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Minerals still broken?

Discussion in 'Survival' started by Keten Kennek, Dec 26, 2014.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Latsabb Senior Engineer

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    1,019
    I see a lot of people doing asteroids by building an ore detector immediately. I found this to be a waste of time, energy, and resources. You start with an asteroid cluster, with iron, and usually 3-4 other ores. No uranium? That really sucks, but this is easily fixed. Grind the windshield, the collector, and a thruster. (maybe not all the way down, but enough for some thruster components) Disassemble some thruster components; enough for a beacon, control panel and a solar panel. (for a small ship) Place a new small ship, place the beacon on top of that, and then the solar panel on that. Use the control panel to up the range to 50km. Get in your ship, pick an asteroid cluster, and move. Get to speed, and then just shut off the power, with Y. Drift near a group, put on the power to stop, then power the ship down again. Check asteroids around you, and keep moving until you find uranium. Found uranium? You are now set. You have all the time in the world to find whatever else you need.
     
  2. OldGamer67 Apprentice Engineer

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    I had to start a new world since I learned the hard way that having all ores within range is not guaranteed. My Achilles heel was cobalt. Found silver in abundance. Nickel after some searching. Lucked out on uranium. Almost missed it since it was on a smaller rock next to a big one. But they're all there. Just have to keep searching.

    Doing everything you can to conserve energy is a must. That's what killed my game the first time. I was so used to having everything nearby that I was refining and burning power that I should have saved.

    This time I have multiple asteroids staked out with beacons and more ore than I can process.
     
  3. Cuthalu Trainee Engineer

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    Searched for over 2 hours for uranium, infinite medium asteroids. Didn't find any. I even created a new world again but that didn't help. I don't think I'm trying survivor any time soon... Masochism at its worst.
     
  4. tharkus Junior Engineer

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    i think its ok how its now, before we had 4-12 asteroids with all the minerals in them, now we have 1.000.000.000km space and lots of asteroids, so now, its ok to have to search, its very realistic and challenging in survival to survive and build something. i find it pretty good.
    in my multiplayer game i have with my friend, we have found all the minerals we need to start building some miner ships and so in some hours of gameplay.
     
  5. Keten Kennek Trainee Engineer

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    Yeah, Im ok now too (knock on wood).
    I found a ton of nickel and found enough resources to build a mining ship. I have crates of uranium ore, and built 2 refineries and an arc

    Asteroids, infinite, high density is the way to go.

    Also, like in real life, ignore the 'doughnuts'.
     
  6. Anoth Junior Engineer

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    972
    Nickel is the thing i need right now :/ Found enough uranium for 3 Days for my small station but without nickel i can't build anything else. Platinum and Gold are also plenty and found also some silver... But Nickel is rare as Sh*t
     
  7. Namdoolb Apprentice Engineer

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    That's kinda where I am at the moment.

    More iron than I know what to do with
    Uranium Plentiful enough not to have to worry about it (I have 3 days at full burn, 12 days at idle whilst refining)
    Loads of Gold around the place
    Silicon, Platinum, Cobalt seem quite rare, but I've managed to find deposits of them.
    No Nickel so far, and no silver either.

    Hopping from rock to rock looking for Nickel is maybe starting to get a little old now - Seeing as you need some quantity of it for most complex blocks.

    (not massively worried about my Silver shortage, I can work around that.)


    What I have found about the procedural asteroids is that when you find a large asteroid with a funny looking protrusion or attachment, you can quite often find something other than iron inside that bit. But it might not show up on the ore detector until you start cracking into it with a drill.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 30, 2014
  8. jtgibson Trainee Engineer

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    Personally, I think the only problem with the current system is that there should be *tiny* deposits of just about everything on every asteroid -- enough to keep yourself going on route to the next without having to resort to Newtonian drift, but no motherlodes that will make you completely independent on visiting any other asteroid ever again unless that asteroid just happens to be made of that particular element. Then you'll find your uranium asteroids and your gold asteroids and your cobalt asteroids and be able to secure them as strategic resources, but can still eke out the most basic of livings from a single asteroid, at least until you get your feet under you again.
     
  9. PaladinX333 Apprentice Engineer

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    234
    The problem is made worse by the broken ore detector. I found uranium, but the ore detector refused to admit that it existed. My thought is that there may be some minerals that are not being found by players because they are hidden by rock and the ore detector isn't showing them. If my uranium was not on the surface I would not have found it.
     
  10. PaladinX333 Apprentice Engineer

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    It took me 16 hours to find nickel and cobalt. SIXTEEN HOURS!!! I found so many asteroids with uranium that I stopped counting them. Enough gold, platinum and silver deposits to fill a thousand treasuries.

    The problem seems to be that the random ore distribution is a little too random. There is no guarantee that you will have all the resources within 50KM of your spawn point. If the missing resources happen to include uranium, you are screwed.
     
  11. Latsabb Senior Engineer

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    1,019
    First, there is no such thing as too random. Random is random. Second, you are guaranteed (ok, 99.9999999999999999999999999999999% chance, perhaps) to find each resource within 50km on an infinite world. (meaning not the 4, 7, 16 or whatever asteroid worlds) And if you PLAYED for 16 hours before you found them, then you were not looking for them for 16 hours, or even close to that. It didnt take you sixteen hours to find it. Just like if I AFK in a world for a week straight, I cant claim that it took a week for something to happen.
     
  12. Ashy Trainee Engineer

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    I have to agree. I have read many stories on here relating to 'broken resources' '[Insert Resource name] is not appearing' etc so I have been put off trying out the exploration mode. I decided to give it a go tonight and found every single resource within 19KM of my starting base including magnesium right on the starting asteroid (Unlimited world - High Density)

    At most - I would say its a little unbalanced, Though I found Uranium and Cobalt, I only found one small deposit of each but I was tripping over gold, I saw so many gold asteroids that I decided to not even place beacons next to them.

    http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/37485188573760116/52B51BFA0D1F8D1AFA7C3F40FF3A3B60C76CA83A/
     
  13. harold5187 Trainee Engineer

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    60
    I must admit, it's a lot better than before the patch; Before all I could find is stone, iron, gold, and uranium, but after you venture out, the uranium became harder to find, now after the patch, I'm finding plenty of Uranium, Magnesium, gold, silver, and platinum, can't find any silicon though, maybe just need to keep looking, you'll only notice these changes on newly generated asteroids, so if your going over asteroids you've already been to, your not going to find them. But I'm finding a lot more now of things I couldn't find before...
     
  14. PaladinX333 Apprentice Engineer

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    234
    The vast majority of that 16 hours was spent looking for resources. Nickel and cobalt in particular, since I needed motors to build stuff. I must have looked at more that 150 asteroids without finding any nickel and cobalt. There was some time spent mining the other minerals, but not much.

    As far as random goes, you can control how random an environment is when you generate it. Completely random versus random within a narrowly defined set of parameters. When I was a game programmer I referred to these cases as "controlled randoms".

    I created a random map generator for the classic DOS game Master of Orion. I divided the galaxy into 16 sectors. The planets generated within each sector were created with tightly controlled randomizations. While everything other than homeworld location was random, the maps generated were always balanced and playable compared to the completely random crap that the built in map generator spat out.

    There is most definitely such a thing as too random.
     
  15. harold5187 Trainee Engineer

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    You worked on Master Of Orion? That game was awesome back in the day, that and Imperium Galactica, I also liked Ascendancy, and Starflight 1 and 2.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 2, 2015
  16. Latsabb Senior Engineer

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    1,019
    That is not random, then. That is the illusion of random. And you checked 150 asteroids? I am sorry, I find that exceedingly unlikely, especially when there were TWO resources that you couldnt find. The odds of that are so stupidly low, it is effectively not possible. The odds of finding one of those two ores would be 2/8, or 1/4. That is a 25% chance that any asteroid would have your resource. (assuming a normal distribution of all the ores, which seems(ed) to be the case) So that means the probability of not finding it is 75% per asteroid. .75^150 is 1.82*10^-19. Also known as 0.0000000000000000182%.
     
  17. Cuthalu Trainee Engineer

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    2
    For me the biggest problem of mining is the complete lack of predictability. In Minecraft there are rules governing where you find certain minerals. There are also more defined roles for different minerals in crafting. These are elements that allows the playing experience to be more interesting; less pure luck, more possibilities to shape the playing experience.

    Greatly bigger variation in asteroid sizes - perhaps miniature planets and moons - and making different resources to correlate with different sizes would be nice to have.
     
  18. MegaMiner Junior Engineer

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    625
    I think you guys are just not looking far and wide enough. The one and only infinite game i made has every ore in it, but some, like Uranium, can be very rare, while others, like gold platinum and silicon seem to be more common. Ive only found a single silver, which seems to be rarer than uranium, but that may just be the area and roids Ive checked. Typically the nearest you will find one uranium roid to another is about 50km onnormal density. Dont get too hung up on putting down roots.
     
  19. throttled829 Trainee Engineer

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    68
    I find it interesting that you would bring up predictability in Minecraft as that would seem to be all about one's own perspective.
    Since there are trees, water, and animals on the surface and ores and resources underground, this would be predictable for Minecraft, yes I agree. But, what is it that Minecraft is meant to simulate?
    If you really want to make the comparison, if even just vaguely Minecraft simulates our planet then I say Space Engineers should at least vaguely simulate space.
    In space, vast expanse with nothing and resources like ores spread way out would be predictable, wouldn't it? That is, if the game is meant to mimic "some" aspects of space as Minecraft is meant to mimic "some" aspects of our planet's surface.
    I guess it comes down to what specifically you refer to as predictable. To my mind, what you call predictable is the opposite of what I would call predictable if the simulated environment is to be taken into account.
    Personally, I kinda like the idea of limited resources and scarcity being behind a survival situation. It adds a needed sense of true accomplishment when you get a well stocked station built and additional resources tagged with beacons. It still is nowhere near the actual vast nothingness that is space, but its a lot closer to it IMO. :)
     
  20. throttled829 Trainee Engineer

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    68
    I find it to be sorta sad that so many players come on this forum and complain about so much stuff.

    The exploration update is supposed to add exploration, is it not? Having centralized ores easily found all within a certain area completely cancels out the need to explore.

    Apply some logic to your thinking and quit your whining.
    I too had a difficult start but it made it all the better once I finally found some Uranium and got enough of a stockpile to be alright for awhile. What it comes down to is you have to play the game mode as it's name suggests.
    Exploration Mode. :idea:
     
  21. Latsabb Senior Engineer

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    1,019
    I have two normal density worlds. I have not traveled more than 30km from my starting cluster in either one, and I have over 10 uranium asteroids marked.
     
  22. PaladinX333 Apprentice Engineer

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    The last update made this whole thing moot. Most of the asteroids seem to have 4 or 5 ores now. I am no longer marking things that I am finding as everything is so plentiful.
     
  23. MaXimo Trainee Engineer

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    I started an infinite normal density map today (haven't done sooner cause I was on vacation and my laptop sucks... I mean it REALLY sucks)

    anyhow I managed to find Uranium pretty soon all was going awesome till I realized I had no nickel... like at all. After 10 asteroids and no nickel I had the luck to find a commercial ship to grind down so I could finish some conveyors to better mine... now I'm at 8h gameplay 30 something asteroids and still no nickel. I mean it shouldn't be so rare and such bad luck shouldn't exist like what if it was uranium? I would be dead by now.

    The problem imo lies in the randomness of the asteroid spawning. I get random is easy to code but there should also be a check... like if the nearest asteroid has uranium and silicon (and iron ofc, yet to be found an asteroid without iron) the one generating should be less likely to have them so in a 10km radius you should have pretty much all the raw materials.

    those are my thought so far... I'll keep searching

    Edit: seems like whining woks I have my nickel at last ;)... but seriously we might need a little less randomness in the ore spawning.

    on a side-note did any of you found an abandoned ship? are those in yet and pretty rare?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2015
  24. muffins Trainee Engineer

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    I had the exact same thing happen to me. Couldn't find nickel anywhere for days which meant I couldn't continue working converting a Gahanna warship I'd found. When I eventually found some I realised that nickel was almost the same colour as iron so I was probably passing up asteroids because they looked like just iron at a distance lol
     
  25. MaXimo Trainee Engineer

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    That's not my case I mounted first thing a big ore detector on the respawn ship so I wouldn't miss it if it was there.

    Also dunno if it's a bug or something but sometimes for my ore detector to start working I have to start mining the asteroid or it doesn't show the materials in it... I guess it might be some issue with the new procedural-generated world. or am I the only one having it?
     
  26. Martronix Trainee Engineer

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    16
    I have that all the time.

    I think that is actually because of the procedural-generated world. When I look into the SE toolbox an asteroid only exists in there if I touched it (meaning mined it or constructed on it), with exception of the one at 0;0;0. So I assume it might be the same for the ore-detectors
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2015
  27. tcmreaper Trainee Engineer

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    ressources are there i found nearly everything within 15km except platin thats 25km away. it was not much but enough for the moment, then i build mining ships with friends and beacons and the distance was no problem. dont trust the ore detector and look carefully.
     
  28. MaXimo Trainee Engineer

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    You can trust the detector if you know how to use it. You must understand that it has a limited range that it's not enough to cover an entire big asteroid, I usually do 6-8 orbits before saying that the asteroid lacks an element (an where possible I also make a drive through).

    So trust the ore detector... don't trust yourself.

    on a side-note there are some players who enjoy single-player survival so I think it should be made possible even for them (including me) to play alone. I mean it should be harder alone not impossible alone imo
     
  29. Latsabb Senior Engineer

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    1,019
    I play single player survival primarily, and it is more than possible to play alone.
     
  30. MaXimo Trainee Engineer

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    I do too but, happened a couple of times not to find uranium in time and die... it's all related to the fact that sometimes minerals in asteroids are too much random and if you're unlucky you might run out of fuel before finding uranium which is not likely to happen if you coop with an other player, that was my "impossibility"
     
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