replace the shale with carbon... Peope hae ben saying for at least the last 30 years that coal and other hydgrocarbens as a eergy sorce was on the way out, yet most of the power in the us is produced by coal or other hydrocarbens. and germany is going back to hydrocarbens. so I think they will be with us for along time unless we find something that is ether cheeper, or just as cheep per KW hour, there are some intresting ideas on that front. actually things like Thoriam, which would be at least ass effictent as coal, more effection the our current generation of nuceler reacters (why do people then nucerler is so effecient? it only gests less then one percent of the energy potuntel our of the fuel) where as chimical reactions releces about 30-40 % of the energy potical out of the feal. but I tend to think given by how our reacters act that the almost have to be liqued fueled reacters, and you can make those quit small. I dont know why people think a hydrogen fuel sell is a battery. a batter can generate its own fairly week charge (well some can dont know about some of the higher tech ones) but mostly they store a charge, with a hydrgen fuel cell does not work that way, it combions hydrogen and oxagen produseing wather as a "waset" exoust. and doesnt store a charge, there have been some that said that every space cranft that used fuel cells for power also had solar pannels.... I cout that with really? the fight 2 gemini pod? the apallo CSM? the LEM? the space shuttle?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. EstebanLB Trainee Engineer

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    62
    What we need are Hydrogen Fuel cells, ice is still abundant in planets
     
  3. goduranus Junior Engineer

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    512
    Hydrogen is only useful for energy storage, not energy generation. It takes more energy to split hydrogen from ice than energy generated by merging hydrogen with oxygen.
    While solid fuel is unusable, the coal in this suggestion is actually standing in for natural gas and petroleum but the game can't handle fluids yet.
    Factorio is a game where I feel the transition from coal power to nuclear power was done in a very balanced manner.
     
  4. Levits Senior Engineer

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    2,122
    Hydrogen Gas contained within ice and water requires energy to separate and store it. But add in Gas Giants that have Hydrogen in the "upper" atmosphere and you can siphon the stuff up in a continuous, albeit slightly hazardous, way. <with regards to the need to keep the station from falling into the thing.

    Fracking is another potential method to obtain fossil fuels which would do better than harvesting coal in my opinion. <and you don't have to constantly tear up voxel to get it.

    Oil from fracking would still be a viable material for various uses; including adding "rubber" and/or "plastic" as a component for tires, as a fuel source that can be used as a fuel source, and a few other things. It would even be a good choice for a Planet-only fuel source for creating high-performance aircraft and ground vehicles that provides the same (or more) output as the hydrogen thruster, but at a far greater fuel economy.

    Then there's Helium-3 (again a material that can be found on moons and/or Gas Giants) for fusion generators... Antimatter (found/harvested in the .5 or less G area around planets at an incredibly slow rate), which would be the extreme side of things. <Not sure if Antimatter generators would be a thing because you certainly ain't making no thruster out of the stuff without blowing up something... oh, how about Nuclear propulsion ;) yeah, that whole "blow up a nuke to propel a spaceship" thing. That would be fun. <just throwing these things out here.
     
  5. briank Trainee Engineer

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    34
    Remember uranium is found in REALLY SMALL amounts in ore while coal is 100% fuel. So it wouldn't be unrealistic. And yes coal is a stand in for all carbon based guel sources

    I mean, geothermal should exist but they'd probably generate the same rate as solar if its available anywhere planetside exept that it works at night and is consistant (and you'd have to drill a deep hole)
    Uranium REALLY should be locked behind a really high tech purifying device and this allows that without breaking planet side survival starts. For space based starts yeah give wm one of those but for planet sude this is perfect.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Merandix Junior Engineer

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    519
    What would coal do that hydrogen isn't already doing?

    Also, I see the argument that splitting hydrogen from ice is consuming a lot of energy.... well folks, sorry to remind you that in Space Engineers reality, it doesn't. The oxygen generator takes 330 kW to make oxygen/hydrogen at a fairly high pace. Even if they make the upcoming internal combustion engines uselessly underpowered, a large ship internal combustion engine will VERY likely produce more than 330 kW of power. And I'd be surprised if the hydrogen consumption wasn't lower than a small hydrogen thruster. Even with a fuel consumption that high, and a power output that low, an internal combustion engine will produce more hydrogen than it consumes if you keep feeding it enough ice.

    Coal would only be available on Earth-like planets and Alien planets... And that's its main problem. Coal would be processed into coal-dust and could fire a turbine (or the hopefully upcoming internal combustion engine). Basically it would copy the gameplay effects of hydrogen, yet be available at less places, and everywhere there is coal, there would also be ice. To top all that, you can't use coal to produce oxygen, you can do that with ice. And we're still not done, since coal would be buried underground, and ice is available at the surface in great quantities. So coal is redundant, and from a gameplay perspective fairly useless compared to the already available resources. At this point in development, it would be a lot nicer to add things that add new gameplay.

    I do like the idea of a centrifuge block or something to purify uranium ore into uranium fuel. Taking the uranium production out of the refinery, and giving it it's own block. This would also gate uranium nicely. You could even have platinum as a requirement. I like resource gating for gameplay. It also gives purpose to go somewhere.

    Also, to rain on the geothermal plan: there's a wind-turbine in development, that pretty much has the exact same operating principles (it constantly produces power, also at night)... yet it doesn't require you to drill a deep hole. So again, it would duplicate something already in-game that would be strictly better.

    And I honestly dislike the wind turbine for potentially taking the need to properly engineer a solar-based power-solution away. Building rotating solar towers that track the sun through a workshop downloaded script has this distinct sense of fulfilment that plopping down a wind-turbine simply won't have. I hope Keen will implement a mechanic that makes the output of wind-turbines vary, it doesn't have to be actual wind, just something to make its power output less consistent than other sources.
     
  7. sioxernic Senior Engineer

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    2,535
    People are not complaining about SE reality, but real reality. Basic thermodynamics.
     
  8. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

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    2,223
    imagine if coal burners was a way of generating power in SE. :p
    but only on planets with thick or thin atmospheres ....obviously thin producing less power but burns at a slower rate.
    with dirty black sooty clouds of smoke being exhausted out the side or back.

    it'd be like Goblin Engineering from World of warcraft.
    dirty,cheap,dangerous and explosive. goblin products are made to blast.
     
  9. Bumber Senior Engineer

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    1,018
    Not platinum. Having to leave a planet on battery power is a bit risky, since you'll need enough power to work mining and production, and mass is at a premium. You certainly don't want to use hydrogen power until you've found space ice or platinum (ion thrusters.)

    Utilizing every planetary ore type would be better.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. CaD Apprentice Engineer

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    113
    Although this is an oldish thread I thought I should mention, coal and oil will be used for quite some time on new planets because pumping vast amounts of what we call pollution into the atmosphere is the cheapest way to raise a planets global temperature to more comfortable levels. Thats also a similar idea that NASA has for Mars.
    --- Automerge ---
     
  11. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

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    2,223

    oh cool then the voxel ice would melt and we'd have water!
    [don't take that serious i know we're always going to forever have voxel ice because water voxel is too hard for computers and game engine to run -_- ]


    it would be fun if dirty fuels get added and while burning them it created black clouds of smoke.
    it would be kinda atmospheric
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Me 10 Jin Apprentice Engineer

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    463
    Of course! Sepia-tinted ambient light is the epitome of "atmospheric"!

    On a more serious note, fossil fuels are the result of active geology in the presence of a lot of organic matter. Earth is a cornucopia of improbable conditions that would put Goldilocks to shame, so the likelihood of finding fossil fuels on other planets is approximately the same as finding an alien civilization.

    Instead of "coal" or "oil" as resources, SE could have generic "chemfuel" that players could obtain in 1 or 2 ways that compliment early game or limited-resource gameplay.
     
  13. briank Trainee Engineer

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    34
    and we have the ailien planet in SE so.... yeah.
     
  14. Greyson_XMG Apprentice Engineer

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    132
    The advent of internal combustion ( as seen on the teasers ) suggest a new source of fuel is on the horizon.

    It might be coal. It might be oil. It might be harvested cow flatulence.
     
  15. sioxernic Senior Engineer

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    2,535
    It's hydrogen and ice.
     
  16. Forcedminer Senior Engineer

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    2,223

    oh well it should be easy enough to mod it right? :)

    mod it into a big dirty fossil fuel combustion engine. >:)
    and add coal or frozen oil to planets.

    add an oil refinery to get the different grades of oil useful for car fuel,oil burners,plane fuel and....and lighters! for "The Forest style" personal lighting while on planets
     
  17. sioxernic Senior Engineer

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    2,535
    Yeah? But... that wasn't the point of my post though :woot: I was just being informative, neutral, because you don't want to know my opinion.
     
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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.