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Nebula as a resource?

Discussion in 'Suggestions and Feedback' started by CmdSp4rky, May 20, 2015.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. CmdSp4rky Trainee Engineer

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    Hi there! Just had the idea of Nebula as a source of resources. For example as a source of different kinds of Plasma and Gas wich could be used in powering reactors or thusters (as well as weapon systems maybe?)
    You would be gathering the resources through special collectors that work with magnetism(?)(for the realism) and then would be stored in either the normal containers to make the storing simpler or in special tanks that also work with magnetism(?)(for the realism).

    Also the nebula would be rare (because they are pretty rare in reality) and people would need to fly around to find them wich would make it interesting to see how powerfull thrusters or reactors would be with the plasma or gas you could harvest.

    I know that this idea is not perfect and i also don't know how hard it would be to make something like that nebula, so please if anyone as ideas to perfect this idea or suggestion in any usefull kind please tell me. :) I also know this sure all sounds like a big thing to do but hey its a suggestion and idea so please be kind in that point. :)

    (p.s. sry for my bad english)
     
  2. EternityTide Senior Engineer

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    1,950
    It's a great concept, only it doesn't work - nebulae are diffuse, incredibly diffuse, our solar system is denser than the densest nebula. Additionally, magnetism only affects charged particles- uncharged elements would fly straight past your magnetic scoops, meaning you would make an 80-90% loss.
    Solar wind scoops might work though
     
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  3. CmdSp4rky Trainee Engineer

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    Yea i see the problem with the diffuse and also with the megetism, to the magnetism any idea thats better? :D
    to the diffuse, why not simply make them cloudy.. hm i dont realy have a solution to this yet let me think about this a bit, also i'm no programmer so i wont come up with a good solution for that I'm sorry. But thats why i asked for any ideas :) Thank you for youre answere!
     
  4. EternityTide Senior Engineer

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    1,950
    You cannot make the nebulae any denser. Nebulae which are as dense as that don't last very long because they are typically the precursor to star formation. Old nebulae, which have remained relatively constant in density, exist because the gravitational and electrostatic forces are too weak to draw the cloud together to form a star, hence, they stay as a gas cloud. If you were in a nebula, it would not be like standing in clouds like here on Earth. Nebulae are much less dense than that. The only reason you see nebulae is because the gases get ionised by nearby stars and release light, and as you get further away from a nebula, the outline of this light emitting cloud gets clearer. Close up, the space would seem empty.

    Regarding magnetic scoops, these can be used for solar wind. The sun burns up billions of tonnes of hydrogen per second, and when it does that, it produces lots of energy and charged particles. As the particles fight their way to the surface, the lose some of their energy and become less energetic (this is why gamma rays are not emitted from the sun, even though gamma rays are produced in its core due to the fusion process). When the reach the out layer of the sun, they are blasted out into space, either as solar flares, coronal mass ejections or just background emission form the sun.
    Solar wind is composed of protons, electrons and alpha particles for the large part. Magnetic scoops would allow you to harvest the helium and hydrogen being emitted from the suns surface, and would allow you to fuel such devices as fusion reactors.
    Some trace elements like lithium, boron and carbon might be found on the stellar wind, but because the sun is a main sequence star, it has not reached the point in its life-cycle yet when it produces heavier elements in any major quantity.
     
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  5. CmdSp4rky Trainee Engineer

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    sry I'm talking about Nebulea with are the remains of suns, does this any diffrence? (you seem to know lot more then me about something like that.
    also the idea with solar winds is also very interesting but i guess it would be hard or even unpossible to that close to a sun to effectivly harvest stuff?
    I also think the sun we are playing with don't need to be our sun, theoreticly it could be any sun.. well exept some kinds like white dwars or stuff like that.
     
  6. EternityTide Senior Engineer

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    1,950
    This does make a difference. It also depends entirely on what type of sun it was. Our sun, in several billion years time, will die, and become a white dwarf surrounded by a planetary nebula, unfortunately you would only find light elements present in such a nebula. A supernova, on the other hand, would provide the heavy elements you need, but they are more rare, and are significantly more spread out by the explosive death of the parent star.
    But as I said earlier, the density of most nebulae is about 100-10,000 particles [citation needed :D] per cm³, this is significantly less than the average density of our solar system, which is pretty empty from our perspective.
    The star in SE matches most of the attributes of a main sequence star (the default skybox is the one I am talking about), and in 2077, I highly doubt we will have achieved interstellar travel.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2015
  7. SenorZorros Master Engineer

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    there is a reason we have the celestial bodies thread...
     
  8. EternityTide Senior Engineer

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    1,950
    A nebula isn't really a celestial body, though is it? it's more like an amorphous interstellar structure. A body implies a single entity, a nebula is a conglomeration of entities.
     
  9. SenorZorros Master Engineer

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    7,063
    accordign to wikipedia it's an astronomical object. also the fact of the matter is that being a celestial body does not mean it's a single object. groups of objects are allowed. I believe a celestial body more or less is everything we have given a name.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomical_object
     
  10. EternityTide Senior Engineer

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    1,950
    I didn't say it wasn't an astronomical object, I just said it wasn't a celestial body :D
    to quote from your own source:
    A nebula is not really a single cohesive structure, is it?
    This is just me being pedantic, I'm not really being all that serious with it.
     
  11. SenorZorros Master Engineer

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    7,063
    it is bound by gravity. also it is a single structure. it just happend to be gaseous instead of solid or liquid.
     
  12. CmdSp4rky Trainee Engineer

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    1. Sry as i mentioned above my english isnt the best because its not my mother tongue
    2. Even if i would have known what celestial bodies mean, i think my idea would have ended up forgoten or overseen(don't know)
    3. Next time you could say it a lillte bit more friendly, just saying.
     
  13. CmdSp4rky Trainee Engineer

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    Anyway, youre right, its not solid, and its an object floating in space. Maybe this should been posted in the celestial bodies theart but now it's here so its to late, any idea of how to make such an object workable or other ideas, like the solar winds?
    The devs could also simply increase the density of nebulae to make it work(if they would notice this idea or if they would want to add it or if it would be possible anyway), not very close to reality but we're flying with thrusters powerd by electricity( not sure this works).
     
  14. EternityTide Senior Engineer

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    1,950
    This is SenorZorros being friendly. He's Dutch, they go straight to the point and no messing around, some people interpret that as being rude. There are much worse people on this forum than your local, fluffy Senor.
    Look up "ion thruster", they are electrically powered propulsion systems which already exist and are currently used on board multiple satellites:
    [​IMG]
     
  15. CmdSp4rky Trainee Engineer

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    Ah ok, I'm new here so didn't know that :)
    Also i can see very clearly they work now :D Thy for the pic. :p
     
  16. Kuu Lightwing Senior Engineer

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    1,503
    Ion thrusters
    1. Use propellant.
    2. Produce very little amount of thrust.
    Let's look at Dawn spacecraft. Its wet mass is 1,240kg out of which 425kg is the propellant mass, which is quite significant - you can't just handwave that thrusters store enough propellant somewhere. Granted, Dawn has more than 10,000m/s of delta-V, but given the game mechanics, it would not take much time to expend all that since ships in SE use thrusters very often. Also, those three thrusters of the craft produce stunning 90 mN of thrust (that's milinewtons), so what we have in SE has almost nothing common with ion thrusters barring blue exhaust and electricity requirement.
     
  17. EternityTide Senior Engineer

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    1,950
    http://forums.keenswh.com/threads/fuelled-thrusers.7356982/
    wrong topic mate, go elsewhere if you want to discuss ion thrusters, I was simply giving an explanation to @CmdSp4rky as to what they most likely are. Additionally, we are talking a good 50-60 years in the future, it's not out of the realms of possibility for a high thrust ion engine to be concieved that use a long lasting solid propellant.
    Go vent your frustrations on that thread I linked you to.
     
  18. Kuu Lightwing Senior Engineer

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    1,503
    Oh, that's just a couple of facts that indicate that these thrusters aren't even close to any known ion thrusters (or any other electric engine). Any speculation about what we will have in 60 years is just a speculation.
     
  19. EternityTide Senior Engineer

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    1,950
    And I'm sure you are an aerospace engineer with decades of experience under your belt, and know exactly what you are talking about when it comes to space-based propulasion systems. Sure, those are facts concerning current generation ion thrusters... and Dawn is over 8 years old.
    But as I said, you're on the the wrong thread. You want to talk about ion thrusters, go to taht thread I linked you to.
     
  20. SenorZorros Master Engineer

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    7,063
    I must admit I was rather short-off.
     
  21. CmdSp4rky Trainee Engineer

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    It's ok. I'd like to know what you think about the whole idea :)
     
  22. SenorZorros Master Engineer

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    7,063
    I have to admit I don't like it because nebula don't existin the solar system and are extremely faint.if you want gas you would be better of evaporating solids or sucking up gas giants.
     
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