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Natural gravity radius and jump drives.

Discussion in 'Balancing' started by VilniusNastavnik, Nov 21, 2015.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. VilniusNastavnik Apprentice Engineer

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    276
    So, playing round after the planets were released and found planets to be a rather large annoyance rather than the praise everyone is giving them. Namely the inability to engage jump drives whilst in natural gravity and thus having to override all forward engines and go get a drink and bite to eat whilst waiting for the ship to finally get past the 50,000 m mark to engage my jump drive.

    I understand the whole sci fi logic, engage a jump drive within atmosphere could ignite it and all that.. so enable jump drives to engage after you leave the atmosphere. 50,000 m is a long way to go at 104 m/s. I reckon, get out of the statosphere (10km ish) and then enable them.

    Once you break that ozone layer you should have no concern over igniting the atmosphere.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2015
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  2. 4hrjkg Trainee Engineer

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    98
    i think that will allows you to escape planets without hydrogen (just atmo+ion) on pretty large ship, which can't beat gravity with ion's,
    and i don't think that good or realistic, i probably will write how implement jumpdrive alternative,
    i.e. allow to fly with any velocity while far enough from any object, that allows ships with powerful propellant based engines escape gravity well faster (using a lot of propellant of course).
    posted http://forums.keenswh.com/threads/no-speed-limit-while-no-one-around-jump-drive-alternative.7374725/
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2015
  3. tech_op2000 Trainee Engineer

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    21
    I will second that getting from the surface of a planet to space to engage your jump drive takes WAY TOO LONG. I just keep hoping they increase the cosmic speed limit. I think it would be pretty cool if using a jump drive in atmosphere near the surface or objects caused extensive damage to the area, But I understand the reasoning for not allowing them to be used in atmosphere. I dont understand the in gravity part though. It shouldnt be a problem near a moon. I guess my suggestion would be to decrease the distance from the surface to space.
     
  4. Jas Apprentice Engineer

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    443
    yhea, to be honest, 41,000m (41Km) gravity field over surface is too much in my opinion for a 120Km diameter planet, that means gravity field altitude is 1/3 of the planet diameter, i think should be a lot better with like 1/5 or 1/6 of that, so something like an half of the actual field altitude: around 20Km field altitude should be nice for a 120km full sized planet.
     
  5. cataractus Apprentice Engineer

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    112
    The diameter of the Earth is approx 12 700 km.
    To "escape" gravity, you have to fly away from the surface of the Earth at a distance of approx 31 800 km...
    This gives 2.5/1 IRL!

    I like the way it is now in SE. 6 minutes of flight has nice "realism vs fun" ratio. So, with bigger max speed, natural gravity should have longer range.
     
  6. Jas Apprentice Engineer

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    443
    well, as Newton Law explain gravity fields are infinite in theoty but it is not this to discuss, simply 6min can be too much so a bit lower altitude to reach 0G can be good, but, is 2.5/1 the max allowed ratio to "realism vs fun"?
     
  7. cataractus Apprentice Engineer

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    112
    Yes, infinite but at some point negligible :)
    There is no max allowed ratio for "realism vs. fun". :) 2.5/1 its a simplified realistic value for earth-like planet. With max speed cap it will be terrible if you need to fly ~300km to get out from gravity range. Definitely, distance will be realistic but it be no fun at all. :p

    I like the way it is now. 6 minutes of flight its not long but gives some challenge (more in multiplayer). 40km its still in range of antennas so there is no problem to build a communication relay on boundary of gravity field.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Jas Apprentice Engineer

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    443
    ok you convinced me, after all, there are speed mods that even add some risk :)
     
  9. Ulfsark Master Engineer

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    3,057
    I think it was done mostly so that you dont jump INTO a gravity well, and then have no chance of escape. Imagine you have your ion powered mother ship, go to a jump to a planet, and suddenly, you're space trash.
     
  10. Jas Apprentice Engineer

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    443
    well, i just realized Laser Antennas are going to be useless since they have a max range of 40Km (Large) and even more useless whit the 20Km range of dmall grid!
    i hope they increase the range ir add the DarthBiomech's mods (the 2 long range dishes custom laser antennas)
     
  11. Arcturus Senior Engineer

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    1,649
    Funny enough, I actually ran into this situation. My very lightly ion thrust jump-ship appeared at a waypoint above the moon, and started to fall. I think the ship was long enough that when the jump drive/grid origin appeared at the waypoint outside of the natural gravity, some of the ship might have been inside the field. Regardless, I have since moved the waypoint further out.

    There was a few tense moments, but I was able to escape the pull. One small thruster was not enough to slow the fall, but turning the ship at an odd angle so I could use three thrusters from different directions on override did work.

    If falling with no ability to escape, I recommend attempting to dump mass (be it cargo or parts of the hull) until you do have the TWR to hover/escape.
     
  12. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    4,682
    You can escape the atmosphere with just ions and atmospherics. However, the ions will only work at 30% efficiency down at planet level. In the upper atmosphere, you have to push the dead-weight of your atmospherics.

    You have to use A LOT of ion thrusters relative to mass to exit. However, even at 30% efficiency, they still offer a decent ratio of lift when on the surface, so it's even possible to skip the atmospheric AND hydrogen thrusters all together if you are in a low mass ship. But I find that if you stack the ions and the atmospherics the right way, you can get even a heavy ship to perform nicely at the surface and still have enough thrust to escape the atmosphere.

    At around 10,000 meters, there's a dead spot where the atmospherics stop working and the ions are still considerably weak. If you can make it past that barrier, you're good to go.
     
Thread Status:
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