Welcome to Keen Software House Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the KSH community.
  1. You are currently browsing our forum as a guest. Create your own forum account to access all forum functionality.

Most secure method for hangar lockdown

Discussion in 'Survival' started by Jarin, Jan 30, 2015.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Jarin Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    78
    I'm trying to make my first real proper carrier, but I'm running into issues with ships breaking free if I just park them with their own landing gear. Anyone have suggestions for securing small ships to large ones? I use merge blocks to attach my two large-block outrider ships to the mothership, but trying to do similar for my smaller ships would involve rotor-size adapting, which (I've been told) is even more unreliable. How do people here handle securing ships in mobile hangars?
     
  2. AutoMcD Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,369
    I just use connector, or multiple if the ship is large/heavy. Usually not a problem as long as the carrier can't turn or accelerate too quickly.

    Some people have issues with connector becoming unlocked sometimes so will ALSO use landing gear. But it works for me.

    In my experience landing gear just explodes whenever I try using it so I avoid using them at all.
     
  3. mega_newblar Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    36
    http://www.reddit.com/r/spaceengineers/comments/28ens0/having_trouble_keeping_a_small_ship_attached_to_a/

    That thread is where I found the idea to use large ship landing gears to hold small ships in place. Works great for me.
     
  4. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,864
    Connector + large ship landing gear.

    For big ships I use 4 connectors + large ship landing gear on the mothership.
     
  5. Painkillaz Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    3
    The main problem is that people don't disengage Inertial Dampener

    C/P : http://spaceengineers.wikia.com/wiki/Inertial_Dampeners

    WARNING: if docked to a moving carrier, always disengage the inertial dampeners BEFORE unlatching thelanding gear. Failure to do so might result in the ship suddenly driving itself against the next ship opposite to the carrier's current vector (or the carrier's rear wall).


    Same apply when docking, if inertial dampener is on, on your docked ship, it will constantly try to counter the moving speed of the carrier, effectively slowing down the carrier and in some cases break free.

     
  6. Ceztu Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    138
    I usually make a group that has all the gyros and engines in it. Of course you can say that it's just one button press just like turning off the dampers, but it's harder to forget to turn the engines and gyros back on before you drive away than to turn on the dampers.
     
  7. radam Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,207
    Other issues might arise while flying the said carrier on dedicated server. Like because of desync a fighter might lag into a wall and just explode.

    A partial fix for that might be a remote control of the carrier itself. As long as you are not in active control of anything stuff is more stable.
     
  8. Xakthos Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    220
    I find that having landing gear from all grids that are to be put together working. So for example the small ship would have landing gear locked and there would be the carrier's landing gear latched onto it as well. Adding additional connectors helps too.

    I've started using the maglock mods (specifically http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=300679004&searchtext=maglock) and that actually seems to work even better than regular landing gear. Putting that on both sides and even with instant acceleration (0-104 in 1 second) nothing comes loose. Full spins, crossing zone boundaries etc that normally cause the problem with landing gear just doesn't seem to ever happen again.

    Most of the game's issues seem to come from grid to grid interaction. Best all around solution is to make both grids interact with each similar to a handshake. That way they're both involved in remaining in motion or not in motion.
     
  9. BoredBoz Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    102
    [SIZE= 10pt]All of my small ships use landing gear and a connector to dock with my big ships. I set up a timer block that switches the landing gear and connector locks and then powers off all of the thrusters, and if I have batteries I add the command to switch switch the batteries recharge state. No need to turn off inertial dampeners if there are no thrusters to move the small ship.[/SIZE] This has worked flawlessly for me ever since I started building ships.

    Here is an example of one of my big ships with docked small ships.
     
  10. DoctorDiscord Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    21
    Connector+landing gear and turn off thrusters

    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=370372856
     
  11. Jarin Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    78
    Desperately wishing for small/large merge blocks, especially what with grid-sharing coming courtesy of ME.

    Flying the carrier from remote control was mentioned. Does that work if I'm in a non-pilot chair on the ship being RCed? Or does that not help, since the controlling player is still on the ship grid?
     
  12. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    2,864
    There are currently two versions of Maglock on the steam workshop. the Mk2 and the V2, what's the difference?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 10, 2015
  13. aRottenKomquat Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    351
    Small/large merge blocks would make me very happy indeed.
     
  14. drkrieger Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    407
    There is nothing that is (currently 1.069) guaranteed to lock/arrest a ship to another ship in multi-player (this may not apply to SP). You can not even trust a secondary grid of any kind (this includes a rotor or piston) on a ship flying at high speeds (beyond 104m/s).

    I just encountered this issue this morning when I was flying a carrier that had a few pistons on the inside. When I was flying it at 350m/s, the piston head started to ghost/clip way past where it should have been and eventually broke off and punched a nasty hole through my ship.

    Every attempt I've tried to lock/arrest a ship to a carrier has failed at some point. It can be as simple as turning the carrier while stopped, or at 30m/s. It's completely random.
    And to note - I run a dedicated server and was connected through a 1Gbps LAN connection at the time, so lag was not an issue. Introducing lag makes the issue far worse.

    Unfortunately, this issue will likely not be resolved until the game enters a beta stage of development.
     
  15. Jikanta Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    418
    Have your hanger located at your ships center of mass. This is the point of your ship that moves the slowest when turning. Double up on securing your small ships as well using both landing gear and connectors. Best of luck.
     
  16. EasternCheesE Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    10
    I have found a pretty easy way to make safe connection of the bigship to bigship connection.
    The pair of connector+merge block on the same side (i use them on the back side of the craft) makes it easy to dock because of pulling force of the connectors, that make the ship align correctly very fast.

    For example, i have my mothership with my drill and welder ships connected to it. I made the welder and drill ships to be "big ship" as soon as the efficiency of large ship drills and welder is higher. Also, this gives some additional benefits.

    If you place the connector and merge block in right position, then the merged ships will integrate your power grid and make your mothership have more thrusting power.
    Also, working with fully merged ships is much easier. Just remember to rename the containers, so you wouldn't place the stuff into wrong places.

    As for the small ship connection, i have found out, that 2 large landing gears attached to the small ship is quite enough to hold the fighter craft or something not so heavy.

    The only problem left is the way to make the piston door, that is not going to be damaged all the time while i fly. But considering my investigation, if i use the large landing gear to hold the door once it's opened/closed, this works pretty well.
     
  17. Dawnkeeper Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    260
    @EasternCheesE does the combination of merging blocks and connectors work for you without errors?
    For me it messes up block groups and sometimes even crashes the game on dis/reconnect.
     
  18. Ingenio Ingens Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    309
    I just have little cubby holes in my hangar that I park ships by having a connector on the back and inside the cubby. Turn off the engines by grouping them and all will be okay.
     
  19. WDMeaun Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    142
    You need to use different names for the blocks, else it can mess it up indeed. (block groups work on name)

    If you would copy paste 2 dock/mergeable crafts and merge them, you're bound to have some naming problems (and groups not working correctly)

    Edit the XML file whenever you copy large collections in order to quickly find/replace the names. (each grid has its own node in XML)
     
  20. slader1997 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    86
    i use a large landing gear on auto lock to hold fighters in place combined with the fighter's gear on auto. never had any issues with this set up even at 350. to avoid unwanted dampening ensure fighter dampeners are off. they are way more powerful than you think.
     
  21. Paintbox Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    11
    Using landing gear and turning off power is enough. No problems.
     
  22. Hotshot Jimmy Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,500
    Ye I find on stations a connector is more than enough, just make sure like has been said above, group your thrusters and you have enough room that if you fire them to fly away you don't make new window frames in your wall. Alot of people make that mistake first time around haha. Recesses are good, I use SC half blocks to make 2 indentations where the thrusters fire to disconnect the connector.

    HJ
     
  23. SirTragain Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    160
    I've had three captured Mining Carriage's powered down while their landing gear were locked to the base/platform frame work for proper spacing. As I was welding away I noticed one was floating away so I stat flying over and see all three were drifting.

    I don't know if the act of welding platform that they were locked to has anything to do with it but I do KNOW I had locked all four of the landing gear on all three of the Carriages because I went in to the control screen to make them a "Group" and then locked them.
     
  24. AtlantisThief Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    300
    So as of right now, the best tipps for everyone including me, would be:
    • Landing Gear on Large Ship for Small Ship to lock on (auto)
    • Landing Gear on Small Ship to Large Ship to lock on (auto)
    • Inertia Dampener/Power off
    • If possible close to the center of the mass due to less rotation there
    • If possible connector + landing gear
    Have I been missing something?
     
  25. rottielover Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    485
    I've been trying to bug test landing gear for a while now. Some things I've learned when playing on dedicated servers (these apply to DS play and may not hold true for other game types). This also applies only to having the breaking force turned up to unlimited.

    Use only one large ship gear to lock a small ship grid. Use of more than one gear introduces a "phantom force", this is observable as a rotation force on the mothership. The more gear the worse the effect. Small grid landing gear seem to have this problem amplified. To observe, make a small ship "tug" and lock 2 gear to another small ship grid, you'll spin wildly and have a hard time controlling. Lock only one gear and your fine.

    ive also experienced the random "connector turns off" bug on more than one occasion. The best designs at the moment either a) use 1 large gear to lock the small ship or b) use 1 large gear and one connector connection.

    Option b is most useful for battery drones so that you can recharge them on the go.

    I have not tried messing around much with the breaking force setting, my testing has so far been trying to catch the problems with landing gear on video.

    In practical terms, my friend and I built a mining hauler with 4 "bays" on my dedicated server. Each bay uses the mag lock mod pad (1 pad) and this works fine for hauling around the small ship mining drones as long as you either power them off or turn off the thrusters and gyro's.

    Summary :

    I do not trust small ship landing gear. The explodium problems seems amplified with small ship gear.

    Try and keep it to 1 large ship gear to use as a lock, otherwise you will at some point experience the "phantom forces".
     
  26. piddlefoot Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,182
    Theres a script in the workshop for the programmable blocks for fastening small ships to large ships.
    You could try that, its a way of staying vanilla, and no mods and achieve the outcome your looking for.

    I have not tried the actual script, I read about it but have no use for it right now. For what your doing, definitely worth a look.

    Be sure to thank the script writer that spent a lot of his/her time writing it !
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2015
  27. Leadfootslim Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,300
    The only "moving part" that's 100% effective at all speeds is Merge Blocks of the same grid size. Combining this with rotor heads could mean you can "assemble" a kit into its fragile, not-so-fast state on site and pack it away into its all-one-grid form while flinging oneself across the asteroid belt. However, the time taken to delicately maneuver such a process is likely longer than it would take to just fly there more slowly... or at the very least, it'll be more of a hassle. gFleka's "Gravity wings/doors" concept fits nicely here, though.

    But until we get 100% immutable grid-lock-docking in some way, it's workarounds for everyone.
     
  28. Tajin Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    270
    Merge blocks are certainly the best connection but for docking they can have some pretty sideeffects. Namely thruster-damage and undesired block-connections. Not really a good alternative IMHO.



    Heres my checklist for reliable docking:

    1. make a suitable landingpad with some room for wobbling

    2. use enough connectors / landinggears

    3. always turn off the reactor after landing

    4. try to activate the landing gears before they actually touch the ground. Leaving a small gap can help to avoid bouncing into the ground when things get wobbly.

    5. place your hangar near the center of mass on the mothership

    6. avoid rapid acceleration and fast turns with the mothership, keep things smooth

    7. use this script from the workshop (it basically reconnects the landinggears in a certan interval, in order to "refresh" their connection and prevent it from deteriorating)
    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=397981675
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2015
  29. ObjectZero Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    361
    The merge block works fine for me for large to small ships. But the small ships I'm docking are very tiny compared to the ship they are docked to also the hanger is build in the middle of the ship. But did have one friend that this same method didn't work for when the rotor gave out. Not sure what he was doing when it gave out though. I move my large main ship at a nice slow speed and don't take very sharp turns with it, if I can help it at least. PVP sometimes cause me to throw this to the solar winds sometimes, but even then it's a measured risk and I know what I'm getting myself in to or out of.
     
  30. lardaltef Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    9
    I would also suggest (if you want to use a mod) the maglock mod those things are insanely strong you don't even need ones on your small ships. generally though I've found the connector alone to be strong enough as long as you power the smaller ship off completely (and to be sure I generally turn the thrusters, gyro/s, and inertia dampeners off then the reactors).
     
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.