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Need a reason to return to the planet...

Discussion in 'General' started by Morloc, Mar 1, 2016.

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This last post in this thread was made more than 31 days old.
  1. Morloc Apprentice Engineer

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    The planet was "nice" looking. I spent all my efforts to leave it (and its critters and buggyness) behind and am now in space. I can't really think of a reason to return to any planet...other than sight-seeing.

    They're a good source of ice, but you waste a lot of ice landing, and frankly, asteroids have enough if you're still using hydrogen. It seems such a waste to have them in game, yet so ultimately useless.

    A Survival resource found only on planets?
    Geothermal power planets (huge energy)?
    Random crashed ships/bases with fun stuff?
    I dunno...

    -Morloc
     
    • Agree Agree x 12
  2. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

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    2,863
    I posted similar experiences. Basically, you want to get off as soon as possible and never go back.

    I'm not crazy about planet specific resources simply because then you HAVE to go back, it should be incentivized not mandatory.

    One thing that at least the moons are great for is ice mining to fuel major H2 ships.
     
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  3. StuffYouFear Apprentice Engineer

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    416
    I always return to the planets to help bring democracy and freedom to all the people suffering under the harsh dictatorship of tyarent rule from the so called "Pirates" with as many guns as possible. Any who wish to join me in liberating people with force please feel free to fill out a recruitment application for the "Marica!!!" Corporation.
     
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  4. Bruce LeedleLeedleLeedleLee Junior Engineer

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    You left the fridge on your planet wide open
     
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  5. StuffYouFear Apprentice Engineer

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    416
    Atlast, a reasonable explanation as to why all the water on earth is frozen.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2016
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  6. Morloc Apprentice Engineer

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    I was eaten by green spiders on a moon. I'd never seen the green ones before, so that was cool. I guess.


    -Morloc
     
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  7. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

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    Are there bugs on Europa? That's currently the best source of ice.
     
  8. Morloc Apprentice Engineer

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    I'm not sure...this one was red and was in "orbit" around the Alien World planet.


    -Morloc
     
  9. Bahroth Apprentice Engineer

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    One thing I would mention that seems noteworthy, sometimes in space it can be hard to find certain resources.
    A common ore that I seem to rarely find is Nickel, but on planets/moons its relatively common.

    I guess if you don't take to pirating the pirates, planets can be an alright source for select resources.
     
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  10. noname42 Trainee Engineer

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    95
    Space bugs are only on Titan and alien planet.
     
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  11. Steelpanther Apprentice Engineer

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    I use planets as a backdrop and reference point only. They add nothing entertaining to me.
     
  12. DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    Now days it seems that people constantly need a cookie to want to do something. It can never be on their own accord.

    -Captain Blondebeard
     
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  13. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

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    2,818
    While I personally find building stuff for planets a challenge that's its own reward, I do actually agree that they could use some more attached game mechanics. They're very very pretty, which is attractive for primarily creative, aesthetic-based players like me, but game-mechanic wise there really isn't a whole lot of reason to go back once you make it to the moon. Even something like making organic matter necessary to make oxygen farms and/or medical components would help.
     
  14. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    4,841
    Return to planets...
    Crush your enemies.
    See them driven before you.
    Hear the lamentations of their women.

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    And as tank pointed out, you place a earth specific item on the planet the want for something becomes a need.

    And then team space comes along and says we need a new resource to go back into space.

    -Captain Blondebeard
     
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  16. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

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    Team Space already has a resource that forces you into space. Giving planets a resource that forces you to spend some time on them isn't a bad thing. :p
     
  17. Daddsterc0347 Trainee Engineer

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    Conan the Musical!
     
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  18. Stardriver907 Master Engineer

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    3,174
    At the height of the planet hype there was a thread (several, actually) where the subject was essentially, "What're you going to do when we get planets?". People were going to build massive sprawling mining facilities, impenetrable underground fortresses, and cities. I said back then that six months after planets released the shine will wear off and only new players would spend any time there. When I get my server going, that is where I expect to find new players. I suspect anyone that has spent more than a day of game time will either be in space or desperate to get there.

    If you want a reason to return to a planet, ask the people that insisted they be in the game.

    I'm not aware of every game ever made, but I believe Space Engineers is the first space game where you are actually in space and not confined to a ship or facility. Most space games actually take place on planets and ships are just a convenient method of getting from planet to planet but you never actually spend any time in space unless there's some sort of battle. People saw SE and liked it but said, "Where are the planets? We need planets to go to because that's how it works."
     
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  19. Roader Frost Trainee Engineer

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    7
    Imagine: You are standing on the roof of your newly build command center... located on the shiny surface of the ice moon (Europa)... and enjoying the scenic overlook of that red planet (Mars) that lies before you.
    Well... and now just fly to the moon, choose the spot and start building that command center already :)
     
  20. DDP-158 Master Engineer

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    If you don't plan on building ions you aren't forced into space. Hell, you can still get by just fine on rockets.
    However, medbays are a bit of a necessity and needig organic material for them does force you to a planet. If I play with no planets I'm fucked.

    -Captain Blondebeard
     
  21. Ronin1973 Master Engineer

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    4,841
    There have been a few threads regarding the advantages of building on planets. The only advantage is not needing to refuel your personal oxygen tank.

    However, the disadvantages of building and mining in gravity far outweigh that. Not all resources are present on planets, so you will have to travel off of the planet in order to collect things like platinum.
    There are also the disadvantages of jihad dogs and possibly spiders if those are left on.

    Cargo and encounter ships rain from the sky since that hasn't been resolved.

    Creating planet-only resources is a bad idea because it breaks games that do not involve planets.

    The only viable advantage that I can think of is to give players bonuses in ore processing times and extraction ratios. If these numbers were doubled on atmospheric planets and maybe a 50% bonus on non-atmospheres (like moons), that would give reason to haul ore back to planets for processing. This wouldn't break the game for non-planetary worlds either and would be easy to implement.

    You could also scale the bonus according to the natural gravity present, giving the alien world an even higher advantage since there are usually spiders present as well as higher gravity equals higher difficulty.

    Just my ramblings.
     
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  22. Neffarion Apprentice Engineer

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    126
    Well i actually like planets for bases. Gravity and large voxel land makes enemy more predictable to defend
     
  23. noxLP Junior Engineer

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    In fact, i don't need a reason to play in planets, planets are the reason, you know, they're planets, they're huge, with biomes and gravity, they're pretty, and basically they are a change instead of being aaaaaall the time in space darkness.
    And yeah, i'm building a massive mining platform, a mobile mining platform, and probably i'll end building a space elevator.

    The problem is that you see "problems" (not speaking of bugs, of course, bugs are bugs and are bad) and i see enjoyable challenges that i have to surpass, instead of being in space seeing the trillions of ores, ingots and components that i can easily mine with the same gameplay that i've been using since the beginning, one of them, mining, exploration, dismantle ships, whatever.
    You know, i get bored of games pretty quickly, i suspect that's because of all the years gaming, but anyway, with 800+ hours playing SE i needed something different, different and huge, so planets are perfect.

    And honestly there's no reason to choose one of them, space OR planets, planets are one more thing you can do in the game, that's all. I'm building a "space" frigate in creative too, but in my survival world i have no intention of going to space yet, i have too much planet to discover yet.
     
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  24. BlackUmbrellas Senior Engineer

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    2,818
    Arbitrary, effectively magical buffs like that are way too game-y.

    Resources unique to planets would be fine, especially if Keen wants to polish and consolidate game progression.
     
  25. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

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    It's fairly clear to me that there has been a half-assed attempt to make the survival game sort of based around the notion that you will spawn on a lander, setup on the planet surface and then progress into space. Hence the fact that the high tier character stuff requires you to move into the asteroid field.

    And I think this is a terrible design. What is especially terrible is that 200 mm missiles requires Pt, which means no missiles until you gank pirate bases or get into space.

    In this context some sort of "back-gression" where space players need to constantly fiddle about on planets for effectively one resource is terribly silly, despite being otherwise totally space based. Especially when the game is called Space Engineers.

    Also, organic material (in the form of aromatic hydrocarbons) should be present in space/on asteroids as well.

    SE is not amenable to the "biome" system where you need to venture to specific biomes in order to get specific resources because it's designed in a totally different way than those biome games - ie it's not loot/crafting based, it's designing based on stuff made from components using a small number of very basic resources - no "collect 25 demon assholes" business in this game. So you shouldn't be doing planet fetch quests for "organics" either. The fact that farming space pirates is the BEST way to get stuff is already bad enough.

    Planets need mechanics to draw players, not location specific demon assholes that need farming. I gave an example of such a mechanic: large scale ice mining for H2 production is a very useful mechanic that draws you to moons. Large scale mining of say U, Mg, Au, Ag (as opposed to small to moderate scale mining in roids) would be a great way to draw players down to planets. Sure they can easily get that stuff elsewhere, but the ability to scale up to large mines around huuuuuge deposits would be a worthwhile trade off. Especially if we ever get some sort of economy.
     
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  26. Ulfsark Master Engineer

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    3,057
    IMO, each planet and moon should have a unique resource that is needed for higher level/tiered items. Just as the hand tools require rarer ores to produce, so should we be able to get diamonds from planet for better tools, titanium from another for better armor, tungsten from another for better weapons, perhaps crystal from another for better electronics, so on and so forth. Have ice used in the refining of ores, or to give a significant boost to the speed by which they are refined. This will create unique resources that can be either fought over, or traded for. If you have a base around a moon that is rich in crystal, mine the crap out of it and offer to trade it off for diamonds and titanium from the players who are stationed over on those planets/moons. As it is now, there is *NO REASON* to go to planets except the novelty of it, and that wears off Mighty McQuickly ...
     
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  27. tankmayvin Senior Engineer

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    2,863
    Biome hopping for demon assholes, fish assholes and then yeti assholes gets boring/tedious equally quickly if there isn't in-between gameplay to keep it lively. Especially when travel isn't fun jumping through obstacles and fighting mobs but staring at a screen for 10-20 minutes and then hitting ship dampers. Or medbay spamming.

    I'd muuuuuch rather planets stay lame/irrelevant for core mechanics than burdening everyone with highly rigid progression that forces you to do a solar system tour.

    Especially shitty for people who don't have all of the planets in their world......
     
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  28. TheTinyMan Trainee Engineer

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    61
    I wasn't particularly active on the forums before planets, but I'll answer this, because I really wanted them in the game, and I'm not sorry now.

    I wanted planets, because planets represent a more interesting engineering challenge, both for terrestrial vehicles and for escaping the planet. I wanted planets because I want to build wheeled vehicles along with the other craft I've been working on, but it seemed silly to pair that with most of the creations I'd made in space. I wanted a different mining experience than "fly between asteroids and gobble them up." Now that I have them, I want planets because they're freakin' gorgeous.

    I don't see why anyone should be encouraged to play with planets if they don't want to, though. I don't want to attack other ships and pillage them for parts. I don't want to have to expect to be engaged by dumb, monotonous enemies attacking my creations. I don't want the sun to try to kill me. None of these sound like engaging engineering challenges, or fun motivations to motivate my architecture, so I'm not going to do them. I would honestly kind of resent it if there was an attempt to incentivize me to activate gameplay elements that I don't enjoy. If meteors left behind some kind of ore that was needed to build some things, or if pirates were the only source of some kind of advanced programming block component, or if the only way to get Starbucks was to raid them from cargo ships.

    So as far as I'm concerned, why not just let people who want a simpler and more direct-to-construction survival experience play in space, and people who like planets play on planets, and people who want to progress from one to the other do that? We don't all need to engage with the game in the same way.
     
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  29. KissSh0t Master Engineer

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    3,548
    They are on a moon too?

    I didn't know this *___*
     
  30. Morloc Apprentice Engineer

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    I did enjoy the change and challenge of a planet, but the difficulty of mining there doesn't feel like an engineering challenge so much as running into the limitations of the game. I gave up on vehicles (to be fair, I think I had really bad terrain where I set up shop) and made the ugliest "thing" of a mining vessel. It looked like the Monarch's flying cocoon and you needed 3 years of training in order to fly it without it tipping over and acting like that animal you get when a giraffe and turtle mate. In the end it did however...work.

    I like some of the suggestions I'm seeing. I think the high-powered geothermal power plants (can only be built on planets and possibly moons) might create a reason to coax you back, but not force you. If KeenCo could make it so that you needed to find and build them on "vents" found randomly on a planet's surface, there's the incentive to explore too.


    -Morloc
     
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