Welcome to Keen Software House Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the KSH community.
  1. You are currently browsing our forum as a guest. Create your own forum account to access all forum functionality.

My Survival Experience - Big Ship Building

Discussion in 'Survival' started by whistler118, Mar 30, 2014.

Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. whistler118 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    139
    Hello all,
    Many people have said over the forums that survival has made big ship building impossible unless you are in a group. I rose to the challenge and decided to start a new game (just after the random empty ships patch) to do just that. My logic was that making a asteroid base confines you to one place whilst a ship, whilst it would take longer to make and more resources would be more beneficial in the long run, and provide helpful experience when the game gets more developed.
    So my own personal rules for this was that I start on a crashed red ship and was only allowed to fly out (in a small ship) to the random ships once until I had build my large ship. I also had everything on x10 to speed things along. So here is how it went:
    I awaken from my unconscious slumber to find the ships I had so desperately tried to pull out of the asteroid field had been hit, causing catastrophic damage to the nose section of of my cruiser class ship. Time was of the essence so I first put all the fuel from the reactors into the middle reactor, get the power on and aimed to build a refinery and assembler as soon as I could. Dismantling sections of walls, ramps and parts of the reactors I finally after about an hour have both pieces up and running. Whilst doing this I was making runs around the collided asteroid to pick up iron, silicon and fuel as best as I could replacing the screens on my control panel and feeding the refinery.
    Once I felt comfortable I placed down a landing gear and set about creating a LSG inspired honey badger with a mining module on the front and small storage containers on the top. This process took another hour or so but I was very happy with the final results. With now a working small ships I set about mining, waiting for the perfect ship to appear to claim as a prize. Suddenly, the radar beeps as a mining vessel enters the quadrant. I raise the Jolly Rodger, put on my eye patch and set about to capture the high value prize.
    The mining ship had four large storage containers at its center with no defenses or escorts, easy prey for this first time pirate. I swept in from underneath, latching onto a small flat section of the ship. After a quick scan, no traps could be seen so I storm the small command bay. With no one aboard I take control of the vessel and steer it to my asteroid and review its containers.
    Magnesium, fuel, gold, silver, nickel and iron filled the containers of which i quickly put them in the refinery. The vessel i had captured was the perfect foundations of my future ship. With the intention of creating an "interceptor" class frigate, speed and mobility was key along side the required all purpose elements we need on survival.
    I set to work cannibalizing the ship until it was a bare skeleton of its original self with only 3 cargo containers and the 2 large engines at the rear left. Taking the large engines off my destroyed red ship I placed an extra 4 engines on the rear bringing the total up to 6 large, main thruster engines. At this point I had been working for almost 4 hours but the work had only just begun.
    Using the HALO's UNSC fleet's design as a guide I go about setting up the frame work of a thin long vessel with a over bite at the front and hanger door just below. I set about making a bridge at the back of the frigate and adding the necessary gyros, and a small reactor engine room in the heart of the ship. I added three main floors, making sure I had room for the refinery, assembler and medical facilities whilst providing easy access to the storage containers and a large enough hanger to fit 2x craft in. (Miner / honeybadger & fighter). I made a quick diagram and set about placing the blocks.
    [​IMG]
    After 5 1/2 hours I had made a small ship, got enough resources to last a while, got the framework for an interceptor ships with everything laid out and most importantly survived. Now the hard part - welding. With a TV program on in the background I have set about welding, block by block, the colossus beast. To but things into perspective the ships is about 7 blocks wide and maybe 70-80 long containing 3 floors and 30 small engines, 6 large engines, 11 small reactors and so far 7 big gyros.
    Welding is 15% done and I will continue this post when I have completed this project with pictures to show.
     
  2. Dequire Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    178
    I commend you, good sir. On my own I have taken up retrofitting the ships that fly by and turning them into passable, far more usable ships. For example, I turned a Miner Carrier, the thin long one with three containers, into a rather effect, and extremely manuverable tug. I wish you the best of luck! Try not to die of boredom by welding.
     
  3. whistler118 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    139
    Thank you Dequire! I am now a good 10hours into the process now and welding is a killer. The outside shell is done with all the engines and gyros and I have now laid out the framework for the internals. Its been a very interesting experience and I have come up with a few suggestions and things that devs can think about. I do think that modifying existing ships is the only way to do it, going from ground zero is too time consuming.
     
  4. Maul555 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    239
    I have been turning the crashed red ship into a brand new badass, but its been many long hours over many days to get it there...
     
  5. Fox Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    114
    I have built a medium sized ship (small by many standards). I put up the frame, get the essentials I place and make it flyable asap. I'll fly about in the skeleton. As I drive with dampener off, I'll get out of the chair and weld as I move through space. Gives me something to do on the journey.
     
  6. Ash87 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,977
    I'm working on a massive station.

    I've been retrofitting captured cargo ships, and made myself a personal shuttle and a couple small utility fighters.

    Mostly saving "Big Ship Construction" until big ship direct fire weapons are in, because I -do- have a design I've been batting around for some time, but it kind of requires me knowing the size and everything else about big ship weapons before I can really hunker down and build it. I build most of my designs in creative too, before I put them into survival.

    tbh, people saying it's impossible to build large stuff in survival are just impatient. It's totally possible, and it should probably be done... it's just that you have to consider that it's effectively your long term goal.

    My maps have followed the following series of goals:
    1. Get a transport
    2. Get a home
    3. Get a building facility
    4. Break down all your accumulated scrap starter ships, and captured cargo ships you do not need
    5. Profit
    The #5 isn't even me trying to be cute, once you have gotten yourself established (And what I show here is what I call established), you will be 4-20 hours in (Depending on the size of your home facility). At that point, you can really start to consider: "Okay, now I am going to want to do X role, I need to make X, Y, and Z ships to do that... lets get to work."

    Plus, I mean, I just made a massive station inside an asteroid (I'll post pictures) I got bored last night and booted it on survival and strafed the platform. Showed a Lot of flaws in my design that I feel I now need to remedy. This is going to mean More time spent upgrading my stuff.

    Another thing I am finding, is that to make a station that does everything is a collossal waste of time. You really need to consider a faction, in that you need multiple people making facilities geared towards a single goal. My intention once dedicated servers are up and running is to basically set up ship builders and ship breakers in separate facilities, with miners someplace else entirely. The way I'm doing it now, with everyone working on everything is just meaning that I and my partner are both spending All our time on one task or another before switching over to another task... and it's SLOW. When we actually had someone dedicated to ship breaking, we were able to focus on construction and got a Lot done faster.
     
  7. pipakin Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    182
    I'm in the middle of building a large mining support cruiser, which I'm assembling and designing entirely in survival. It is, therefore, emerging somewhat organically, since I had no master plan when I started. I'll have to post some pictures soon.
     
  8. ProfessorFalken Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    290
    Personalty, I think the military transport makes the perfect ship for doing anything. Its a lot easier to take that ship over and retrofit it for your needs. Once you disarm the 5 traps, you can completely strip the inside and rebuild it with 4 refineries, and a large hanger area for small ships. Although with the heavy armor, it takes about 16 gyroscopes to get that thing to maneuver decently.

    But you are right, building a large ship (with the current building tools) is way to time consuming.
     
  9. Aurenian Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    373
    I think large ships should take a long time to build. It makes the final product more rewarding. I think the key to not going insane is to break the task up into lots of little jobs.

    The first large ship I've finished in survival is a basic processing vessel to act as my mobile base. It is only about 3 refineries long, but it still took a fair while to do. The main killer has been getting the resources for thruster components. I've been avoiding salvage, because I want to properly test out building purely from mining.

    I'm currently working on a mobile space station with a docking bay large enough to hold several of the KSH cargo ships. It's still a skeleton at the moment, but I'm slowly chipping away at it.
    The plan is to work mostly on the smaller compartments until conveyors come out and I can scale up the mining operation.
     
  10. Tazkar Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    52
    While I do agree that large ships should take time to build I do think we should get access to more tools to help move things along. Like maybe being able to build a Welder and Grinder MK2 that can construct and deconstruct large blocks faster respectively. Maybe make it slower at doing small blocks so that it doesn't instantly outdate the standard welder/grinder.

    Current game I have going I'm building an asteroid base just because I love the idea of having a home base to return to. I did end up commandeering the Military Escort when it was going by which I'm planning on retrofitting and using as my base's main vessel for traveling to other asteroids.

    Liike others have said I do have to commend you, as for me with the current tools the idea of trying to build some of the larger ship ideas I have floating about by myself is rather daunting.
     
  11. Relkan Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    117
    Well... the devs have mentioned that eventually we'll be able to build a hangar that'll build ships from blueprints. I'm kinda hoping we'll get something along the lines of small ship welders and grinders for large ship projects. I agree that working on a large ship is a very daunting prospect, as it took me nearly two hours just to tweak a mobile refinery ship I made in creative and copy/pasted it to survival (I'm a shameless cheater, I'll admit it!). But... I have to admit it was kinda fun to waste the two hours tweaking that ship. Not to mention all the hours spent designing miners... I'd wish they'd hurry up and fix the drills. All those ores floating off into the void... /sob. Sorry for the off topic rant there. Hell, I'd settle for them giving us a reason to loot those random ships for blueprints to upgrade the current tools we have.
     
  12. whistler118 Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    139
    Agreed. Building Big ships should be more time consuming and cost more resources but I think takes a bit too long to make them. Resources are fine but the time spent welding is time spent away designing, engineering and other projects. I would like to see some kind up upgrade on the welding and grinder tool perhaps or even an option in the start menu to help speed things along.
    Love the idea for the blue prints I thought that was just rumors. But then again, I fear that everyone will have the same ship.
    UPDATE: Ship 80% done, all outside welded, inside laid out and ready. Just need to acquire more resources and them im in it to win it.
     
  13. Ozwart Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    18
    in survival ship have value because you need to harvest ressource for them and it take lot of time to build them. For me it is a + because people will think twice before making kamikaze attack or use badly their ship. It also give value to capturing ship.
    Imagine when faction and dedicated server are up, your team build a battlecruiser, takes a lot of ressource and time so you wont charge blindly into battle with it and loose it like if it was nothing.
     
  14. redneckpirate Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    225
    Just think of the trade possibilities if you can become a respected shipmaker on a server O_o
     
  15. Ozwart Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    18
    wont happen to me in big ship.
    I build only superiority fighter or fighter/bomber.
    But maybe the Ozwart trademark in fighter class will be known hahahhahah
     
  16. redneckpirate Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    225
    Well, my little S.T.A.L.K.E.R., though very small, fast, maneuverable, and well armed and armored may be a good concept, it also has the most platinum content of anything in another player's map O_o 14.7% of the platinum that has been made into components and built into ships/structures is in my little bug. Not a very inexpensive little devil
     
  17. OneAmongOthers Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    183
    More complaining about build times... Been building my asteroid base on survival for over a week now 3x assembler speed as well as 3x refining. Only inventory is at 10x. Been having a blast building, and ATM I an now constructing a solar grid consisting of 8 towers with 6 arrays per tower.
     
  18. Brenner Junior Engineer

    Messages:
    609
    Even more complaining about build times ... I shelved the entire survival mode because of the insane welding times.
    If mining, refining and building components was the limiting factor to build huge spaceships I would be ok with it.
    Mining is great fun, and managing huge industrial centers with tons of recyclers and assemblers will also be fun once conveyors arrive.

    But holding down the left mouse button a minute just to weld a single piece of heavy armor??? WTF
     
  19. Ash87 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,977
    I like the build times

    Weld times should probably have a slider to adjust the time... but don't just say that it's horrible and that it should change... Your experience is no more relevant than mine.
     
  20. Ernir Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    10
    If you could make small r2d2 robots that walks behind you and weld the block you put out then it would be fine. No problemos ^^
     
  21. Ash87 Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,977
    In all seriousness, after programming is a thing, simple utility robots that do what you ask them to do with programming would be a cool addition.
     
  22. ctiberious Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    196
    I'm trying to upgrade the large red ship from using light armor to heavy. After literally falling asleep welding, I edited my cubeblock.cbc file so that heavy armor blocks that half the usual time. It still feels like "work" to put a large heavy armor block together, but it's not so mind numbing. Will likely do something similar with solar panels.
     
  23. LFCavalcanti Senior Engineer

    Messages:
    1,378
    I'm up to have some "upgraded" tools to optimize welding time. Like small ship welder, a backpack welder or something like that.
     
  24. dispair Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    252
    My single player game is astroids, so just the survival ship to start with, I have a large ship for a base , so I can move my refining operations as I deplete rocks of their ore. The only problem I had was getting the platinum to make a Large reactor. Right now I use several small thrusters, but that's the next phase. The crew part has a "ceiling" but the rear has a small heavy armor deck to support my mining ship. My survival ship has a grav gen and a large funnel on the top to collect rocks, helps reduce lag too. I can almost mine faster with a hand drill and a funnel than with my 4 drill rig.
    good luck
     
  25. theonetruetom Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    7
    I built a "tugboat" ship, designed specifically to grab the cargo ships that have warheads in front of the forward-facing thrusters. 2 large reactors, 10 large thrusters (stopping those things within seconds is now super easy) and about 15 smaller thrusters for up/down control. I originally got the resources by cannibalizing the cargo ships I could steal successfully and bring to my boneyard. Lemme tell you, building a large ship in survival is several things; easy it ain't. It took me a total of about 15 hours from planning to nabbing my first ship with it, including refinements to the design (10 large thrusters burn through fuel really fast, so put a refinery on it and carry extra uranium) and about 3 military ships worth of steel plating. Also, if you're going to do what I did, I'd highly suggest building a small ship attached to it with a bunch of solar panels and a beacon so you can find it if it runs out of gas, which it more than likely will.

    Also, building a small ship with basically a reactor, some lights, some landing gear, a cargo container, and a drill is a good idea. Resource harvesting isn't difficult for me anymore.
     
  26. metzyn Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    31
    While welding up my first 1.7+ million kg large ship, I watched a lot of Netflix. Since it took me about 3 weeks to complete, I had to have something going on in the background or I'd go insane. I just controlled myself with WASD as usual, and welded with left Control so I could use just one hand to weld up.
     
  27. Krakanu Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    45
    If you think the welding is bad, check-out this mod: http://forums.keenswh.com/post/faster-welding-armor-blocks-6855963 It makes welding large light armor blocks faster (8 seconds down to 2).

    It's also a very simple edit if you wish to mod the weld time yourself. I just opened up CubeBlocks.sbc in notepad++ and changed the welding times for a few blocks that the original mod didn't change (like interior walls). You could also modify recipes pretty easily this way but I think they're all fairly reasonable currently.

    If a more powerful welder is ever added I'll probably change it back, but this makes building space stations/large ships much more tolerable. I got SO MUCH more done when I changed this! I don't mind long weld times for big things like refineries, but for blocks that are "spammed" this is a must.
     
  28. Spanners Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    79
    I've played in survival for a few weeks now, and built a large ship out of heavy armor... and yep - tedium.

    I had a great feeling of achievement when I finished my ship, but honestly it kind of burnt me out of the game for a few days afterwards :p I kind of feel we need some sort of welding speed upgrade to work towards in survival (or ship mountable welding equipment which works faster)


    I think i'll mod the files as you suggest :p I don't mind working to get my materials and mine, but honestly - it took about 30 hours of solid welding to build my ship (that's an estimate it was probably more!)
     
  29. ReynoldsXD Trainee Engineer

    Messages:
    13
    There is a large disconnect here.

    Some players with oodles of time biasing versus those who have less time to invest.
    Just read some of your comments. Turn on the tv on the side? Is that tge point of the game? To be a tedious bore?


    This is a game. As all games of the explore, build, survive genre, this game needs balance.

    Equipment needs to be upgradeable and be more varied.
    Being able to produce better equipment is one of the mainstays of the genre.
    Advanced welders and grinders.
    A welding shotgun, welding several block at once. Equally a mas grinder. . .
    Such equipment for small ships so players can create workbee ship to use to build big projects. . .

    The options are endless and yet you lot sit here and advocate for players being forced to weld block for block for hours and days.

    The welding and grinding currently is the number one turnoff this game has.
    Just because you have convinced yourself this is good the way it is should not prevent you from seeing the reality of things.

    Welding needs to become a part of the game that is not KILLING the GAME aspect.


    Upgrading the players equipment is the way here. invest effort in getting better tools. profit. and avoid death. . .
     
  30. Fixer Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    168
    I would like to see the build time of stuff be lowered, but keep the break-down time. Breaking down a ship should take a while, especially heavy armor (it is made hard to break, after all). However, build time is very annoying and rather excessive.
     
Thread Status:
This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.