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Need a clue with buffs n stuff

Discussion in 'General' started by boromir, May 26, 2018.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. boromir Apprentice Engineer

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    163
    So I've been tooling around with the new food system (early game) Survival only in both DS and single player and I'm noticing some quirks - or I'm confused how to get this to work right. I also stop/restarted/repeated the 0.6.3 release video to try to understand but still can't get it.

    1) How do I get the buffs to show up?
    I've focused mostly on Salad with also just basic food elements (berries, mushrooms), and haven't seen any buffs show up. Even if I eat into beyond full it won't extend the bar into the overeating area. I have seen the hunger alert but that's all. With no buffs there's no vigor, no vigor no extra fun!!
    2) Starving doesn't hurt my health anymore?
    So when I'm starving, I don't lose any health? At all? Not even slowly? I can understand standing in place or AFK shouldn't lower my hunger but once I'm starving, shouldn't I lose health a little at a time? I thought this was an immersive element in the game.
    3) In DS, I don't respawn at my bed anymore.
    I thought this was really cool. So now the claimed bed is only used when I die. That's it, right? Now I respawn where I left the game (not dieing). I liked the idea of always respawning at my bed everytime but returning to bed before leaving is no problem - more immersive. :)
    4) In DS, I can't get Fast Travel to say it's enabled.
    Adjusting the configuration for the server doesn't ever enable the Fast Travel (tried several times). It's still disabled. I created the world with Fast Travel disabled, do I have to recreate the world to get the option to enable the Fast Travel and perhaps turn it off and back on again later? Does Fast Travel depend on any other configuration settings to enable? It should work in Survival as it did for Xoc and Deepflame in the release video.

    I appreciate any help!
     
  2. boromir Apprentice Engineer

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    163
    Ok, so I solved the problem with (4). In this particular instance of the DS (not on my LAN (on my LAN it was working) but using GameServers.com), the MedievalEngineers-Dedicated.cfg file settings were not completely being copied into the save game's sandbox.sbc file. I've read elsewhere on the forums that the .SBC file is the official copy which overrides the .CFG file anyway? The two settings that were not being copied correctly into the .SBC file from the .CFG file was the <EnableFastTravel /> and <MaximumBots /> settings which I had changed both (I set the bots to 20).

    Oddly, I haven't seen ANY Barbarians, at all, after about 4 hrs in-game time. We've seen a large number of deer though. So it seems the 20 is taking effect but wasn't correct in the .SBC file? Odd.

    Anyway, the Fast Travel is enabled now, so I'm good on that one. Is the Vigor enabled by a completed research?

    Still stumped on (1), (2), and (3).
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
  3. Yurets Trainee Engineer

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    56
    1) You should see a silver line just in the end of your health and stamina bars - this is the amount by which health and stamina will be increased. So, basically, your health and stamina bars should get longer and longer as game progresses.

    Buffs are different - some food (sandwiches) gives you buff. It will be shown under your stats as a square with something.

    2) Yes, hunger doesn't kill you. But I guess health should decrease if it was increased before.
     
  4. Mirek Apprentice Engineer

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    113
    Salad doesnt give any buffs nor does bread. some of the more advanced foods do.
    Yeah that thing that hunger doesnt kill you, is completely ridiculous, and i realy do not understand why they did that.
    I still normaly respawn in my bed, so maybe problem is in your settings or something.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. CptTwinkie ME Asst. Producer Staff

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    4,386
    I made this nice page to explain the system :D
    http://www.medievalengineerswiki.com/index.php?title=Stats


    I agree with you that the buffs system is not obvious from the interface. However, I also agree with the development team that, a new player isn't likely to open the game and search for information about buffs. If you spend some time playing you'll encounter buffs and vigor changes before long. The function of vigor isn't exactly clear but not knowing how it works won't hinder game-play significantly. We will ideally get more information in the game at some point.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. boromir Apprentice Engineer

    Messages:
    163
    Thank you @CptTwinkie that's helpful. Let me clarify what I'm experiencing with (1) - I'm sorry, I misspoke in the OP:

    When I eat to full, I can eat beyond full with a Salad and it even extends the bar beyond the full point. But I never see the silver line/bar appear for the Stamina and the Health bars when doing that. In the release video with Deepflame and Xocliw they ate a Salad beyond full and the silver bars appeared for their Health and Stamina. I can understand why Salad wouldn't make you feel vigorous for some people, but that's what their game did (they gained silver bars and vigor with a Salad). IRL, I guess I feel vigorous with a Salad as a meal. ;) Anyway, I'll try eating different foods to see if I can get that to go.

    Also, when I get down to no food, I don't remember if I was seeing the Hungry or Starvation icon (I was seeing one of them). I was, however, seeing the effects of the starvation - all except the health damage. A single left-pointing arrow on health bar appeared sometimes and sometimes there wasn't one. In either case, my health bar never went down from 100% healthy unless I injured myself. My stamina was inhibited in both directions (quickly drained and recharged slowly) and my build speed was slow. I never had any silver bars so there was no negative vigor icon.

    I also haven't seen the Well Fed icon, even when overeating (the wiki article isn't quite clear on that - I'm not hungry whenever I don't have the hungry icon?). I've also seen the Exhausted icon, but the effects don't seem right. The only effects are the sound of my walking goes away, it's just silent, and I cannot run. It would be nice if it forced me into "irreversable" Walk mode (CapsLock) and then turned that off after the exhausted icon disappears.


    Moreover, one thing I would like to see again when starving is actual health damage. The wiki article says that's supposed to happen so that might be a bug. I think that's the highest on my wishlist. Otherwise I really like the new stats system. To be honest, I think Deepflame and Xocliw did a pretty good job briefly explaining a complicated stats system on the video. There's a lot to it.

    @CptTwinkie, are there icons missing from your wiki article - more than just the Exhausted icon? It would be nice to read about those too if so. Also, it would be nice to see a brief explanation of the horizontal arrows on the the 3 bars in the wiki article. Do they show the net effect of all buffs and actions occurring to the character? Very nice write-up otherwise!
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
  7. CptTwinkie ME Asst. Producer Staff

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    4,386
    Vigor got a slight rebalance around the time of release. I'm not sure about the timing exactly because it didn't make it into the change log. It was mostly some small number tweaks but also salads do not increase vigor. http://www.medievalengineerswiki.com/index.php?title=Salad

    The health loss from starvation happens slowly through vigor loss. As the bar shortens it decreases your maximum health. That's what I meant about vigor not being obvious. The only difference is the maximum for each stat and since it happens slowly it goes unnoticed.

    We're not sure about the loss of sound. We'll have to check on it. It's forcing you to walk instead of run (default) so it may be some missing material definition for walking.

    You get the well fed icon after eating a good meal (one that increases vigor). You get the hungry icon when your food bar moves below a certain number.

    I'm not sure why exhausted didn't make it into the guide. We have several effects made that aren't being used. It's not easy to tell which ones are used because they may be enabled but simply not used by anything. I'll have to check it again and add it. EDIT: Added it.

    The horizontal arrows are covered briefly in http://www.medievalengineerswiki.com/index.php?title=Stats#Changes. They just show rate of change.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
  8. boromir Apprentice Engineer

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    163
    I am seeing the difference between the Starving icon and the Hungry icon and they seem to be appearing at the correct times. I like the rumbly tummy sound effect when starving. :tu: So just so I understand (and to confirm what @Yurets and @Mirek said), the only effect of being starved is damage to maximum health? So you wouldn't be able to ever die from starvation? Deepflame said something like that in a situation of going AFK? This is a big change from pre-0.6.3. I'm not sure I really like that: with all the realism added to the Stat System, it seems this would have been something to keep.

    "Change arrows" - found it. Thank you.

    To be clear on the Exhausted: when I'm exhausted from sprinting, it's taking me down to run and killing the sound effect of running. Which isn't the same as walk given by the default mode through <CapsLock>. So there's not much of a impact from exhaustion - other than not being able to sprint and waiting to hear the running again when the effect expires. It seems exhaustion should be more punishing than just that. Like taking you down to walk for the duration of the exhaustion. That's how I feel when I'm exhausted from sprinting. If you're not exhausted, you can run anytime in the game and that's not a problem.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
  9. Mirek Apprentice Engineer

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    113
    YEah You cant die.
    The problem is Before the starwation effect was too fast and there wasnt enough warning, Happend to me severeal times that i didnt notice that the character is starving, or i was AFK for a moment and it died from hunger. I guess people complained about it, and keen instead of adjusting it just removed it. Lot of development studios are choosing that approach lately.
    There is the unfortunate trend that says, games have to be "fun and not work"
    Wich actually means, that most of the games are turned to Dumb arcades with no chalenge at all.
    In case of ME it turnes the game to simple castlebuilder. It is a nice passtime, i like building castles, but it is not what i expected after i read the description in steam store.
    Unfortunatelly as NERFy as this game is, it is still best voxel builder game you can get , so we have to either wait for something better to appear, or try to persuade the devs to stear the development towards smewhat more chalenging and therefore more enjoyable game.

    Sense of acomplishment! Thats what i mis here. The feeling that i learned something that was hard to learn and iam starting to be good at it. Games Like Kerbal Spaceprogram, orbiter, talos principle or Mount and Blade have it, Old RPGs had it, games like Arma 3 can get it with mods, but the survival games usually lacks it. Most of them are focust just to quickly obtain gear and go fight other playres,or just digging holes and building hauses.
     
  10. CptTwinkie ME Asst. Producer Staff

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    4,386
    If you guys want starvation back then you should probably give feedback more often. We made the change because we got nearly unanimous feedback saying that people were rage-quitting and refunding the game because of starvation. There were complaints about starving because you had to spend all of your time scavenging so you couldn't play the game. We know that's not even close to true but it was happening enough that it was costing us reputation and sales. We could never find any reason why so many people were starving to death. They just couldn't play the game properly, and this is after we forced the cooking tutorial. So it became a question of change it and retain these players or keep it and do not. There was no significant positive feedback on starvation at all. In fact, many players were refusing to eat, finding it easier to respawn than to feed their character.
     
  11. Burstar Apprentice Engineer

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    374
    Wait, you can get refunds?
     
  12. Mirek Apprentice Engineer

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    @CptTwinkie
    I started to play ME more often just recently i played just about few hours in survival before the player reborn update, i havent any complaynts about the food system back then so i didnt need to give any feedback. As i was more concerned about learning the possibilities and limitations of the game.
    Iam not aware of any vote on starvation or that it was even discussed.
    I really doubt majority of people would ask for complete removal of the starvation. I would gues that they wanted it changed, it wasnt perfect as i stated before, but instead of changing it you just removed it.
    Iam still not familliar with all the possibilities and limitations of the game as i for example didnt yet get to the mechanical stuff, and so far only build one simple cart from the cart quest (it didnt work really well). So i gues there is lot more stuff i am going to dislike in the game, and hopefuly a lot of stuff that iam going to like.
    Iam not going for refund either way, if i wont like it after i explore it i wil just abandon it and wait for its finished version as i did with Space engineers.
     
  13. boromir Apprentice Engineer

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    163
    Wow, ok. I like that when I respawn from exiting normally, it brings me back to the hunger level I left at (in DS). That's a big difference so that sorta makes up for the removal of hunger damage.

    That'sactually amazing people were raging at dieing from starvation. The red flashing screen seems pretty annoying to me to do something about it. Let alone they should've just been playing in Creative if they didn't like dieing. There was plenty of time to build without worrying about food. Even more so now with the adjusted stat system.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
  14. Yurets Trainee Engineer

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    56
    Maybe there should be a compromise. Like in one mod for Minecraft (as I recently found out), where starvation decreases maximum health (as it is right now in ME), but so extremely, that when on minimum even a single lightest hit kills you :D
     
  15. CptTwinkie ME Asst. Producer Staff

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    The stats system is fully moddable. You could add health reduction to starvation quite easily.
     
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  16. boromir Apprentice Engineer

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    163
    @CptTwinkie , is this normal behavior or was this changed so that players don't respawn in their bed anymore when exiting the game normally? If it wasn't changed what setting would adjust this? I'm guessing I've got something configured wrong. Server setting?
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
  17. CptTwinkie ME Asst. Producer Staff

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    4,386
    When you rejoin the game you should spawn in the same location. The exception to this is if the location becomes unavailable for some reason. In this case you will have to spawn somewhere else. My guess is that your bed is your only safe spawn point so you are being redirected there.
     
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