Welcome to Keen Software House Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the KSH community.
  1. You are currently browsing our forum as a guest. Create your own forum account to access all forum functionality.

Medieval Engineers: Developer Diaries - Episode 15

Discussion in 'Change Log' started by Drui, Sep 6, 2016.

  1. Drui Keen Update Guy KeenSWH Developer

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2014
    Messages:
    1,134
    Trophy Points:
    347
    Summary
    Hello, Engineers! In this week's episode of our Dev Diary series, Medieval Engineers Producer Tim Toxopeus introduces the soon-to-be-implemented World Map and fast travel system for the game. It's also the last week to submit your design to our banner contest, so check out the link to the contest below.
    The reason behind implementing fast travel starts with Planets. Planets have been added to Medieval Engineers because we feel the feature offers a more unique world. Also, it allows us to unify our tech with Space Engineers and the VRage Engine. Moreover, we didn't want to implement an infinitely tiling legacy world, as this would be to similar to other sandbox games and require huge changes to our engine.
    The problem with Planets is that they're very large (10km) and the community is asking for them to be even bigger! However, with such a big planet, it makes it difficult to find and interact with other players. Travel speeds are limited, carts and catapults start to break down, and geographic features (mountains, etc.) get in the way. We want to design the game to support any size of planet, and to be mod-friendly.

    Our solution: World Map. The world map shows you the 6 kingdoms on the planet (where kingdoms are divided into regions, and regions into areas that can be claimed by players). It shows who has claimed which areas and helps you find other players.
    Additionally, we have implemented Fast Travel. Fast Travel allows players to quickly move from a location to another location based on certain rules (namely range, reachability, and cooldown). For our hardcore realism fans out there, you can adjust a number of settings: disabling fast travel, setting the max range you can travel at one time, and setting the cooldown on fast travel.
    We expect you to have lots of questions about the World Map and fast travel, so add them to the comments and we'll get to as many as possible in a Q&A next week.

    Also, be sure to enter your design in our banner design contest! We've received some great entries already. Please remember that there are some rules to the contest - you cannot use more than 3 colors on the banner, you can't use licensed imagery from other IP, and it's important to credit people if you use their art! Check out the details here: http://forums.keenswh.com/threads/7386928
    Finally, join me and Xocliw for a livestream this Thursday on KCN!

     
    • Like Like x 9
  2. Ed Frost

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2014
    Messages:
    902
    Trophy Points:
    152
    epic

    edit:
    do i understand it correctly when i say that every square on the "zoomed out" map is a kingdom, meaning shitloads of kingdoms. or are those round things on the left the kingdoms where you can select between?
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2016
  3. beelzerob

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2014
    Messages:
    255
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Horses confirmed!
    Servants per player confirmed!
    @Xocliw confirmed!

    Look, I just got my entire family (well ok, except the 7 year old) playing Space Engineers....don't go and make ME engineers all interesting too, we can't handle it!
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
  4. Deepflame ME Producer KeenSWH Developer

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2015
    Messages:
    209
    Trophy Points:
    112
    The round things on the side are the kingdoms. There are 6 kingdoms in total. Each kingdom is divided into, currently, 8x8 regions, and each region is, currently, divided into 10x10 areas. :)
    --- Automerge ---
    "Servants per player" is basically the old setting, "Maximum player controlled bots" or something, but renamed to something more sensible. :p
     
  5. MichaelC

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2014
    Messages:
    579
    Trophy Points:
    122
    I think the quick travel icon should be a crudly drawn picture of a horse
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  6. KingdomBragg

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2014
    Messages:
    501
    Trophy Points:
    102
    Looking good. My question for next week is will there be anything to prevent players using fast travel to escape a fight?
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2016
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. mathers

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Messages:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Looks promising.
    Will the player need to build a claim block in each region, or will there be a more intuitive system to expand your claim, for example by having a single claim block in your main hold and being able to expand it's reach? If you were to put a claim block in each region manually, that would mean you would need to build a fortified position (since you would want to protect your claim blocks) in each, which might prove to look silly for small region settings.

    Keep it up.
     
  8. Sanfard

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2015
    Messages:
    90
    Trophy Points:
    52
    Q. Will the king statue in Castle Siege mode be replaced with the new claim block?

    Q. Will planets support future Castle Siege maps?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Szudrix

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    62
    will we get notification or particle effect or something when other player will travel to our location or we'll get heart attack when random player just pop out right on top of us ?
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  10. Scorpion00021

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,369
    Trophy Points:
    187
    Very excited about ME progress and the new map feature! I really like the idea for fast travel and being able to block off areas with terrain.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. OmEgA_StOrM

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2014
    Messages:
    102
    Trophy Points:
    82
    Nice :D I love These new informations.

    I think it would be nice to see longer cooldowns than 100s because this would defeat the Point of range if you just can travel at the latest 1 Minute 40 seconds again.

    For the Q&A:

    1. Will the fast traveling be instantaniously? It would be Kind of bad if you would be able just to teleport out of a battle.
    2. Are the 6 kingdoms in any way linkt to the faction systhem (Are you able to expande a Kingdom?)
    3. Will the Image in the world map adjust to the changes in the world (for example will the trees dissapear whan somebody destroied all the trees in an area:)
    4. Are you considering to link the fast travel Feature not just to squares but maybe to a certaind block so that you could travel just between towns or places where the block is placed. (Simmilar to how fasttravel works in Skyrim)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. waterlimon

    Joined:
    May 7, 2014
    Messages:
    1,496
    Trophy Points:
    152
    Q: Are players able to turn off their indicator on map, if they want to stay hidden? (like when trying to sneak into enemy castle, or when you dont want to fight every player on the same hemisphere of the planet)
    Q: How about low-res player activity indicator instead of exact location (highlight region on map for example), so you know general area where they are/were, but got to find them yourself. So it would be more challenging, encourage communication, be more of a surprise when you do find them, allow people to hide etc.
    Q: Will fast travel have travel cost (food, drink), so its balanced against manual walking (especially since it also saves on time, not just food/drink)? Otherwise I see problems in cases where it doesnt work (lets say some tiny mountain is technically blocking the way), or is disabled serverwide...
    Q: Will fast travel have random encounters, if there are threats on the way that you would have to face without fast travel (barbarians, wolves, bad weather...)? Or would these threats act similar to impassable obstacles when in fast travel mode?
    Q: Does fast travel take into account the road network that will supposedly exist on the planets? (like only being able to fast travel along roads, which would make sense)
    Q: How do you ensure players are still encouraged to build moria paths through difficult terrain (mountains, some deep canyon, etc), when doing so is a lot of work, if players can easily teleport around whole mountain ranges? (if you intend to never make fast travel work for carts and such, that would work, but if not, some other incentive would be needed)
    Q: How do you prevent defenseless captured regions from preventing fast travel when there obviously is nothing on the way (you know the map is going to be full of regions with nothing on them captured by random players)?
    Q: Any plans on preventing players from abusing fast travel to flee a battle, or flank the enemy by teleporting behind them?

    Maybe you should only be allowed to fast travel in friendly regions (not equivalent to captured regions, it should be a wider area... like flood fill outward from all friendly/neutral captured regions)? So a border between enemies actually works...
     
  13. Sabo

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2015
    Messages:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    32
    Ok for the QA -> How do you resolve combat abuse for fast travel. It won't be really nice when i will fight with someone and he just disappears.
     
  14. entspeak

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2013
    Messages:
    1,724
    Trophy Points:
    187
    Will there be a world setting to turn off player location (which also might turn off fast travel)? The two kind of work in concert and simply turning off player locations would mean there would be odd non-fast travel squares still giving away positions. Perhaps, this option would be good for hardcore realism players and servers.
     
  15. Scorpion00021

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,369
    Trophy Points:
    187
    A few people have asked about combat abuse and fast travel. I would say that players should not be able to fast travel to or from a contested area (unfriendly faction claim or player present).

    Now that we will be able to see where everyone's land claims are, how will we defend them while we are away? Is there any interest in adding archers/knights to the game so players can place defending npcs for claims?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. noname42

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2015
    Messages:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    37
    I have a few questions about horses...
    Will there be horses?
    If so will horses allow you to fast travel over bigger distances with less cooldown?
    Will there be carts that horses can pull so you can travel with more cargo, maybe even a catapult?

    Also you mentioned paths in another dev diary. Are they purely decorational or do they allow faster speeds?

    Edit: I wonder how you make a map of a planet without stretching... That's a problem in reallife as well
     
  17. Frostik

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2015
    Messages:
    119
    Trophy Points:
    82
    I have a question to the banner contest. You canĀ“t use the banners that i uploaded on imgur right? How should I upload my designs?
     
  18. entspeak

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2013
    Messages:
    1,724
    Trophy Points:
    187
    For modding purposes, do the 6 kingdoms correspond to the 6 tiles used for the planet heightmap? Knowing this would help modders design planets with that in mind.

    I agree that you shouldn't be able to teleport directly into or out of an area which is occupied by another player - even if there is no claim to that square. I refer to that as being only the case when the area is a designated origin or destination point - not a point anywhere else along the path.
     
  19. beelzerob

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2014
    Messages:
    255
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Will fast travel be limited to areas you have physically traveled to first (aka skyrim), or can you jump blind into an area you've never seen?
     
    • Like Like x 3
  20. Scorpion00021

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,369
    Trophy Points:
    187
    I would assume they would be for all areas. Deepflame stressed that this would be to help players find one another, so it would take forever to explore everything. Also, it would be strange to explore an area, then be able to immediately see when someone places a land claim there in the future.
     
  21. Hakon102

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2015
    Messages:
    299
    Trophy Points:
    57
    Wow. very amazing map and travel system and How you want to impelement it, fits very well! Good Work!
     
  22. MorshuArtsInc

    Joined:
    May 10, 2016
    Messages:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    6
    We could attach medieval jump drives to our trebuchets to make them fast travel as well! :D
    Just kidding (or am I?). I think fast travelling is really reasonable in such a big game world, and that it's restricted to players only, not their grids as well.
    I have a different question regarding planets, though. Will there be different climate zones, with deserts or so? And will the castles in those areas look different? Sand stone castles, for example?
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  23. Merandix

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2014
    Messages:
    456
    Trophy Points:
    137
    Q&A: Will it be possible to build a hidden base by foregoing a claimblock, at the risk that anyone can enter if you don't design it carefully?

    Not sure how I feel about the fast-travel system. On one hand, it's really cool. On the other... fast traveling somewhere you've never been to is a bit..... well, necessary but it feels sort of wrong. Not saying I don't like the system though.

    And as one of the biggest proponents for the self-wrapping square map, I think I finally understand your reasoning for choosing planets. Thanks for the explanation!
     
  24. asialsky

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2015
    Messages:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    31
    I don't speak for KeenSWH, but probably.
    Only issue becomes when the enemy builds a castle over your dwarf hole:
    1) "Oh crap, how do I get away now?!"
    2) The second they put down a land claim block, you'll lose building rights (maybe, unknown specifics), and they'll figure out you're nearby from it becoming "contested" if it's based on proximity.
     
  25. protokore

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2015
    Messages:
    55
    Trophy Points:
    52
    fast travel setting is cool for RP ,really good work!!
     
  26. Ed Frost

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2014
    Messages:
    902
    Trophy Points:
    152
    Imagine rping a trade with some guy in the next region....without fasttravel... Poor SoB
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  27. Lord Vulpes

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Messages:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    42
    Congratulations for reaching an important milestone!

    I don't really play the multiplayer aspect in both SE and ME . Hence the question:

    Q: What impact does the division of the planets bring for the single-player experience? Kingdoms with NPC's to conquer or at least small barbarian settlements, trade...?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  28. RayvenQ Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2014
    Messages:
    555
    Trophy Points:
    277
    I hope this fast travel system doesn't preclude the use of horses however.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  29. Scorpion00021

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    1,369
    Trophy Points:
    187
    I've been pondering this since yesterday an I have yet to come up with a balancing idea that I like. I really want to encourage players to find other means of travel, while allowing fast travel as an option if a player is in a rush. A few things I came up with:
    1. Players would only be able to fast travel to and from map tiles with a road on it.
    2. Players can only fast travel between claimed tiles.
    3. Players would need to pay gold to fast travel.

    I'm personally a fan of #2. Building and defending outposts becomes your key to areas in the world. If another player builds to close to you, its a bigger threat since they can now fast travel there.

    The current system isnt bad, but I agree that it discourages exploration in its current proposed state.

    Edit: I wanted to toss in there that I think it would be a neat idea to add checkboxes to the world options that would restrict fast travel to roads or claimed tiles only.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2016
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  30. Ash87

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2013
    Messages:
    1,977
    Trophy Points:
    167
    I have One question, that I don't think I've gotten an answer for yet.

    In the original posts about features that would be added to the game, there was mention of a clan mode. You would start out with a small clan of dudes, who you could jump between control of, who would age and required resources to keep up. The idea being that you would build a village or settlement or castle, or whatever to house them, assign them tasks, then go off and do your thing. The NPCs had a life cycle where if you had old members they would be better at like crafting, while young children would boost the effectiveness of tools, while most of the WORK is done by the adult age NPCs. You could get more by having them pork, and you could keep them alive by providing them with pork (Or I suppose it'd be venison, given there are deer floating around). They could die, at which point you'd need to get more.

    This was something I absolutely Freaking LOVED about the stuff I read a long while back.

    Is that

    Going to Be

    In the Game.

    I don't care if it's in the game now, I don't care if it's in the game next year... I just want to know if it will be in the final version.

    Yes Or No?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2