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Multiplayer Build Feedback Thread: Paper

Discussion in 'Suggestions and Feedback' started by Drui, Nov 24, 2016.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Pie Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    116
    So far I've tested all three builds for a short period using a very old but large Solar System world. At present I've only tested MP issues I know about on a locally hosted DS so at this stage can't comment on how it works out in the wild. I've not read through everyone else's post so apologies if I'm repeating anything. Here's my initial thoughts on 'Paper'.

    I didn't really get very far. Even with 1.00 Sim Speed it was difficult to move around ships and there was rubber-banding. Ships that were locked to bases appeared at random locations and in once instance an entire base appeared on screen upside down. Desync seems to be worse in this build than in the standard DS that has been in place since July.
    Gravity is also wrong - if you have no downawrds thrusters on a ship it will float up to the atmospheric thruster ceiling with dampeners on but use no fuel just like it does in the normal DS build.

    Sorry to be negative - I will give it a go on a new world in case it's something odd with our very old test world. Initially this is the least playable of the 3 builds for me. If I were a conspiracy theorist I'd say this was the placebo build!
     
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  2. Zebgopea Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    11
    This server crash happened when I built a ship owned by me with a passenger seat and my friend tried to board.

    Dedicated server LAN, 2 players connected:

     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2016
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  3. ShadowHunter12 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    46
    I can sum things up by saying that it's got low cpu overhead and good performance, but most instances with rotors will shake violently and undergo R.U.D. if disturbed in any way.
     
  4. Zebgopea Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    11
    My friend had just switched to mining drill and mined one chunk then crash:

     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2016
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. Yukizawa Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    3
    Did some testing on this. Paper was the best build we used. We had issues where ships would not be present for some clients until the disconnected and re-connected, but it was better than the randomely non-updated inventory issues we saw with scissors. We also had less lag with paper in general, and it had less cost to the host.
     
  6. Vuelhering Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    22
    paper Sadly, no mag boots :(


    Couldn't connect to kswh host (down, or host has left game on connect)

    Many CTD on startup when connecting, searching servers, or otherwise waiting.


    Hosted server:

    Fairly stable on hosted server. Few CTD.

    Instance where grinding/welding a SPRT ship large cargo did not allow access... couldn't even see the terminal (no highlighting). This might be a block issue with large cargo missing an access port, not a "paper" issue.

    High speed ships (300 m/s) seems to work.

    Couldn't let someone else pilot lander, share with all, share with faction, joined faction, etc.

    Ran out of memory after playing a couple hours. 16gb.

    Had some issue with ship thrusting forward when it was supposed to be stopped during mining. Destroyed ship. Other players said they saw the ship inside the asteroid and it shouldn't have been.
     
  7. Zebgopea Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    11
    I've been seeing quite a bit of rubberbanding today. LAN dedicated server 1 player. Wifi pretty good today. Seems to happen during construction when I'm too close to what I'm building when it finishes. Doesn't go away unless I reconnect.
     
  8. Soulthule Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    362
    Running DS "Paper" Current Versions - Whether you are admin or not, when you try to paste (creative or survival), you can grab the blueprint, see the outline, and then try to paste at which point you get the spinning circles that never stop. The server will run and sometimes the server will throw the below code.

    FYI - I can't run scissors (crashes on startup), Rock (crashes every 5 minutes) - so this is ahead, but feels a lot like the current dev build issues, vibrating ships, warping players, desyncing issues.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Trement Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    8
    official server paper, ping 24, 2 players.

    Test results:

    - Containers couldn't be accessed
    - Multiple no connection to server happened
    - Server crashed when assaulting ai ship with grinder, aiming at it's turret.
    - Smooth gameplay
     
  10. Direct1221 Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    1
    On first note, this is the only build I have tried to play (so cannot give a comparison to the rest right now).

    Running a DS locally with 2 other players connecting externally.

    Works:

    - the engines shutting off on the 1-2 second server stutters has been fixed, they no longer shut off
    - Server/Local sim speed has not changed from 1.00 in the two days of the server being active.
    - Ships move smoothly and drilling works wonderfully
    - Connectors work good. Connectors do not let go randomly.
    - Very low resource usage on computer

    Issues:

    - Using the welder randomly crashes the server.
    - placing "ghost blocks" still happens and is fixed upon logging out and back in.
    - on every ship we have built, the landing gear does not let go on any of the clients, but does on the server and causes desync. logging out and in fixes the issue and doesnt happen again after the first lift-off.
    - had one time where user logged out in cryo chamber, and logged back in on the respawn screen (place was still powered, had oxygen generator and tank)
    - ships still visually "fall" (when they are stationary) and causes modifying ships while in the air very hard.
    - items inside cargo containers, refineries, assemblers will "ghost" second stacks of items, that cannot be drawn out or added to. is fixed from re-logging in. this is usually caused by multiple cases of right-dragging items and taking only specific amounts or putting back specific amounts into containers.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2016
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. kittle Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,086
    Tried the official paper server this evening.

    lander landing went fine. no hiccups or jittering. No "wiggle" when rotating the lander while in flight.
    Landed, built a small battery powered wheeled vehicle from a BP.
    When I added the BP, it said only single grids were supported, but everything displayed fine -- im assuming that was because of the wheels.

    Note: the mis-aligned welding point bug for small blocks is still present and still a problem.

    After completing the vehicle, I backed it up to a connector on my station/base to charge its battery. Steering & manovering was much better than expected.
    Once charged, I disconnected from the, the vehicle de-tached from its wheels, rotated clockwise, and rose into the air. Eventually it came down on its side with minor damage.

    I managed to right the vehicle. Then I set the connector strength on both connectors to '0' and re-connected. After disconnecting the vehicle was 'stuck' to the connector and jittering quite a bit. I got in and tried to drive away. eventually it broke free and shot across the landscape, lost 2 wheels and eventually crashed.

    listos: Wheeled vehicles on planets still need work
     
  12. NikolasMarch Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    927
    wheeled vehicles and connectors have been a problem for a while now...

    i tend to use an ejector system to offload wheeled vehicles ores into a collector and stick some solar panels on it for charging, then remove panels after

    another idea i havent tried is attaching pistons to the vehcile, raising it up to match a connector, grind the wheels then connect the connector. Then reverse it all after charging and hope those piston heads are forgiving :D
     
  13. Megachill Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    8
    Server did not crash but the game was absolutely impossible to play (i'll iterate below). This was tested with 2 / 3 people on a dedicated server running:

    Server: Windows Server R2012 with an i7-5960 and 64GB RAM. SE installed on Intel SSD 256GB.
    Simulation Rate: Whacky from time to time, avg > .75

    Dscription:
    All players would experience extreme jitter / resynching. Remember this wasn't some player hosting but dedicated. Players would not be able to open doors. I myself would get position reset quite frequently. All in all the server was so unplayable that players would not endure it for more than 25min. Would have loved to test further but in this current state absolutely unplayable / untestable... Delays between position / transform resets were averaging between 1-10sec.

    tldr; synchronisation / replication is broken
     
  14. I23I7 ME Tester

    Messages:
    3,827
    Hello! Hello!

    Alright guys thanks for feedback and crashes. I will try and report them gradually as you post them here. I will not try and reply to each of you individually since it would confusing and hard to maintain that many conversations at the same time. Anyway remember to try out other version of MP as well so that we can make a comparison of strength and weaknesses.

    Thanks guys!

    I23I7
     
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  15. Akleshchev Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    22
    Spawned in planetary lander and immediately exited control seat at :
    Paper (5 players, ping >200):
    Was thrown around and colliding with everything as if in a mixer, then was thrown up through the wall into open space (no open doors).
    Scissors (4 players, >200 ping):
    No severe issues, activating dampeners and jet-pack caused same "mixer", but I stayed in a ship all the time, might be expected behavior.

    Spawned in planetary lander, disabled lander's dampeners and exited control seat at :
    Paper:
    Almost immediately was thrown up through the wall.
    Scissors (4 players, ~200 ping):
    Was "shaking" up and down to the point where I was not able to interact with anything, but I stayed in the ship all the time. This "shaking" might be expected.

    P.S. Similar results with walking in fast moving ship under control of other players.
    All that "shaking" made me dream about magnetic boots to "lock" player in relation to current ship)
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2016
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Gassniffer Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    7
    Ping 23
    Players 13
    Sim Speeds 1.0/1.0
    world size 58 megs
    Small micro jitters but not all the time.
    Player joined lag between 8 and 10 secs, due to huge world size.
    Clipping is still present, but not all the time.
    Possible bug while inside a roid when looking around player sim speed drops for a micro second. But when out side the roid looking all around quickly smooth as butter...
    Rubber Banding still there, but very seldom.
    Constant server crashes , needs a hotfix to properly test server, Also some-one needs to look at how the world size is being bloated and maybe some for of file compression maybe to be applied.
    Or why if I am joining and spawning in 2000k away why do I need to know if the earth planet has giant holes dug into it, maybe some kind of world streaming when you get closer. That way it doesn't matter how big the world size gets and would cut down on the lag we get when the world size becomes bloated..
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2016
  17. C. Roselli Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    4
    So far I have been enjoying the multiplayer, with paper being the best, scissors, second best, and rock last. However, my current opinion is not the reason why I am here.

    On a two player server on a modded moon, something interesting happened
    The host of the server was testing his mining ship's capabilities to grab objects by picking up an oxygen tank from a valley and transporting it to a mountain. As far as I can tell, from the second it connected to the landing gear the ship turned invisible. He later unlocked the oxygen tank and landed the ship. The screenshots depict what I saw. In the first screenshot the server host can be seen sitting in the cockpit. In the last I try to push against where the ship actually is and I can't move. The "husk" of the ship appears to be only steel blocks and one connector. I can go through the husk as is shown but not the actual ship. I hope this information is helpful.

    In addition, the ground and nearby ships have shaken mysteriously, and I have fallen into the voxel terrain roughly 5 times, though it helped my work connecting a subterranean base : D. In any case, I've been loving the multiplayer, keep up the good work Keen!
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2016
  18. X e r o Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    81
    Ran my own Paper server from my DS. Regardless of hardware etc, these are my findings.
    NOTE: I play with high ping, so these tests are reflective of that as well.

    Paper Test -

    MP Paper Test ~
    - Initial download, game will not start...
    - Validated files, entire game re-installed... 3.1GB. don't have time for this.
    - Installed and validated all files for server setup. Server failed to start, log ends abrubptly with no exception/errors.
    - Restarted server, still will not load, log ends abrubptly. (asked multiple people, they had similar issues, but the log gave errors, mine didn't')
    - Issue: PID for vanilla launcher stuck on 'running' state and could not be closed. Service would not accept control messages. Had to force kill the service via administrator cmd taskkill. (Note: server process/service needs to be run on MANUAL and not automatic, it's really annoying to have 3 servers on reboot starting up!)
    - Second time, service will not accept control messages, force restart did not work, had to reboot server... paper is failing no matter what is on the server if you can't start the server.
    - Third time, server finally started, no idea why, i didn't change anything... it just decided to work. log still ended randomly, but server started this time.
    - Large ships battles, 4 5k block ships with 10+ rocket turrets each firing at each other, sim speed local was around .9-1.0, server sim speed was 1.0 but had dips to .90 etc. the ships were not moving around.
    - Large ship crash test (i advise against this, it's not proper testing.) - Crashed large ship 5k+ blocks. Trees started duplicating... uhh what? that happened. (it is paper i guess haha). The large ship unfortunately went through the ground, and then appeared on the surface again bouncing up and down to 2 different players.
    - Paper overall was stable while in space, planetary ships (2k+ ships) dropped sim speed to .7 or .8. The rest of the time server sim speed was ok, but doing basically anything dropped speed.
    - Landing gear seemed to drop server sim speed and local sim speed by alot, locking one landing gear seemed to drop sim speed by .1 and locking an entire lander dropped sim speed to .7-.8 server sim speed seemed.. ok, hovered around .7 with all the destruction and ships in the world.
    SP Paper Test ~
    - Started on moon easy-start, get in drill ship, can't move, turn on thrusters, can't move.
    - Power cycle ship with Y and ship can move... idk how paper team managed to mess this up....
    - When not within 5m of a grid, you float upwards while on planets when jetpack and dampeners are active. you don't float up fast, but you still float up... really weird (and no it's not breathing)
    - did not experience a single crash throughout all of this.

    Conclusion: Paper connection is better than rock (... paper beats rock through my testing).
    Paper sim speed seemed to go away easier, but recovered faster than rock did during the same tests as above.
    De-sync was apparent, as well as the rubber-banding while moving around and ship stuttering while i tried to move it.
    Overall, paper was stable, better than rock, but still needed improvements.

    P.S. tested rotors/piston machines and they seemed OK... but i don't build anything that crazy in MP anyway.
     
  19. Leadfootslim Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,300
    Latest bug:

    Building a ship with a Projector and "show only buildable" displays all windows on the ship, floating unattached.

    Crash occurred while welding projections.
     
  20. C. Roselli Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    4
    So today I was creating a new vehicle and I noticed something strange. After copy-pasting in a vehicle that had had full thruster override on two thrusters, I saw that after I turned the thrusters off there was approx. 80% power usage that shouldn't be there (One small reactor, after two ion thrusters were at max override). I saw that this phantom power consumption stayed when copy-pasted again (With the override off). I decided to update another iteration to be the exact same as the other, and these screenshots show my results.
    Two things of note are that I accidently had the first ship at 500m broadcast and the second at 5000m, but that isn't the cause of 80% missing power. I also found that with two reactors the phantom power consumption was around 42%. While this issue may not be related to the paper build I think it is safer to post it here as I was using the paper build at the time.
     
  21. C. Roselli Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    4
    I have been seeing the planet shaking occasionally when standing on voxels or when in a ship on voxels, especially when a rotor is nearby. Additionally, sometimes blocks do not appear to be placed, welded, or ground down when they in fact are.
     
  22. ๊Dennisarc Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    8
    I had played on Paper for about two days with one friend.

    We had been flying in space at full speed, with us walking around the craft, and rotors operating with no trouble at that speed, and everything seemed normal until one asteroid we met that my player could not collide with. The ore voxels were mine-able, however, only by ship.
    My friend was mining the same asteroid I was flying through. This is what seems to be the only problem we have encountered with the paper build so far, and otherwise the "paper" game build works great, with no crashes encountered as of yet.
    The first time we played, no sim speed changes were observed.
    Thanks to the Keen team for all the hard work that's going into improving the game, and I will continue testing this and other builds in the coming days, to see how they compare.
     
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